Tunney-Greb 2

[JAB5239]

Was Greb jobbed out of the second Tunney fight? If he had gotten the decision would there have been need for a third, fourth and fifth Tunney fight ot might he have gone on to get the Carpentier fight and then possibly Dempsey?

[Willie Pep 229]

Was Greb jobbed out of the second Tunney fight? If he had gotten the decision would there have been need for a third, fourth and fifth Tunney fight ot might he have gone on to get the Carpentier fight and then possibly Dempsey?

It depends on how the fight ended. If all we are doing is flipping the controversial UD to Greb then . . .

. . . maybe Greb gets the Carpentier fight in '24 but -->

1. The second Tunney-Greb fight was in late February 1923. By then Dempsey was already signed to fight Gibbons in Shelby on July 4th and Rickard had spent most of 1923 building up Firpo for a title shot against Dempsey for fall 1923. So Dempsey's schedule was already filled for '23 **

2. An attempt to create a Dempsey-Greb go in '22 went bust when a Pittsburgh promoter couldn't guarantee Dempsey the 300K Kearns was demanding.

3. Plus Greb had a closer relationship with Fitzsimmons than with Rickard and Fitzsimmons wasn't able to match Rickard's guarantees back in 1920/1921:

• Fitzsimmons offered 100K (plus gate) for Dempsey-Greb
• Rickard offered 300K guaranteed for Dempsey-Carpentier

That decision was a no-brainer for Dempsey/Kearns. Easier fight for more money and Kearns always preferred cash up front, he didn't like having to depend on gate receipts.

You have to remember all this would be playing out before Rickard pulled off the first million dollar gate (Dempsey-Carpentier). Rickard had actually lost money on the Dempsey-Brennan MSG go in 1921. The Garden wasn't big enough for a Dempsey fight, Rickard realized he needed a stadium, so he built one. (Boyles Thirty Acres.)

Then of course a ringworn and tired Dempsey ran off to Hollywood in 1924.

By the time Dempsey finally returns Greb had already dropped two close decisions to Tiger Flowers and then was lost to us on the operating table in 1926.

I think to force a Dempsey fight you have to go back to the Tunney-Greb II fight and do more than just flip the UD decision.

IMHO Greb has to first dominate Tunney and then dominate Carpentier, and he has to do all that in 1923 not 1924.**

Then maybe the money would have been there for a Dempsey-Greb go in early 1924. (By then Kearns was demanding a 500K guarantee, which he got from Rickard for Firpo.)

Truth be told I really don't think Dempsey-Greb was actually ever close to happening. Just something the pundits like to write about in slow news weeks. Sorry, I know you feel that Greb deserved a shot at the HW title but I think the deal of the cards (timeline) played against it.

**Tunney and Carpentier didn't tangle until 1924.

P.S. Sorry I got so wordy but the 1922-23 season for Dempsey was a complicated one. Notice I didn't even mention Harry Wills.

[JAB5239]

It depends on how the fight ended. If all we are doing is flipping the controversial UD to Greb then . . .

. . . maybe Greb gets the Carpentier fight in '24 but -->

1. The second Tunney-Greb fight was in late February 1923. By then Dempsey was already signed to fight Gibbons in Shelby on July 4th and Rickard had spent most of 1923 building up Firpo for a title shot against Dempsey for fall 1923. So Dempsey's schedule was already filled for '23 **

2. An attempt to create a Dempsey-Greb go in '22 went bust when a Pittsburgh promoter couldn't guarantee Dempsey the 300K Kearns was demanding.

3. Plus Greb had a closer relationship with Fitzsimmons than with Rickard and Fitzsimmons wasn't able to match Rickard's guarantees back in 1920/1921:

• Fitzsimmons offered 100K (plus gate) for Dempsey-Greb
• Rickard offered 300K guaranteed for Dempsey-Carpentier

That decision was a no-brainer for Dempsey/Kearns. Easier fight for more money and Kearns always preferred cash up front, he didn't like having to depend on gate receipts.

You have to remember all this would be playing out before Rickard pulled off the first million dollar gate (Dempsey-Carpentier). Rickard had actually lost money on the Dempsey-Brennan MSG go in 1921. The Garden wasn't big enough for a Dempsey fight, Rickard realized he needed a stadium, so he built one. (Boyles Thirty Acres.)

Then of course a ringworn and tired Dempsey ran off to Hollywood in 1924.

By the time Dempsey finally returns Greb had already dropped two close decisions to Tiger Flowers and then was lost to us on the operating table in 1926.

I think to force a Dempsey fight you have to go back to the Tunney-Greb II fight and do more than just flip the UD decision.

IMHO Greb has to first dominate Tunney and then dominate Carpentier, and he has to do all that in 1923 not 1924.**

Then maybe the money would have been there for a Dempsey-Greb go in early 1924. (By then Kearns was demanding a 500K guarantee, which he got from Rickard for Firpo.)

Truth be told I really don't think Dempsey-Greb was actually ever close to happening. Just something the pundits like to write about in slow news weeks. Sorry, I know you feel that Greb deserved a shot at the HW title but I think the deal of the cards (timeline) played against it.

**Tunney and Carpentier didn't tangle until 1924.

P.S. Sorry I got so wordy but the 1922-23 season for Dempsey was a complicated one. Notice I didn't even mention Harry Wills.

Outstanding post, honestly.

[Ivich]

It depends on how the fight ended. If all we are doing is flipping the controversial UD to Greb then . . .

. . . maybe Greb gets the Carpentier fight in '24 but -->

1. The second Tunney-Greb fight was in late February 1923. By then Dempsey was already signed to fight Gibbons in Shelby on July 4th and Rickard had spent most of 1923 building up Firpo for a title shot against Dempsey for fall 1923. So Dempsey's schedule was already filled for '23 **

2. An attempt to create a Dempsey-Greb go in '22 went bust when a Pittsburgh promoter couldn't guarantee Dempsey the 300K Kearns was demanding.

3. Plus Greb had a closer relationship with Fitzsimmons than with Rickard and Fitzsimmons wasn't able to match Rickard's guarantees back in 1920/1921:

• Fitzsimmons offered 100K (plus gate) for Dempsey-Greb
• Rickard offered 300K guaranteed for Dempsey-Carpentier

That decision was a no-brainer for Dempsey/Kearns. Easier fight for more money and Kearns always preferred cash up front, he didn't like having to depend on gate receipts.

You have to remember all this would be playing out before Rickard pulled off the first million dollar gate (Dempsey-Carpentier). Rickard had actually lost money on the Dempsey-Brennan MSG go in 1921. The Garden wasn't big enough for a Dempsey fight, Rickard realized he needed a stadium, so he built one. (Boyles Thirty Acres.)

Then of course a ringworn and tired Dempsey ran off to Hollywood in 1924.

By the time Dempsey finally returns Greb had already dropped two close decisions to Tiger Flowers and then was lost to us on the operating table in 1926.

I think to force a Dempsey fight you have to go back to the Tunney-Greb II fight and do more than just flip the UD decision.

IMHO Greb has to first dominate Tunney and then dominate Carpentier, and he has to do all that in 1923 not 1924.**

Then maybe the money would have been there for a Dempsey-Greb go in early 1924. (By then Kearns was demanding a 500K guarantee, which he got from Rickard for Firpo.)

Truth be told I really don't think Dempsey-Greb was actually ever close to happening. Just something the pundits like to write about in slow news weeks. Sorry, I know you feel that Greb deserved a shot at the HW title but I think the deal of the cards (timeline) played against it.

**Tunney and Carpentier didn't tangle until 1924.

P.S. Sorry I got so wordy but the 1922-23 season for Dempsey was a complicated one. Notice I didn't even mention Harry Wills.

First class post!

[Anthony342]

Was Greb jobbed out of the second Tunney fight? If he had gotten the decision would there have been need for a third, fourth and fifth Tunney fight ot might he have gone on to get the Carpentier fight and then possibly Dempsey?

How many rounds had you sparred at this point? You look messed up in that pic.

[JAB5239]

How many rounds had you sparred at this point? You look messed up in that pic.

Lol, I haven't kept count, but I'd guess I've sparred thousands of rounds between boxing, Muay Thai and kickboxing. That picture was the end of the fight before last. I just stopped my opponent but I was tired. I didn't do much running because my knees are shot and I tore my bicep in training leading up to the fight. My left bicep still has a lump from where I tore it, though it's fully healed now. Truth is cardio has never been my strong suit and though I train hard, every fight is tough at my age. My mouthpiece is blue and I couldn't wait to get it out. I tried to upload a clip to share with Pep as he said he wanted to see me fight but im computer illiterate. . I don't claim to be world class, but I'm not ashamed either.

[Dr. Z]

Was Greb jobbed out of the second Tunney fight? If he had gotten the decision would there have been need for a third, fourth and fifth Tunney fight ot might he have gone on to get the Carpentier fight and then possibly Dempsey?

Post the fight reviews all we will talk about it. Tunney offered Greb a 6th fight! Greb declined refused saying Tunney had become " too big for him. " More like he was too good for him. Greb fought quite a few bigger men

Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual "free-wheeling" style

Interesting call if a form or ring justice point of view with Greb smashing his head into Tunney face for the first fight and taking the decision. Tunney got this decision, and did not deserved it, according to the press. Note that many felt Greb clinched a lot in the fight. Why are none of these fights on film?!

[JAB5239]

Post the fight reviews all we will talk about it. Tunney offered Greb a 6th fight! Greb declined refused saying Tunney had become " too big for him. " More like he was too good for him. Greb fought quite a few bigger men



Interesting call if a form or ring justice point of view with Greb smashing his head into Tunney face for the first fight and taking the decision. Tunney got this decision, and did not deserved it, according to the press. Note that many felt Greb clinched a lot in the fight. Why are none of these fights on film?!

You keep saying Greb smashed his head into Tunney's face in the first fight, yet Tunney himself disagrees with that and I don't recall any newspapers reporting it. Greb should have also gotten the decision in the second fight but was robbed. And yes, Tunney had certainly improved as well as gotten bigger. And Greb was still blind in one eye. One has to wonder if Tunney would have beaten Greb at all if Harry had two good eyes.

[JAB5239]

https://********/SflrK60JMyY

[Dr. Z]

You keep saying Greb smashed his head into Tunney's face in the first fight, yet Tunney himself disagrees with that and I don't recall any newspapers reporting it. Greb should have also gotten the decision in the second fight but was robbed. And yes, Tunney had certainly improved as well as gotten bigger. And Greb was still blind in one eye. One has to wonder if Tunney would have beaten Greb at all if Harry had two good eyes.

Where does Tunney disagree with that?I never read it? Please list the source. I want to read what Tunney says.

I have shown your his corner says he was butted multiple times. They say it, Besides Tunney might not remember the fight. He was cut badly form a clash or heads / head butt butt in round one. It is likely that type of damage can be caused not from Greb's first, but form ramming his head into Greb face. The worst cuts in boxing are caused form a clash of heads.

Tunney received a standing ovation from the loss of a lot of blood by going the distance in the 15 round fight.