Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

[Dr. Z]

Rube Foster's Giants was the team Johnson said he joined to escape the US. The consensus of opinion is that he just left and the authorities were glad to see the back of him.
At the time of the Homer Smith fight Johnson was drinking heavily and going through a divorce from Lucille Cameron. Johnson was a month off 46 years old when he met Smith.
Nobody has ever been able to turn up a shred of evidence that Dempsey and Johnson ever met in a ring .
I find the idea a party of rich business men could stump up enough money to entice World's Champion Dempsey into a ring with Johnson for a private set to incredibly fatuous.
Dempsey was making an absolute fortune starring in one reelers as Two Fisted Jack and other heroic persona.
If the plan had ever been broached with Dempsey,and there is not a particle of proof that it ever was,I think he would have turned it down for the same reason he refused to box Joe Jeannette , ie it would be a no win situtation if Johnson did reasonably well say over a 6 rounds distance,surviving by clinching and stalling the hit to Dempsey's rep would be tremendous,and if Dempsey had destroyed Johnson as summarily as he did Fulton ,what would that have proved? That he feasted on the carcass of a once great fighter.

He was drinking, he did not train hard for the fight, he was fat, the excuses are never ending for this guy in victory, defeat or when he drew! All things Johnson had control over.

Now that I have your attention I read that you are still talking about me on another board and the moderator asked you not too, along with the other posters. Your obsession with Johnson and Me is extreme. And you are negative going back and forth with THREE other posters here.

[Ivich]

He was drinking, he did not train hard for the fight, he was fat, the excuses are never ending for this guy in victory, defeat or when he drew! All things Johnson had control over.

Now that I have your attention I read that you are still talking about me on another board and the moderator asked you not too, along with the other posters. Your obsession with Johnson and Me is extreme. And you are negative going back and forth with THREE other posters here.

Actually the moderator said the biggest mistake he had made was allowing you back. Here is his post and remember it was YOU who mentioned it not ME! LOL
"Mendoza can do what he likes on Boxing Scene. Let's not let the horrendous mistake I made in bringing him back spoil any more threads.".
Reads a bit different to your version doesn't it? LOL!


Ever heard the expression, " the biter bit ?"or how about,"hoist with your own petard?"LOL !!!!

That's you.!!!

Now back to boxing Geoffrey C Ward, in his Johnson book ,"Unforgiveable Blackness ,"the book you attributed to Ken Burns before I corrected you some years ago,says that Johnson was drinking heavily at the time of that fight and also going through a divorce are you saying he is lying?
You have my attention when you tell deliberate lies,and I will never tire of correcting them.The rest of the time you are as inconsequential to me as a piece of dog **** .

[Ivich]

- - Tu confuso.

Brooklyn Eagle, Dec 10, 1921.

Saskatchawan was the biggest gold strike in North America then, thus likely the world. Be like Saudi royalty who don't appear on most wealthy lists because their wealth is unfathomable for comparison ratings to button down corporate biz models.

This is pre Hollywood Dempsey.

Kearn cut out Rickard to take Dempsey to Montana for his infamous fight with Gibbons that bankrupted the town. Sask miners, each was worth well over 100x the piffle Dempsey got from Montana. Kearns and Jack both willing to fight Wills but for politics killing that fight repeatedly. A surreptitious private fight in the basement of a private Men's club with less than a dozen speculators throwing crazy $$$ a no brainer JJ and Dempsey would've jumped on.

JJ turned down a private basement bareknuckler for the $500 in US Gold Eagles Jeffries slapped on the bar that he owned when JJ was soliciting for a title fight.

Have you ever seen any verified evidence that they fought, either in any autobiography by them, or biography written by anyone else?

Do you think it conceivable that neither of them would have mentioned it in later years? Do you think is likely that at least one member of the select audience would not have referred to it in later life?

The story of Jeffries challenging Johnson to a cellar fight is as follows.
The offer was made in Jim Corbett's brothers saloon,not Jeffries , and it was accompanied by the key to the cellar. no money was slapped down on the bar. Johnson quite rightly declined ,he wanted Jeffries in a ring, defending his his world's title against him.
When Jeffries eventually came out of retirement and made his abortive challenge to Johnson he paid dearly for the insults he had heaped on Johnson over the years.

[QueensburyRules]

Have you ever seen any verified evidence that they fought, either in any autobiography by them, or biography written by anyone else?

Do you think it conceivable that neither of them would have mentioned it in later years? Do you think is likely that at least one member of the select audience would not have referred to it in later life?

The story of Jeffries challenging Johnson to a cellar fight is as follows.
The offer was made in Jim Corbett's brothers saloon,not Jeffries , and it was accompanied by the key to the cellar. no money was slapped down on the bar. Johnson quite rightly declined ,he wanted Jeffries in a ring, defending his his world's title against him.
When Jeffries eventually came out of retirement and made his abortive challenge to Johnson he paid dearly for the insults he had heaped on Johnson over the years.

- - JJ KOed by Dempsey, so his ego could never allow that just as it didn't allow Willard to KO him.

Dunno what your source is re Jeff, but I do know what I read, and boxing being the most corrupt of all human sports excepting horse racing that needs a horse to compete, there are probably 5 different sides to this story.

Secret fight, Big $$$, acknowledgement by Dempsey in KO mag just before his death. The first thing JJ did upon prison release was call out Dempsey repeatedly, and at one point claimed to have a promoter in Mexico City willing to stage the fight for a piffling amount than they would've made in Saskatchewan whose miners could've bought off all of Mexico City with a down payment.

BS talks while Money walks to the Bank...Boxing 101...

[travestyny]

- - JJ KOed by Dempsey, so his ego could never allow that just as it didn't allow Willard to KO him.

Dunno what your source is re Jeff, but I do know what I read, and boxing being the most corrupt of all human sports excepting horse racing that needs a horse to compete, there are probably 5 different sides to this story.

Secret fight, Big $$$, acknowledgement by Dempsey in KO mag just before his death. The first thing JJ did upon prison release was call out Dempsey repeatedly, and at one point claimed to have a promoter in Mexico City willing to stage the fight for a piffling amount than they would've made in Saskatchewan whose miners could've bought off all of Mexico City with a down payment.

BS talks while Money walks to the Bank...Boxing 101...

Come on, now. You know this is not true. Even the source that this story came from already admit that it wasn't factual. It was a fantasy writing.

I want to say you are better than this, but honestly, the way you post here.....


And I've never known Dempsey to co-sign this story. Can you post the proof of that. Only thing I heard is that it was mentioned to him and he smirked playing along but refused to answer whether it were true or not. I'm sure he would have liked it to be true, but we all know it didn't happen.

[QueensburyRules]

Come on, now. You know this is not true. Even the source that this story came from already admit that it wasn't factual. It was a fantasy writing.

I want to say you are better than this, but honestly, the way you post here.....


And I've never known Dempsey to co-sign this story. Can you post the proof of that. Only thing I heard is that it was mentioned to him and he smirked playing along but refused to answer whether it were true or not. I'm sure he would have liked it to be true, but we all know it didn't happen.

- - Not saying it's 100% true, but it is 100% corruptible boxing, and miscellaneous evidence does exist, more than JJ autobaloney bio..

However a correction in that it was the debut of now defunct Flghtbeat where 87 yr old Dempsey is interviewed. When asked if the fight took place, he laughed, saying, "I always said I could beat Johnson," and that was that until the writer did some more research and put it out after his death.

[travestyny]

- - Not saying it's 100% true, but it is 100% corruptible boxing, and miscellaneous evidence does exist, more than JJ autobaloney bio..

However a correction in that it was the debut of now defunct Flghtbeat where 87 yr old Dempsey is interviewed. When asked if the fight took place, he laughed, saying, "I always said I could beat Johnson," and that was that until the writer did some more research and put it out after his death.

But you do realize that this story is 100% fiction, right. We already had a thread here that made it clear it was just a fantasy story, but for some reason you were the only one in the thread still saying it's believable. They even showed you that the writer himself stated it was fantasy but you still wanted to go with it. Why? That doesn't make sense. It's like even being dead for so many years, you guys want to hate on Johnson. I get the feeling that if this fantasy article said Johnson KOed Dempsey, you would have a different opinion about whether it was fact or fiction.

[Dr. Z]

Actually the moderator said the biggest mistake he had made was allowing you back. Here is his post and remember it was YOU who mentioned it not ME! LOL
"Mendoza can do what he likes on Boxing Scene. Let's not let the horrendous mistake I made in bringing him back spoil any more threads.".
Reads a bit different to your version doesn't it? LOL!


Ever heard the expression, " the biter bit ?"or how about,"hoist with your own petard?"LOL !!!!

That's you.!!!

Now back to boxing Geoffrey C Ward, in his Johnson book ,"Unforgiveable Blackness ,"the book you attributed to Ken Burns before I corrected you some years ago,says that Johnson was drinking heavily at the time of that fight and also going through a divorce are you saying he is lying?
You have my attention when you tell deliberate lies,and I will never tire of correcting them.The rest of the time you are as inconsequential to me as a piece of dog **** .

I read that thread and another poster complained what is it you! I don't care, and can post where I choose, go it. You are obsessed with me among other things.

Ward goes in Johnson's dark side and write in detail how he quit like a dog vs Klon***e, but a s we know you don't quote that! Tell me Tony McVcey / Ivich don't you grow weary of getting caught in lies, double standards, and getting exposed?

[Marchegiano]

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...-fight-in-1921

[Ivich]

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...-fight-in-1921

Thanks for posting that.
Lew Eskin was editor of BI and also a referee as I recall he gave some rather strange verdicts in fights.
Here is some more info including a description of the two Jacks mythical fight.

Did Jack Johnson fight Jack Dempsey? - Boxing News (boxingnewsonline.net)