Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

[Marchegiano]

Am I alone in the belief a centered format makes a post more difficult to read?

[Dr. Z]

Your boy Moyle who you love to quote so much included it in his book. "contemporary reports from ringside reporters"? We have the words from the fighters themselves. Unless you are calling Johnson himself a liar...which we all know he was.

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This will temporary shut Ivich up. The cancerous old man wishes you can post this one the web. He is the King of double standards, mentioning Molye but selective cherry picking on what he says while omitting things he does not like all the while standing on his shoulders of experts and acting like he is an authority.

Sad and funny. He is a cross between Walter Mitty, Pinocchio and Louis Farrakhan.

[Ivich]

Why do you have so many board wars with posters? My posts are not for you. Get lost. Your a zealot among other things.

Your posts are public property until you change them to personal messages. I'll correct liars wherever I find them. And God knows you keep me busy! lol

[Ivich]

Your boy Moyle who you love to quote so much included it in his book. "contemporary reports from ringside reporters"? We have the words from the fighters themselves. Unless you are calling Johnson himself a liar...which we all know he was.

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Yes Johnson lost his balance and fell over, no knockdown was credited to Langford ,by the referee or any newspaper reporter present why would it be? Why are you showing me a book I own?

What do you think it says? Show me a primary sourced statement in which Johnson ,the referee ,or any reporter who was present says Langford knocked Johnson down with a punch?

You do know it has to be a punch delivered to the legal target areas on the body to count as a KD don't you?

I ask because you don't seem to be up to speed with the rules of the sport.
ps Got any of those names I asked for of reporters that didnt attend fights but instead got drunk in pubs and sent others to report the fights?

[GhostofDempsey]

Yes Johnson lost his balance and fell over, no knockdown was credited to Langford ,by the referee or any newspaper reporter present why would it be? Why are you showing me a book I own?

What do you think it says? Show me a primary sourced statement in which Johnson ,the referee ,or any reporter who was present says Langford knocked Johnson down with a punch?

You do know it has to be a punch delivered to the legal target areas on the body to count as a KD don't you?

I ask because you don't seem to be up to speed with the rules of the sport.
ps Got any of those names I asked for of reporters that didnt attend fights but instead got drunk in pubs and sent others to report the fights?

I'm not the one claiming there was an actual knockdown, what I am saying is that Johnson himself said he went down on a slip after a glancing blow. Unlike you, I don't pretend to know it all and then use obscure and anonymous sources to back my claims.

[Bundana]

That nice, but was Johnson in fixed fights is the question of the thread! Johnson claims to have taken a dive vs Willard,.and had a deal ( which is a way of fixing and event ) with Ketchel. He has Won and lost fights via DQ, too much for them all to be accidents. It is real l on reports that was not trying, or was well sucking in many fights as reported?

You seem like a knowledge poster, unlike the zealot Ivich. What is your opinion?

I would guess, that Johnson was in his fair share of fights, where he carried overmatched opponents for a few rounds, in order to give the spectators a little more than just a quick wipeout.

We all know the talk around the Willard and Ketchel fights - so no need to rehash those discussions!

And yes, he was in several fights that ended in a DQ... but not significantly more than many of his contemporaries (the DQ frequency back then was much higher than today). An all-time list of boxers who took part in the most fights that ended in a DQ, would certainly not have Johnson in the Top-100.

[Ivich]

I'm not the one claiming there was an actual knockdown, what I am saying is that Johnson himself said he went down on a slip after a glancing blow. Unlike you, I don't pretend to know it all and then use obscure and anonymous sources to back my claims.

I'm using the next day reports of ringside reporters as printed in Pollack's books ,they list the date and title of the newspaper .whats obscure or anonymous about that?
They are not my claims they are the claims of accredited contemporary boxing reporters who were ringside.
Should I believe them or an anonymous comic that was three times translated has no provenance , and no time dates or places a comic that is contradicted in several instances, by Johnson's real autobiography with a foreword by Denzil Bachelor,which I also own.

Why do you suppose no writer present recorded a knocked down scored by Langford ,after all it the fight was held in his adopted home town ? If there was the slightest doubt would not at least one of them had said it happened?
Moyle's book states no writer mentioned a KD scored by Langford it's on the very page you posted!
I don't pretend to know it all, just more than you on this particular subject
Why don't you buy the books ,then you will have read, and know the same as me?

You are beat all ways to Sunday on this,but as per usual, you haven't the class, or the balls to admit it!

[Dr. Z]

I would guess, that Johnson was in his fair share of fights, where he carried overmatched opponents for a few rounds, in order to give the spectators a little more than just a quick wipeout.

We all know the talk around the Willard and Ketchel fights - so no need to rehash those discussions!

And yes, he was in several fights that ended in a DQ... but not significantly more than many of his contemporaries (the DQ frequency back then was much higher than today). An all-time list of boxers who took part in the most fights that ended in a DQ, would certainly not have Johnson in the Top-100.

Thanks but for famous fighters Johnson certainly rates high of DQ's wins and losses total, doesn't he? He might be #1 in the hall of fame and that has over 50 fighters in it with total amount of DQ's! If you factor in the numerous fights where he was booed form lack of action ( the ref even left the ring ) something is up. He tossed a few low too, pinched biceps, hit in breaks, etc..

[Bundana]

Thanks but for famous fighters Johnson certainly rates high of DQ's wins and losses total, doesn't he? He might be #1 in the hall of fame and that has over 50 fighters in it with total amount of DQ's! If you factor in the numerous fights where he was booed form lack of action ( the ref even left the ring ) something is up. He tossed a few low too, pinched biceps, hit in breaks, etc..

Unless I'm misunderstanding something... it appears to me, that you're saying, Johnson heads the HOFers when it comes to most DQ fights (wins + losses) engaged in, right? I don't know, how on earth you got that idea! His total of 6 DQs doesn't get him anywhere near the top... where we find guys like Jack Kid Berg and Benny Bass with 14 each, followed by Mysterious Billy Smith and George (KO) Chaney with 13 and 12, respectively.

As I've said before, I don't really find Johnson's DQ-record all that remarkable!

[Dr. Z]

Unless I'm misunderstanding something... it appears to me, that you're saying, Johnson heads the HOFers when it comes to most DQ fights (wins + losses) engaged in, right? I don't know, how on earth you got that idea! His total of 6 DQs doesn't get him anywhere near the top... where we find guys like Jack Kid Berg and Benny Bass with 14 each, followed by Mysterious Billy Smith and George (KO) Chaney with 13 and 12, respectively.

As I've said before, I don't really find Johnson's DQ-record all that remarkable!

Yes, that is true some of those guys were recently admitted to the boxing hall if fame. I can see you know your stuff. But the timeline when they fought has a lot if fishy DQ's in it, does it not?

Care to post your well reached list? Johnson I bet will be at the top of it heavyweights.