I never knew

[Ivich]

Tell me does Johnson do the same to Tiny Tommy Bruns, grabbing him and holding him upright? Why yes he does! All 168 pounds of him.

If Smith says the KD was faked, I like to see that link. Now post it, or go silk away.

That is what I say.

Johnson could have taken both Burns and Ketchel out much earlier if he had tried,but he decided to carry them for a few rounds.
Burns, for all the insults and racial slurs he had made,and Johnson wanted to punish him with a prolonged humiliating beating.
Ketchel , because it was in Johnson's best financial interest to give those who would be paying to watch film of the fight something to look at a one round blow out would have adversely affected the demand for paying to see film of the fight.
It surprises me you aren't up to speed with these common knowledge facts!


"Jack Johnson weighed 195lbs on a scale in the Seal Rock House.Stanley Ketchel only weighed 169lbs I think it was,thats a big difference
It was no contest.Johnson would pick him up by the arms,and set him down anywhere he wanted.
Then they pulled a fake knockdown.This Ketchel was supposed to be agood hitter .He hit him way on top of the head,and Johnson,who was a good actor went down on one hand."
GunBoat Smith at his home in Brooklyn 1970.taped interview

Haven't you learned not to ask me for sources yet? You know that,unlike you, I will supply them!

[Ivich]

Cool, cool, he asked what other fights may have been fixed.

What you need to be aware of is the motive behind his question.

Anyway, I will try and answer it .
Carrying opponents with or without their knowledge is rather different to a fixed fight imo.

Johnson deliberately prolonged fights against some of his white opposition.that isnt to say he allowed them to beat him,but rather that he allowed them to stay longer than their abilities indicated they would have.
Ray Robinson carried a few guys,Charlie Fusari being one of them,would you say Ray was in fixed fights?

Back to a candidate for a Johnson fixed fight.The only one I have to offer in 94 fights is this one.
Johnson v Brad Simmons.

931-04-27			Brad Simmons		31 17 5		Forum, Wichita	W-KO	2/10		event bout score wiki
The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS) Johnson was a month off of 53 years old Harry Wills Sam McVey Gene Tunney Charley Burley Among others, were slung out for not trying in fights

[Ivich]

The Gun Boat Smith quote throws a monkey wrench into the works (the legend.)

The legend usually goes . . . they made an agreement to prolong the fight (likely for film revenue) with Ketchel seeing an opportunity to steal the title with a cheap shot, throws a cheap shot.

Angered, Johnson flys at Ketchel, knocking him out cold, and then wiping Ketchel's front teeth from his glove.

So goes the legend.

If we take Smith's account that the Johnson KD was staged ("fake") why then would Johnson come off the canvas with such ferocity and hurt Ketchel as he did?

The bottom line is you believe what seems the most plausible scenario to you . We do know that Ketchel lost teeth ,his manager Willus Britt had one put on his watch fob.

[Ivich]

Is he talking about his own knockdown of Johnson's or Kechel's?

The press reported Johnson was dazed in interviews right after the fight. Johnson admits to beefing hurt.





Johnson was hurt and admitted it to the NY Times, who said he won while being dazed.

Johnson liked to play with the over matched like Burns, Ketchel, or Flynn, Neither fight was " fixed " It was just his way and style.

The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death, not before.

During the action, Ketchel took a beating, and Johnson himself was marked up.



A report from the NY Times:

A report from the New York Times - Oct, 17 - 1909 gives the account -

Round One - " The champion scored almost immediately with a HARD left"

Round Two - "In a clinch Ketchel uppercut HARD to the jaw with his left, this angered the champion."....Ketchel's face showed grim determination as he took his corner"

Round Three ( Missing )

Round Four - Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right...it was a close shave...and missed him barely an inch"

Round Five - "Johnson then sent Ketchel's head back with two straight lefts to the nose"

Round Six - " Ketchel was met with two lefts that started the blood flowing..."

Round Seven - "Ketchel used the...shoulder as a mat with which to stop the flowing blood from his nostrils"

"Ketchel swung his left with TERRIFIC force and caught the champion solidly on the jaw, raising a big lump that was perceptible to the spectators."

Round Eight - "Ketchel worked in a HARD right uppercut to the jaw"...."Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right-swing and almost went through the ropes from the force of his effort"

Round Ten - "...Johnson getting Ketchel against the ropes, sent a right wallop to the stomach and Ketchel winced..."

Round Eleven - "Ketchel's face was badly battered..."

The match was not fixed. IMO, Johnson was legitimately fooled and lost taken out

He is talking about Johnson's knock down.That's, obvious read the bloody quote!


Then they pulled a fake knockdown.This Ketchel was supposed to be a good hitter .He hit him way on top of the head,and Johnson,who was a good actor went down on one hand."

THE FIGHT WAS NOT FIXED FFS! JOHNSON HAD AGREED TO CARRY KETCHEL FOR SOME ROUNDS TO MAKE THE FILM FOOTAGE SALEABLE
KETCHEL WAS TRYING HIS BEST JOHNSON WAS BOXING UNDER WRAPS

HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO GRASP THIS?

JOHNSON GOT UP AND IMMEDIATELY KO'D KETCHEL FOR12 MINUTES.THE FILM SHOWS HIM STANDING NONCHALANTLY AGAINST THE ROPES BRUSHING OFF HIS GLOVES. YOUR HYSTERICAL HATRED IS OFF THE SCALE HERE!

[Ivich]

oh sure make up a story after a man dies and he can't refute it. Where did johnson agree to a fix or pre arrangement for film rights? Proof? You have none.

Wrong !Johnson told his story two days later,can't you get anything right?

[Ivich]

I am talking about the alleged incident about a fix with Kechel. Jack Johnson made it up by the lying Johnson AFTER Kethel was dead. Dead men tell no tales.

Johnson made a statement 2 days after the fight in which he said " I handed him what he deserved.
Ketchel did not die until a year later.
Do try and keep up!

[Ivich]

Smith as time worked for Johnson as a sparring parter and may have been angling at a title shot himself. So it was in his best interests to say what he said. " And he did not forget it " said Smith in the interview about the punch hurt and floored Johnson,

Smith worked as a sparring partner for Johnson for a couple of weeks.

How would Smith saying Johnson's KD by Ketchel was a fake was in his best interest Explain it?

There is not a shred of evidence Smith ever actively campaigned to fight Johnson.