Weakest HW Champ Of Them All

[Willie Pep 229]

- - With toofless Leon being the weakest of modern champs, and Marvin Hart being the weakest of the oltimers, that's a tough call whether the Leon who whooped Ali could beat the Marv who whooped Jack Johnson.

What if that Ali and JJ fought each other on that fateful night of infamy, who U got...

Since we are looking for the weakest, what if Hart fought L. Spinks?

Not a tough call. Hart whoops Neon. Spinks made his name in the amateurs where boxing is paramount. Hart was a pug who could box, fight, and grapple like a pro.

Once Ali gave a damn, Leon turned out to be nothing more than a sparring session for him, never closing the distance.

It is hard to see Neon handling any seasoned fighter. Hart gave up size and skill and still made a fight of it, taking JJ the distance. For a small man that's an achievement. Spinks beating an old a disinterested Ali isn't.

But of course to some, with a agenda, Hart is not a real champion and to suggest he is, causes panic amongst their ranks. So keep this between me and you.

[Mr Mitts]

Who was the weakest HW champion at throwing some weights around? Which ones do you figure were the weakest strength-wise?

[QueensburyRules]

Since we are looking for the weakest, what if Hart fought L. Spinks?

Not a tough call. Hart whoops Neon. Spinks made his name in the amateurs where boxing is paramount. Hart was a pug who could box, fight, and grapple like a pro.

Once Ali gave a damn, Leon turned out to be nothing more than a sparring session for him, never closing the distance.

It is hard to see Neon handling any seasoned fighter. Hart gave up size and skill and still made a fight of it, taking JJ the distance. For a small man that's an achievement. Spinks beating an old a disinterested Ali isn't.

But of course to some, with a agenda, Hart is not a real champion and to suggest he is, causes panic amongst their ranks. So keep this between me and you.

- - Shhhhhh......noone should know......NOONE!!!

[max baer]

Since we are looking for the weakest, what if Hart fought L. Spinks?

Not a tough call. Hart whoops Neon. Spinks made his name in the amateurs where boxing is paramount. Hart was a pug who could box, fight, and grapple like a pro.

Once Ali gave a damn, Leon turned out to be nothing more than a sparring session for him, never closing the distance.

It is hard to see Neon handling any seasoned fighter. Hart gave up size and skill and still made a fight of it, taking JJ the distance. For a small man that's an achievement. Spinks beating an old a disinterested Ali isn't.

But of course to some, with a agenda, Hart is not a real champion and to suggest he is, causes panic amongst their ranks. So keep this between me and you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxcVScz2ic remember this leon spinks fight? Worth considering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErfggpSuOvY something in leon spinks best of!
I think he was better then our memories serve us. Do you watch this and think "he was rather good in some ways?"

[travestyny]

Charles Martin was the first that came to mind.

[Willie Pep 229]

Hart was 3/4"of an inch the shorter man,but slightly heavier.
I class him as a legitimate champion.

Yeah, I see it now. Hart is not a small HW when compared to JJ in 1905.

Although JJ will put on 17 pounds more by Jeffries. I guess I too often think of Johnson at that size and shouldn't.*

But this match-up does looks even in size.

This makes me double down that Hart would probably take L. Spinks.

I think Spinks was a one night wonder.

* There is some historical speculation that they, the media, shaved Johnson's weight down a bit for the Jeffries fight.

They wanted the 'negro' to be smaller than the White man. Part of Jeffries image was: 'What a mountain of a man he is.'

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson said he was 208lbs,and in the shape of his life.

Yeah. So says Boxrec and I suspect the newspapers of the day.

I wonder though, if 'negro' weights weren't screwed with.

There is no doubt that size mattered. It is what gave us the 'tale of the tape.' (Right down to ankle size.)

Considering all the other racist acts perpetrated on black fighters why would they, the commissions and newspapers, not shape the statistics to their liking?

I question all numbers I read about the black pioneer fighters. You have to expect that the white papers diminish their value and the 'Negro' papers exaggerate.

[travestyny]

Nice to see you posting again!

Nice to know you're still around as well, good sir!

[Willow The Wisp]

I agree, personally I struggle to see the HW champions of the whites from BE and the USA as legitimate world HW champions.


Lineage, sure, but no one calls Figg a world champion. Mendoza, Cribb, etc. all important figures leading up to the world title but not world figures and that's cool with everyone. Dempsey, Jeffries, Fitzs, I get why they have fans. They were fantastic for their time in their little tiny baby pool of talent but to pretend like the scope of boxing was global is a lie. I don't see why we don't be honest about the early "world" champions and put them into their own category not unlike how we have BK and LPRR champions. They were intercontinental white champions.

IMO, the true world title was not established until the colored title was made defunct by Joe Louis.

Let's give a nod to actual, scholarly history for just a moment. My New Years Eve post for all my friends here.
Various permutations of stand-up, (mostly) fists only fighting contests conducted for non lethal military training and entertainment purposes, distinctly apart from ground grappling, existed within many cultures following the fall of Rome and the effective end of the Greco-Roman tradition (Greek pygme, Roman pugilatus), which were outlawed in AD 393 by Roman Emperor Theodosius the Great, as being both unnecessarily violent and a spectacle of Pagan celebration.

But recorded modern boxing began in earnest with an article published in the London Protestant Mercury on January 6, 1681. The story reported an organized bare-knuckle fight between the unnamed London Butcher, and the Footman of Christopher Monck, the 2nd Duke of Albemarle. The butcher won the prize and was proclaimed the "best boxer in England".

The English title began officially in 1719, with James Figg, of Thame in Oxfordshire developing a national reputation by defeating each of England's most noteworthy competitors to the title; Robert Waldern of London, a Plummer, Timothy Buck of Clare-Market, Rowland Bennet, Tom Stokes, Richard Stinson, Bill Flanders, Christopher Clarkson, and his chief rival; Ned Sutton, from Gravesend.
Many (but not all) of Figg's matches were comprised of sessions featuring sword, broadstaff and cudgel in addition to boxing.

It is believed Figg fought a total of 270 fights and lost only once (perhaps twice). Openly acknowledged as the first bare-knuckle Champion of England, a title Figg claimed in 1719 and held until his retirement eleven years later.
Figg fought in front of European royalty, including George, Prince of Wales, and the future Holy Roman Emperor Francis I, as well as aristoc****, politicians, writers, artists, and actors, and was one of the better-known personages in all of London during his life.


Professional boxing went from an English, Scottish and Irish sport to a truly international sport in a bout held on Jan 20, 1725, when a tall and muscular Venetian Gondolier, Stopa l'Aqua, also known as Tito Alberto di Carini, immensely famous in his homeland as the best of the storied Venetian bridge fighting tradition, was brought to England by the Earl of Bath, William Pulteney, in order to establish international mastery of the Pugilistic arts.
Champion Figg handed off the task to one of his prize students, Bob Whittaker; who came back from a quick knockdown off the stage to stop the big Venetian with an expertly placed body shot; establishing the English method as superior. George, Prince of Wales, watched the fight from a specially constructed royal box.

The first boxing rules were introduced in 1743 by legendary champion Jack Broughton, called simply, the "Broughton's rules". These rules were intended to reduce the number of fatalities in the ring as the sport exploded in popularity.


The Heavyweight Championship became the World Championship on July 29, 1754, when France's giant Monsieur Jean Petit challenged Jack Slack for the title. Slack won the international contest in 25 minutes of fighting, for the now Heavyweight Championship of the World.

The Heavyweight world title broke the color line on December 18, 1810, at Copthorne Gap, near Surrey, as Tom Molineaux, the first fighter from the United States to fight for the world title, fought Tom Cribb, England’s “Champion of Champions” in the first of their two famous fights.

On April 17, 1860, In one of the most important sporting events in history, the English champion was once again matched against his American counterpart in a massive event, when the rivalry between England and America reached the docks of Hampshire, about 60 miles southwest of London. There, a 26-year-old American, John Carmel Heenan went up against the 34-year-old native son “Brighton Titch” Tom Sayers. The clash of the titans lasted over two and a half hours, and both men were still standing when police broke up the fight. Among the escapees in the crowd were Charles ****ens, W.M. Thackeray, and the prime minister himself, Lord Palmerston, who had to face some sharp questions from the Parliament several days later.


I can assure everyone that these historical facts are all true.
And because it's long history is at the root of what makes our sport uniquely important to the world, let's pump the breaks on our cynicism and our thrist for being the "news breaker" of revisionist history; and accept what historians have documented in real time and what is universally accepted today by scholarly research. It's simply the smart path.

Happy New Year to everyone!

[Anomalocaris]

Marvin Hart is a good shout in my opinion or maybe Ali, I just can't make up my mind.