Nice Sporting Humanitarian Speech From Jim Jeffries

[Ivich]

Yes, Wills, Cotton, Blackburn, all disliked Johnson.

That is correct, I refer to a particular poster as a ****** lover who defends them at all costs in the lounge. Stay in your lane if you don’t know the full context.

Here we are over a hundred years later and we have fighters like Wilder who said they want to kill someone in the ring. We have fighters who still make racist comments towards opponents and other races in general. We still have their racist fans who defend them. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Jeffries as I pointed out ,wasn't referring to a fighter he was going to face,he was talking about a fight between two boxers and stating he hoped one killed the other.
Cotton was mentored by Johnson,and Johnson promoted him to the press. Johnson and Cotton
image.png


Please produce a quote from Wills saying he disliked Johnson.Johnson had Wills as a sparring partner but said he had to let him go because at that stage of his career Wills could not give him a decent workout.

Jack Blackburn ?What a lovely man he was,his own brother gave him that long scar on his face.. Blackburn shot an unarmed man 3 times and the man died from his wounds, he also shot the man's wife ,in the back but after along hospitalization she recovered .
Blackburn was given a15 years sentence but got out after 5 years.Nice chap!

[GhostofDempsey]

Jeffries as I pointed out ,wasn't referring to a fighter he was going to face,he was talking about a fight between two boxers and stating he hoped one killed the other.
Cotton was mentored by Johnson,and Johnson promoted him to the press. Johnson and Cotton
image.png


Please produce a quote from Wills saying he disliked Johnson.Johnson had Wills as a sparring partner but said he had to let him go because at that stage of his career Wills could not give him a decent workout.

Jack Blackburn ?What a lovely man he was,his own brother gave him that long scar on his face.. Blackburn shot an unarmed man 3 times and the man died from his wounds, he also shot the man's wife ,in the back but after along hospitalization she recovered .
Blackburn was given a15 years sentence but got out after 5 years.Nice chap!

I already posted the quote from Wills, go search for it the same way you tell me to search for your prior posts and articles. It was in a book on Jeanette. Johnson certainly didn’t think much if Wills, he considered him a mediocre fighter. Wills insists he got the better of Johnson in sparring, and Johnson insists he got the best of Wills. Neither claim can be definitively proved.

Now you will disparage Blackburn in order to defend the pimp Johnson? What a great man Johnson was, pushed his own wife to suicide. Blackburn never claimed to be a great or even good man. He did redeem himself later on as Joe Louis’ coach and mentor. He also bloodied Johnson’s nose in a sparring match.

[Willie Pep 229]

Jeffries as I pointed out ,wasn't referring to a fighter he was going to face,he was talking about a fight between two boxers and stating he hoped one killed the other.
Cotton was mentored by Johnson,and Johnson promoted him to the press. Johnson and Cotton
image.png


Please produce a quote from Wills saying he disliked Johnson.Johnson had Wills as a sparring partner but said he had to let him go because at that stage of his career Wills could not give him a decent workout.

Jack Blackburn ?What a lovely man he was,his own brother gave him that long scar on his face.. Blackburn shot an unarmed man 3 times and the man died from his wounds, he also shot the man's wife ,in the back but after along hospitalization she recovered .
Blackburn was given a15 years sentence but got out after 5 years.Nice chap!

I hope this doesn't read as anti-Johnson, it's meant to be pro-Wills.

RE Bold

I can see where a young Harry Wills would be just the right "wrong guy" for JJ to use as a sparing partner.

Most of JJ's opponents where were shorter than him and liked to put their heads down and moved in. JJ liked that kind of grappling and was vicious inside with upper cuts.

Wills would have looked JJ in the eye and Wills liked to throw hard punches from a distance (see Wills-Firpo fight).

Wills was not displaying the style JJ was expecting to face or needed to prepare for. In sparing he was probably difficult to deal with as well.

I'm apt to believe that Wills didn't come up short, because of a lack of experience, as JJ suggests, but more so, it was that a young, hard hitting Harry Wills wasn't what JJ wanted to tangle with daily.

Just my conjecture.

[Ivich]

I already posted the quote from Wills, go search for it the same way you tell me to search for your prior posts and articles. It was in a book on Jeanette. Johnson certainly didn’t think much if Wills, he considered him a mediocre fighter. Wills insists he got the better of Johnson in sparring, and Johnson insists he got the best of Wills. Neither claim can be definitively proved.
Now you will disparage Blackburn in order to defend the pimp Johnson? What a great man Johnson was, pushed his own wife to suicide. Blackburn never claimed to be a great or even good man. He did redeem himself later on as Joe Louis’ coach and mentor. He also bloodied Johnson’s nose in a sparring match.

I haven't any books on Jeannette, weirdly enough I have just finished a very strange conversation with a guy who says I ripped him to bits on Classic over his book on Jeannette,which I haven't even read!
Sam Langford said Johnson would have beaten Wills.
Johnson lived with **********s and used them as did Langford,Corbett,Dempsey and Sullivan.I have never seen any proof that Johnson ever lived off a ********** .as Monzon and that Haitian light heavy did.
'I'm not defending Johnson I'm just questioning your claim that lots of people from all races disliked him,and Im referring to those who actually knew him/Nat Fleischer , Tad Dorgan,and Sam McVey all thought he was a fine man .
Johnsons Wife was pushed to suicide by her own people the White Race. Blackburn did bloody Johnson's nose and when some of Blackburn's friends were going round with the hat for him whilst he was in prison Johnson said **** him .
He did however pay for McVey's funeral

[GhostofDempsey]

I haven't any books on Jeannette, weirdly enough I have just finished a very strange conversation with a guy who says I ripped him to bits on Classic over his book on Jeannette,which I haven't even read!
Sam Langford said Johnson would have beaten Wills.
Johnson lived with **********s and used them as did Langford,Corbett,Dempsey and Sullivan.I have never seen any proof that Johnson ever lived off a ********** .as Monzon and that Haitian light heavy did.
'I'm not defending Johnson I'm just questioning your claim that lots of people from all races disliked him,and Im referring to those who actually knew him/Nat Fleischer , Tad Dorgan,and Sam McVey all thought he was a fine man .
Johnsons Wife was pushed to suicide by her own people the White Race. Blackburn did bloody Johnson's nose and when some of Blackburn's friends were going round with the hat for him whilst he was in prison Johnson said **** him .
He did however pay for McVey's funeral

I gave three examples of black fighters who disliked him, in addition to Langford. Here is the Wills quote on Johnson.

The following Harry Wills quote is an excerpt from pages 360-361 of Joe Botti's book about Joe Jennette:

"Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot. Jack was a smart fellow in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea everyone should fall down and worship him. Johnson always wanted to show off. He wanted to attract attention all the time, and he didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

"If you were a young fellow trying to get along, Johnson would not show you anything. He would rather show you up instead. Take the way he treated me when we were training to fight Jim Flynn in Las Vegas. I was a young fellow then who didn't know much, but anxious to get somewhere.

"Jack Curley, who was promoting the match and looking after Johnson, offered me a job as sparring partner. I was glad to take it because I needed the money and thought I might learn something from the champion. There was a big crowd looking on the day we put on the gloves. From the start, Johnson tried to make me look silly so he could laugh at me in front of the crowd. Remember, at this time, although I was broke, I had something of a reputation, earned through hard fighting , and a boxer's reputation is his only asset.

"Anyone but Johnson woudl have thought of that and acted accordingly. All Johnson
coudl think of was his desire to make me look foolish.

"Of course I expected to be hit and hit hard. I would not have minded that, for I was strong and tough, and it is all in the game. But when Johnson stopped straight boxing and tried to make me look bad, I got kind of sore. Johnson was very proud of his strength. He thought there was no one in the ring his equal in that respect or in any other, for that matter. One of his favorite tricks was to grab your arms, waltz you around and laugh, and then suddenly let you go and uppercut you.

"Well, after he tried that on me a few times, laughing and kidding with the crowd at my expense, I decided I'd see which was the stronger of the two. The next time he grabbed my arms to shove them back, I set myself and threw him across the ring. That wiped the grin off his face in a hurry, for the crowd began to laugh at him instead of with him, something that makes a big difference to these babies who like to show off. Having lost his goat, Johnson began to slug. That was playing right into my hands, for I was tougher and a harder hitter. After mixxing it for a few moments he began to get the worst of it so he clinched and held on, meanwhile trying to laugh it off.

"That was the only time I boxed with Johnson. He told Curley to pay me off and let me go. He didn't want anyone in his camp he could not handle as he pleased. That incident is typical of Johnson's whole career. He never cared how he hurt other peoples' feelings as long as he could make himself look big. Showing off was the cause of all his troubles. At the same time I would like to say right here that if Johnson did not act right when he won the title he was made to pay dearly. Although he could have avoided the trouble that came his way, he was not treated fairly either. I think that all intelligent persons will agree with me that neither Johnson nor the people that undertook to run him out of boxing have any reason to be proud of the way they acted."
From The Baltimore Afro-American. June 13, 1931. Page 14

[Ivich]

I gave three examples of black fighters who disliked him, in addition to Langford. Here is the Wills quote on Johnson.

The following Harry Wills quote is an excerpt from pages 360-361 of Joe Botti's book about Joe Jennette:

"Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot. Jack was a smart fellow in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea everyone should fall down and worship him. Johnson always wanted to show off. He wanted to attract attention all the time, and he didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

"If you were a young fellow trying to get along, Johnson would not show you anything. He would rather show you up instead. Take the way he treated me when we were training to fight Jim Flynn in Las Vegas. I was a young fellow then who didn't know much, but anxious to get somewhere.

"Jack Curley, who was promoting the match and looking after Johnson, offered me a job as sparring partner. I was glad to take it because I needed the money and thought I might learn something from the champion. There was a big crowd looking on the day we put on the gloves. From the start, Johnson tried to make me look silly so he could laugh at me in front of the crowd. Remember, at this time, although I was broke, I had something of a reputation, earned through hard fighting , and a boxer's reputation is his only asset.

"Anyone but Johnson woudl have thought of that and acted accordingly. All Johnson
coudl think of was his desire to make me look foolish.

"Of course I expected to be hit and hit hard. I would not have minded that, for I was strong and tough, and it is all in the game. But when Johnson stopped straight boxing and tried to make me look bad, I got kind of sore. Johnson was very proud of his strength. He thought there was no one in the ring his equal in that respect or in any other, for that matter. One of his favorite tricks was to grab your arms, waltz you around and laugh, and then suddenly let you go and uppercut you.

"Well, after he tried that on me a few times, laughing and kidding with the crowd at my expense, I decided I'd see which was the stronger of the two. The next time he grabbed my arms to shove them back, I set myself and threw him across the ring. That wiped the grin off his face in a hurry, for the crowd began to laugh at him instead of with him, something that makes a big difference to these babies who like to show off. Having lost his goat, Johnson began to slug. That was playing right into my hands, for I was tougher and a harder hitter. After mixxing it for a few moments he began to get the worst of it so he clinched and held on, meanwhile trying to laugh it off.

"That was the only time I boxed with Johnson. He told Curley to pay me off and let me go. He didn't want anyone in his camp he could not handle as he pleased. That incident is typical of Johnson's whole career. He never cared how he hurt other peoples' feelings as long as he could make himself look big. Showing off was the cause of all his troubles. At the same time I would like to say right here that if Johnson did not act right when he won the title he was made to pay dearly. Although he could have avoided the trouble that came his way, he was not treated fairly either. I think that all intelligent persons will agree with me that neither Johnson nor the people that undertook to run him out of boxing have any reason to be proud of the way they acted."
From The Baltimore Afro-American. June 13, 1931. Page 14

Joe Botti is the fellow I've just been talking to . Thanks for the quote.
Johnson boosted George Godfrey to the press after sparring with him.

[Ivich]

I hope this doesn't read as anti-Johnson, it's meant to be pro-Wills.

RE Bold

I can see where a young Harry Wills would be just the right "wrong guy" for JJ to use as a sparing partner.

Most of JJ's opponents where were shorter than him and liked to put their heads down and moved in. JJ liked that kind of grappling and was vicious inside with upper cuts.

Wills would have looked JJ in the eye and Wills liked to throw hard punches from a distance (see Wills-Firpo fight).

Wills was not displaying the style JJ was expecting to face or needed to prepare for. In sparing he was probably difficult to deal with as well.

I'm apt to believe that Wills didn't come up short, because of a lack of experience, as JJ suggests, but more so, it was that a young, hard hitting Harry Wills wasn't what JJ wanted to tangle with daily.

Just my conjecture.

Who knows?
Johnson 6 ft 1/4 seemed to do alright against these men
Ferguson 6 3 1/2
Kaufman 6 1
Kennedy 6 2 1/2
Felix 6 3
Everett 6 1/2
Klon***e 6
McCormick 6 2.1/2
Griffin 6 2
Jeffords 6 4
Moran 6 1
Martin 6 3 1/2
Russell 6 3

[markusmod]

The norm of the times, that inexplicable and overt racism. You can still find it today, but for most, its repulsive. It's one thing to support your own community; but quite another to arbitrarily hate. I don't present an indictment of Jeffries, but of all people and cultures who miss out on the value of learning from beyond their own community and extending resepect beyond it.

Didn't some UK boxer from the golden days make as speech about running immigrants out of the UK?

[QueensburyRules]

You're one of them. In here defending Jeffries. Unlike Jeffries and the guy in your avatar, Wilder didn't draw the color line.

- - Jeffries record with colored fighters is about 1/3 his career with better results than Johnson had with some of the same fighters.

He signed to fight Johnson knowing he was 6 years inactive past his best, the only time that fight was viable.

Do you follow boxing or just ape unsubstantiated opinions?

[Ivich]

- - Jeffries record with colored fighters is about 1/3 his career with better results than Johnson had with some of the same fighters.

He signed to fight Johnson knowing he was 6 years inactive past his best, the only time that fight was viable.

Do you follow boxing or just ape unsubstantiated opinions?

Jeffries v Johnson would not have been viable in1906? WTF do you think Jeffries retired?
How many coloured fighters did Jeffries defend against?