Worst Well-known cases of Pugilistic Dementia in Famous Fighters thread.

[GhostofDempsey]

Does boxing cause dementia, or is dementia a by product of old age? I met Willie Pep around 1999 at Foxwoods casino at some fights. He was well spoken and intelligent as well as funny. He sat and talked with me and my friends for 10 or 15 minutes. A few years later he was diagnosed with Alzheimers. He had been out of boxing for decades. Why then? I know and believe there are correlations, I just don't think it applies to every case of every boxer who has gotten it. I'm not a doctor though, so what do I know?

That is a valid question, one I don’t have an answer for, but my best guess is that repeated trauma to the head exacerbated his Alzheimer’s. I think a lot of neurologists are still measuring the effects of head injuries and trauma and how it relates to dementia. I have a close relative who developed dementia which went into accelerated decline after tumble down a flight of stairs and consequent concussion. Of course people with Alzheimer’s can rapidly decline without any injuries to the head whatsoever, and dementia is a peculiar disease. A lot of the inflicted often have a time of day (usually at night) when their dementia is considerably worse. Something referred to as sundowning. I see this with *****. Sometimes he speaks with clarity and seems fully aware of his surroundings, other times he seems completely befuddled and lost. I’m sure whatever meds he is on provide a peak window where he is at his best for the day.

[QueensburyRules]

What is your point? Are you trying to say they extended Ali's life even though he had dementia? Undiagnosed of course.

- - Don't have his medical records nor do you. Only know what was published and the way his physical and mental capabilities devolved during his lifetime.

When the Holmes fight was made, I was screaming to the heavens to no avail. Don't watch grown men beat up 2nd graders either, but boxing has that unfortunate reputation then and now.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am not so convinced. Surely it took years of his life, but he still lived a relatively long life given the circumstances. The average age life expectancy for someone with CTE is 51 years old. He lived nearly a quarter century longer than that. Micheal J. Fox is in nearly the state Ali was in when he was the same age. I'd venture a guess that Fox has hardly ever, if ever been punched in his life. Fox has had Parkinsons for about 30 years. Ali had it for at least 35 years and was older than Fox when diagnosed. Boxing contributes to every fighters death. Getting punched in the head does that. It takes time off your life. That doesn't make it the thing that kills you though. Just my thoughts.

This is a legit question not a challenge. (I hate the fact that we have to say that to eachother but too many people on this forum act like ******s. So anyway.)

Can you explain the difference between Parkinsons' Disease and Parkinsons' Syndrome?

M. J. Fox has Parkinsons' disease while Ali had Parkinsons' Syndrome.

I have not been able to wrap my head around the difference. MAYBE "Disease" is an innate failing like Fox, who has never been hit, while "Syndrome" implies the same symptoms but an exterior cause, (like getting punched in the head too often. But can also be caused by a car accident. )

I am not certain but think the two are comparable when looking at effect, but not comparable when looking at cause. MAYBE!

I await explanation, the Internet(s) actually failed me when trying to parse the difference; trying to understand why there are two terms.

[BattlingNelson]

Benetez didn’t like to train. Lazy camps. He was also fighting as a pro (in world title fights) as a teenager. Brain wasn’t even fully developed.

I believe I read he had tough sparring wars with his brothers hence learning his defense. That might have been in the first part of his career though.

The Benitez story is one of the sadder ones from our time.


https://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/12/s...is-family.html

[QueensburyRules]

This is a legit question not a challenge. (I hate the fact that we have to say that to eachother but too many people on this forum act like ******s. So anyway.)

Can you explain the difference between Parkinsons' Disease and Parkinsons' Syndrome?

M. J. Fox has Parkinsons' disease while Ali had Parkinsons' Syndrome.

I have not been able to wrap my head around the difference. MAYBE "Disease" is an innate failing like Fox, who has never been hit, while "Syndrome" implies the same symptoms but an exterior cause, (like getting punched in the head too often. But can also be caused by a car accident. )

I am not certain but think the two are comparable when looking at effect, but not comparable when looking at cause. MAYBE!

I await explanation, the Internet(s) actually failed me when trying to parse the difference; trying to understand why there are two terms.

- - Could ask Ferdie back in the day, but he gone bye bye.

Freddie Roach developed symptoms as a young man as did Fox. Ali was much older, say late 40s. Not saying that is the difference, only that that difference exists between the two.

[Willow The Wisp]

Does boxing cause dementia, or is dementia a by product of old age? I met Willie Pep around 1999 at Foxwoods casino at some fights. He was well spoken and intelligent as well as funny. He sat and talked with me and my friends for 10 or 15 minutes. A few years later he was diagnosed with Alzheimers. He had been out of boxing for decades. Why then? I know and believe there are correlations, I just don't think it applies to every case of every boxer who has gotten it. I'm not a doctor though, so what do I know?

Being a contact sport athlete will generally do you harm. But comparing typical onset age data against that of long-career fighter athletes is nessisary.
Iran Barkley isn't too bad yet and he's 62, but eventually, ya. He's a candidate I think.
Sugar Ray Robinson was fine up until he was about 63 or 64, then went down pretty quickly thereafter..
Willie Pep was a personal friend of mine and sharp as a tack until he hit his 80's. His afflicted years were few.
Sandy Saddler was good until his later 60s.
Emile Griffith was mugged by a gang, jumped and viciously, and almost killed on a New York City street in 1992, at 64 as he was leaving a gay bar near the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He was in the hospital for four months after the assault with serious head injuries and was never the same after that.

[JAB5239]

This is a legit question not a challenge. (I hate the fact that we have to say that to eachother but too many people on this forum act like ******s. So anyway.)

Can you explain the difference between Parkinsons' Disease and Parkinsons' Syndrome?

M. J. Fox has Parkinsons' disease while Ali had Parkinsons' Syndrome.

I have not been able to wrap my head around the difference. MAYBE "Disease" is an innate failing like Fox, who has never been hit, while "Syndrome" implies the same symptoms but an exterior cause, (like getting punched in the head too often. But can also be caused by a car accident. )

I am not certain but think the two are comparable when looking at effect, but not comparable when looking at cause. MAYBE!

I await explanation, the Internet(s) actually failed me when trying to parse the difference; trying to understand why there are two terms.

I'm more or less playing devils advocate. I question everything if I see more than one possibility. That said, I'm not a doctor so I can in no way, shape or form tell you the difference. I would find it very difficult to think Ali's career didn't factor into his Parkinsons. The the possibility is there. When I get a little more time I'll see if I can dig up some more information.

[JAB5239]

Being a contact sport athlete will generally do you harm. But comparing typical onset age data against that of long-career fighter athletes is nessisary.
Iran Barkley isn't too bad yet and he's 62, but eventually, ya. He's a candidate I think.
Sugar Ray Robinson was fine up until he was about 63 or 64, then went down pretty quickly thereafter..
Willie Pep was a personal friend of mine and sharp as a tack until he hit his 80's. His afflicted years were few.
Sandy Saddler was good until his later 60s.
Emile Griffith was mugged by a gang, jumped and viciously, and almost killed on a New York City street in 1992, at 64 as he was leaving a gay bar near the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He was in the hospital for four months after the assault with serious head injuries and was never the same after that.

.meeting Pep was one of my most memorable experiences. It wasn't anything extraordinary in the meeting itself.... but what a wonderful guy. Good post.

[Keleneki]

Being a contact sport athlete will generally do you harm. But comparing typical onset age data against that of long-career fighter athletes is nessisary.
Iran Barkley isn't too bad yet and he's 62, but eventually, ya. He's a candidate I think.
Sugar Ray Robinson was fine up until he was about 63 or 64, then went down pretty quickly thereafter..
Willie Pep was a personal friend of mine and sharp as a tack until he hit his 80's. His afflicted years were few.
Sandy Saddler was good until his later 60s.
Emile Griffith was mugged by a gang, jumped and viciously, and almost killed on a New York City street in 1992, at 64 as he was leaving a gay bar near the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He was in the hospital for four months after the assault with serious head injuries and was never the same after that.

I read an article about Emile Griffith getting mugged and hurt bad so I contacted him on the Internet and chatted with him for a little while before he passed. My dad told me that Bobo Olson was punch drunk (Alzheimer's disease) for a long time and needed his wife and others to take care of him before he passed.

[kara]

Rolly Romero, who is calling out Errol Spence as of late