Why not Holmes over Ali?

[Bronson66]

In other words Ali lost to Frazier and Norton in 1971 and 1973. Holmes was better than they were. I think Holmes could have taken Ali as soon as 1977. That is the year Jimmy Young was robbed vs. Ali. Notron was robbed in the 3rd fight with Ali in 1976. Lots of gifted score cards for Ali.

You asked the forum a question I answered it ,then you began talking about something different entirely!

With18 rds of boxing under his belt after 3 1/2 years of exile.Ali lost a close decision to Frazier over 15 rounds.Ali had an hours check up for his jaw after the fight Frazier spent several weeks in the hospital.Ali avenged that defeat,twice .


In1973 Ali took on the lightly regarded Norton.Ali was in bed with2 hookers before the fight and paid the price for it as the highly motivated Norton broke his jaw and took a decision from him,A trained and focused Ali reversed the decision,twice.

Holmes went life and death with a past prime Norton,and the Frazier of FOTC would have been just as much a handful for Holmes as he was in that fight for Ali.
I don't think Norton was robbed in his losses to Norton though they were close,and the 3rd could have gone to Norton or been a draw.

Neither do I think Young, who spent half the fight with his upper body outside the ring deserved the decision over a fat , older Ali.Ali won a unanimous decision
There are quite a few who believe Williams beat Holmes and that Witherspoon was worthy of a draw.
Neither got a rematch.



As to your claim that Holmes would have beaten Ali in1977
In1977 Ali was 35 ,nearly 36 clearly past prime , Holmes was 28 until November of that year. Would it be a surprise that a nearly 8 years,
[7 years 10 months] younger man.
Ali DOB Jan1942
Holmes DOB Nov 1949
Could defeat him?

Given that, it obviously would not .
Q . So,what is the point of this thread in the first place?
A.It affords the OP an opportunity, via skewed stats ,spin,and deliberate lies to dump some more **** on a great fighter and champion

[Dr. Z]

You asked the forum a question I answered it ,then you began talking about something different entirely!

Yes, I asked in what year do you think Holmes beats Ali? I say in 1977. You failed to give an anwer to that question. Try to pay attention.

[Bronson66]

Yes, I asked in what year do you think Holmes beats Ali? I say in 1977. You failed to give an anwer to that question. Try to pay attention.

No.This was the last question you asked.

"1966- 1972? Who did Ali beat the make you think this?" Your Mendoza speak.lol

And I gave the names of 9 top ten ranked men Ali beat during that period

This was your first post choc full of your usual lies which I corrected with the following reply.



Ali beat over 30 Ring ranked contenders and champions that's over twice as many as Holmes.
Strike One!

Ali was only floored by 1 non Ring top ten ranked fighter Sonny Banks . Cooper was no 10.Wepner ,[ if anyone is desperate enough to count that,] was no9 Frazier was Champ.

Holmes was floored by unranked Kevin Isaac.and unranked Renaldo Snipes!
StrikeTwo!

Holmes did not have a good left hook.Ali floored and ko'd iron chinned Bonavena with left hooks.
Strike Three!

Holmes had major issues with Carl Williams jab and Ken Norton's jab. Newsflash everyone has issues with great jabbers! Strike Four!

Holmes was not sacked by Ali ,he and his then manager decided it was time to try and make there way and establish Larry in the division and left voluntarily.Holmes has spoken about this on video several times.
Strike Five!

Holmes had a slightly better chin? Did he? Was it tested against Foreman,Lyle, Frazier,Liston? Shavers dropped a prime Holmes,he couldn't drop a past prime Ali.
Strike Six!

You ignored the corrections,and proceeded on your merry way , talking your customary absolute bollocks.

You don't actually know WHAT you are doing do you.Lol

[Willow The Wisp]

No.This was the last question you asked.

"1966- 1972? Who did Ali beat the make you think this?" Your Mendoza speak.lol

And I gave the names of 9 top ten ranked men Ali beat during that period

This was your first post choc full of your usual lies which I corrected with the following reply.



Ali beat over 30 Ring ranked contenders and champions that's over twice as many as Holmes.
Strike One!

Ali was only floored by 1 non Ring top ten ranked fighter Sonny Banks . Cooper was no 10.Wepner ,[ if anyone is desperate enough to count that,] was no9 Frazier was Champ.

Holmes was floored by unranked Kevin Isaac.and unranked Renaldo Snipes!
StrikeTwo!

Holmes did not have a good left hook.Ali floored and ko'd iron chinned Bonavena with left hooks.
Strike Three!

Holmes had major issues with Carl Williams jab and Ken Norton's jab. Newsflash everyone has issues with great jabbers! Strike Four!

Holmes was not sacked by Ali ,he and his then manager decided it was time to try and make there way and establish Larry in the division and left voluntarily.Holmes has spoken about this on video several times.
Strike Five!

Holmes had a slightly better chin? Did he? Was it tested against Foreman,Lyle, Frazier,Liston? Shavers dropped a prime Holmes,he couldn't drop a past prime Ali.
Strike Six!

You ignored the corrections,and proceeded on your merry way , talking your customary absolute bollocks.

You don't actually know WHAT you are doing do you.Lol

Good question by Dr. Z, good anawer by Ivich.

The chin thing. Ali's chin was better than Holmes IMO, but only by the hairs on his chinny chin chin.

[Dr. Z]

Good question by Dr. Z, good anawer by Ivich.

The chin thing. Ali's chin was better than Holmes IMO, but only by the hairs on his chinny chin chin.

No, it really was not. I could waste time and put him into the cheap seats, but that would only leave him numb, and wanting more.

You can come out now, Ivich. Oh, Mcvey. Er I mean Tony, or Tonoto 62... or Incapable. The joke keeps on going with you hidden names.

[JAB5239]

No, it really was not. I could waste time and put him into the cheap seats, but that would only leave him numb, and wanting more.

You can come out now, Ivich. Oh, Mcvey. Er I mean Tony, or Tonoto 62... or Incapable. The joke keeps on going with you hidden names.

This is your way of deflecting. You're the only one who has been "put into the cheap seats" from the very beginning of this thread when you claimed Holmes said Ali kicked him out of training camp for being to fast. You tried posting a video....no Holmes saying that. You tried saying it was in a book....no Holmes saying that. At every turn you've been taken to task. Just give it up already. It doesn't matter if Holmes could have beaten Ali in '77, he didn't and history has been written. Both were great fighters, but only one was "The greatest"!!

[Bronson66]

No, it really was not. I could waste time and put him into the cheap seats, but that would only leave him numb, and wanting more.

You can come out now, Ivich. Oh, Mcvey. Er I mean Tony, or Tonoto 62... or Incapable. The joke keeps on going with you hidden names.

I've had 2 user names on classic and 2 on here . End Of

Now let's address your deliberate lies.
Lie 1.Holmes beat more top ten Ring ranked men than Ali. Holmes fought 14 .Ali 30.
Lie 2.Holmes was not floored by unranked fighters.He was floored by Kevin Isaac and Renaldo Snipes,neither were ranked.Ali was only floored by 1 ,Sonny Banks.
Lie 3.Holmes was fired by Ali .He left of his own accord.
We can add these lies to your fictitious quote of Lennox Lewis saying after beating Ossie Ocasio,"I won't fight any more southpaws".When I pointed out to you that Ocasio was never a southpaw you did not know what to say! LIe 4.
You really came unstuck with that one!
Here's another one,"you read in a Spanish newspaper that Carlos Monzon was a floored in a fight with Jorge Valdes?" It never happened.Lie 5.
You claimed you weren't banned from ESB your are,for life . Lie 6.
Lets now take a look at your honour.

Remember when you bet me that the Ruhlin v Fitzsimmons fight was filmed and I said it wasn't?
I provided quotes from 3 authors that it wasnt, Gilbert Odd ,Adam Pollack,and Steve Compton.

Because the camera did not work ,a re-enactment starring the principals was made later made with both men pulling their punches to a rehearsed script.
Ruhlin was wearing stage greasepaint make up to hide his facial injuries,the fake was passed off as the real thing until some one spotted that Jim Corbett who had been Ruhlin's chief second was not in the film.
Corbett had returned home and refused to come back to NY and be party to the fake re-enactment.
To get out of the bet and renege on your obligation,you said that the re-enactment counted as the real fight being filmed.
You then said Ted Spoon had told you the fight was filmed.I contacted Ted and he denied ever having spoken to you
Remember that? Lie7.
If the fight had been successfully filmed why would they have needed to make a re-enactment of it later?
You're a liar,a hater, and a bet welsher.and I've no problem saying all this on your thread.I wouldn't derail anyone else's thread, as you have done several times,but your thread ?


WGAF about you?

[JAB5239]

I've had 2 user names on classic and 2 on here . End Of

Now let's address your deliberate lies.
Lie 1.Holmes beat more top ten Ring ranked men than Ali. Holmes fought 14 .Ali 30.
Lie 2.Holmes was not floored by unranked fighters.He was floored by Kevin Isaac and Renaldo Snipes,neither were ranked.Ali was only floored by 1 ,Sonny Banks.
Lie 3.Holmes was fired by Ali .He left of his own accord.
We can add these lies to your fictitious quote of Lennox Lewis saying after beating Ossie Ocasio,"I won't fight any more southpaws".When I pointed out to you that Ocasio was never a southpaw you did not know what to say! LIe 4.
You really came unstuck with that one!
Here's another one,"you read in a Spanish newspaper that Carlos Monzon was a floored in a fight with Jorge Valdes?" It never happened.Lie 5.
You claimed you weren't banned from ESB your are,for life . Lie 6.
Lets now take a look at your honour.

Remember when you bet me that the Ruhlin v Fitzsimmons fight was filmed and I said it wasn't?
I provided quotes from 3 authors that it wasnt, Gilbert Odd ,Adam Pollack,and Steve Compton.

Because the camera did not work ,a re-enactment starring the principals was made later made with both men pulling their punches to a rehearsed script.
Ruhlin was wearing stage greasepaint make up to hide his facial injuries,the fake was passed off as the real thing until some one spotted that Jim Corbett who had been Ruhlin's chief second was not in the film.
Corbett had returned home and refused to come back to NY and be party to the fake re-enactment.
To get out of the bet and renege on your obligation,you said that the re-enactment counted as the real fight being filmed.
You then said Ted Spoon had told you the fight was filmed.I contacted Ted and he denied ever having spoken to you
Remember that? Lie7.
If the fight had been successfully filmed why would they have needed to make a re-enactment of it later?
You're a liar,a hater, and a bet welsher.and I've no problem saying all this on your thread.I wouldn't derail anyone else's thread, as you have done several times,but your thread ?


WGAF about you?

Back, back, back, back,,back.....and Z is outta here!!!

[The D3vil]

Dude are you serious?

Ali beat Liston, Foreman, Patterson, Moore, Norton, & Frazier.

Holmes never even unified the division.

Ali beat arguable 3 top 10 HWs ever.

Holmes never beat 1

Ali beat 4 Olympic Gold Medalists

Holmes never beat 1

Holmes is an all-time top 5 HW on 90% of lists, but there's Ali & there's everyone else.

[Bronson66]

Back, back, back, back,,back.....and Z is outta here!!!

Unlike him ,in my case , I've no wish to see him banned,nor would I ever report him or anyone else,nor gloat over it if it happened.
Lets face it, he's been badly exposed now and any credibility he may have had is gone forever.
Let him make his hating posts,with his often repeated lies included in them,he's of no matter .
The yapping dog has had his teeth pulled,his nuts cut off, and he's now, no more than a minor annoyance.