Biggest Wasted Potential?

[MalevolentBite]

anyone who can look at an issue like tis multidimensionally and construct such a list has my compliments. Generally one has to consider the environment. If every talented fighter was great it would be less competative. As it is, a fighter losses any advantage they are coming into the ring against others who are trying to gain every advantage. That means things like age, timing, and factors beyond control affect every fighter and one must ask if any of these factors automatically make someone subject to waster potential.

Zab Judah actually had a great career. he managed to fight for the championship, win it, as many times as fighters like Chisora, who while not having the natural gifts of Judah was in an easier division, so even though both men may not have ascended, Chisora looks like a real Gatti type fighter! while Judah is percieved as lacking. Zab had his weaknesses but also had his chances and gave a good account. I would not say his potential was wasted... Potential has to have a catalyst and fighting in the hardest divisions brings one up against guys who are really able.

Lacy definitely!

Wilder? again, hard to say. Fighting a trilogy against an equally great opponent is an opportunity seldom afforded to heavyweights. Wilder fought a real battle with Fury, as opposed to a lot of great fighters who never got the opportunity. Thing is Wilder being a puncher could be said to be in the fight for all the fights.

Ray Mercer? Had a great career given his relative abilities. Many think he beat Lewis.

The other guys I agree on.

Maybe i believed more in Ray Mercer than most but I honestly believe he had the skillset, chin and power to be the top 3 best heavyweight of the 90s. I still can't believe that Holmes fight and I am a huge Holmes fan. He's my favorite boxer.

Zab had alot of hood in him and me being from the new york tri state area. He always seemed to be in some drama. Zab had it all but he was always hot and cold in big fights. You never know what zab will show up. Zab honestly should be one of greatest but he will never be rated that high ever.

Wilder is on this list because he's hard headed and that's an internal problem he has.

[MalevolentBite]

Zab Judah?

The former undisputed and lineal welterweight champion of the world and 3X super lightweight world titlist?

The hell else did you expect him to do?

I am not going to pick on Zab. I could easily jab at this comment but I am not. I like Zab. He has accomplishments like most of the people on this list. That isn't my point. I believe Zab could had been more and should had a longer reign and peak during his prime years.

It's hard to relate boxing to other sports but Zab Judah is kinda like Steve Francis in NBA. Had flashes of greatness, big expectations, had a good career but their careers should had been better than it was. Both are not forgettable names to fans but they both will be forgotten in maybe 20 years. Honestly nobody on this list will be highly remembered among casuals ( which is my point).

Thanks for the comment.

[MalevolentBite]

"Wasted Potential"

No, what you meant to say was "failed our expectations."

By claiming it as 'lost potential' we try to shift our failure in judgement to the fighter's failure of character.

Just because we thought we saw, at one moment "potential," but then the guy didn't reach our expectations, doesn't mean he didn't reach his potential. The only FACT at play here, is that we were wrong.

Take the biggest disappointment from your list above, one with our consensus agreeing, and we still won't know if he, did or did not, reach his potential.

It only means, we were all really wrong.

I think you need to use a different word. Judging potential is just an opinion that is too obtuse for a criteria.

It should be about our failed expectations (our claimed expertise) and not the fighter's perceived failure.

Potential- having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future.

Expectations - are beliefs about what will happen in the future. They can be based on past experiences or what is considered likely to happen.

I think I will keep it the way it is.

[Willie Pep 229]

Potential- having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future.

Expectations - are beliefs about what will happen in the future. They can be based on past experiences or what is considered likely to happen.

I think I will keep it the way it is.

But if you don't walk everyday in another man's shoes how can to possibly tell what his potential is?

"Showing the capacity to . . ." is a product of your judgements which in reality are just your expectations.

A man certainly an has a potential but you can never properly evaluate it, you can't possibly know enough.

[JeBron Lamez]

Ehhh, kinda right.

Brook did suffer a stabbing in Aug of 2014, after he beat Porter, and if you felt that really limited his potential then so be it. To be honest, at that point I thought dude was destined for more. But no, he was not recovering in 2015. He was back in the ring in March of 2015, and looked fine against Jo-Jo Dan. It was a less than spectacular opponent but no stress, it was his mandatory, he was coming off the leg injury, and it was his first title defense. I am down with a soft touch. Problem is what happened after that. He was lined up to have a good career, mentioned to be a possible Mayweather opponent, was looking to maybe have a massive fight against Kell Brook, and of course shouldve had a big fight with Keith Thurman.

Sadly, the big fights didn't materialize, so he took on another relatively easy fight in Frankie Gavin, but that fight was in May of 2015- so its not like he was in any way spending 2015 recovering. Spent another long stretch trying to get big fights but couldn't, so defended against another lower level mandatory. After that, whether through frustration, over confidence, or wanting money, he challenged a starting to slow down GGG.....

Yes, the stabbing happened, but to argue that he was recovering for 2015, is wrong.

Yeah u right, I went kinda crazy there lol.

[billeau2]

Thanks for the comment. I think broner would had been more focus he could been an all time great. He had the skillset and talent at the lighter weight. I think his outside lifestyle and living in Floyd's little brother shadow doomed him. He needed a strong handler.

Zab was too hot and cold for me during most of his career. He had flashes of greatness.

Kelly had a decent career but i think he had alot of outside demons.

Crazy thing was. I was going to but Keith Thurman and Kell Brook on this list. Still til this day, i cant believe Eddie sent an undefeated welterweight champion fight GGG. Down hill from that fight for Kell.

Our very own Larry (RIP), thought Broner was going to show greatness and rule the roost. Larry was an excellent judge of ability and I could see where he was coming from.

[billeau2]

Maybe i believed more in Ray Mercer than most but I honestly believe he had the skillset, chin and power to be the top 3 best heavyweight of the 90s. I still can't believe that Holmes fight and I am a huge Holmes fan. He's my favorite boxer.

Zab had alot of hood in him and me being from the new york tri state area. He always seemed to be in some drama. Zab had it all but he was always hot and cold in big fights. You never know what zab will show up. Zab honestly should be one of greatest but he will never be rated that high ever.

Wilder is on this list because he's hard headed and that's an internal problem he has.

Mercer was talented, and I am also a New Yorker, born and bred in East Harlem, I knew a lot of family in Brooklyn growing up and knew about Zab. They were quite the fighting family! He definitely had that nice introduction from an early age. And yeah he had the natural ability for sure. I always got a sense with him that he wasn't really a fighter. Some guys have all the talent but they don't really like to fight. There was a rumor that the great Ray Robinson himself wanted to be a dancer! Lol...

Regarding Wilder, I would characterize your POV about him as him being a guy who is just uncoachable. I definitely agree with that. Yes it is stubbornness and specifically there are some fighters that just cannot take direction. The opposite would be a EVander holyfield, who loves to mix it up but listen to his corner when he beat Rid**** Bowe and Mike Tyson using very specific boxing even though he probably wanted to just go New York crazy lol.

[MalevolentBite]

But if you don't walk everyday in another man's shoes how can to possibly tell what his potential is?

"Showing the capacity to . . ." is a product of your judgements which in reality are just your expectations.

A man certainly an has a potential but you can never properly evaluate it, you can't possibly know enough.

There's people who get paid millions to judge and gauge talent base on many different aspects to gain potential. Even in my sub hobbly with breeding dogs. There's characteristics that I can see to development a champion dog or a working dog however it's up to the dog to pass those test, since a dog can't talk , i think that job is more harder then judging potential on a human.

Please you if you don't like the topic leave the chat. You are now doing the strawman argument for something that is not that serious.

Thank you for stopping by i appreciate it

[MalevolentBite]

Mercer was talented, and I am also a New Yorker, born and bred in East Harlem, I knew a lot of family in Brooklyn growing up and knew about Zab. They were quite the fighting family! He definitely had that nice introduction from an early age. And yeah he had the natural ability for sure. I always got a sense with him that he wasn't really a fighter. Some guys have all the talent but they don't really like to fight. There was a rumor that the great Ray Robinson himself wanted to be a dancer! Lol...

Regarding Wilder, I would characterize your POV about him as him being a guy who is just uncoachable. I definitely agree with that. Yes it is stubbornness and specifically there are some fighters that just cannot take direction. The opposite would be a EVander holyfield, who loves to mix it up but listen to his corner when he beat Rid**** Bowe and Mike Tyson using very specific boxing even though he probably wanted to just go New York crazy lol.

I agree 100% on this comment ^ respect!.

[MalevolentBite]

Should we add Tank to the list after the Roach fight ???? Lol