Beyond The Ring by Jeffrey T Sammons

[Ivich]

Bought this book on the recommendation of a poster here.
Just had a quick glance at it not impressed so far.
He spells John C Heenans middle name as CAMEL,it's actually CARMEL.,

He states Jake Kilrain was six foot, he was actually five feet ten and a half.

He states categorically that Fitz punched Sharkey in the groin when that has never been satisfactorily determined.

He says Wyatt Earp the referee of the fight was an experienced referee ,he wasn't .

He says Earp was a US marshall ,he wasn't.

.He spells Paul Berlenbach's name Berhlenbach.

Seven errors in just a cursory trawl through the book.
Littel errors to be sure ,but if you get the little things wrong,who is to say you have the bigger things right?

It may improve but one thing stands out already,he is no boxing man.

[QueensburyRules]

Bought this book on the recommendation of a poster here.
Just had a quick glance at it not impressed so far.
He spells John C Heenans middle name as CAMEL,it's actually CARMEL.,

He states Jake Kilrain was six foot, he was actually five feet ten and a half.

He states categorically that Fitz punched Sharkey in the groin when that has never been satisfactorily determined.

He says Wyatt Earp the referee of the fight was an experienced referee ,he wasn't .

He says Earp was a US marshall ,he wasn't.

.He spells Paul Berlenbach's name Berhlenbach.

Seven errors in just a cursory trawl through the book.
Littel errors to be sure ,but if you get the little things wrong,who is to say you have the bigger things right?

It may improve but one thing stands out already,he is no boxing man.

- - Bob Mee in his Bare Fists mostly history of English with sprinkle of American Bare Knuckle fights spells Heenan's middle name as Camel, and I'll take him and Sammons over the new monkey on BS History Forum.

Oh, and Kilrain was actually 5-11 &1/8th.

I know because I made that up and I know, you know.

[GhostofDempsey]

Petty nitpicking. This book was written and published pre-internet. Originally published in 1988, the author didn't have access to the "internet experts" like yourself to fact check whether a fighter was 6' tall or 5'11". I'm sure during his research he may have encountered different sources, which may have provided conflicting accounts of a given fighter's weight, height, and the length of his fingernails.

I've seen "boxing men" who have written books with multiple inaccuracies or conflicting info that contradicts another "boxing man's" written works.

[Ivich]

Bought this book on the recommendation of a poster here.
Just had a quick glance at it not impressed so far.
He spells John C Heenans middle name as CAMEL,it's actually CARMEL.,

He states Jake Kilrain was six foot, he was actually five feet ten and a half.

He states categorically that Fitz punched Sharkey in the groin when that has never been satisfactorily determined.

He says Wyatt Earp the referee of the fight was an experienced referee ,he wasn't .

He says Earp was a US marshall ,he wasn't.

.He spells Paul Berlenbach's name Berhlenbach.

Seven errors in just a cursory trawl through the book.
Littel errors to be sure ,but if you get the little things wrong,who is to say you have the bigger things right?

It may improve but one thing stands out already,he is no boxing man.

More inaccuracies Sammons says Joe Louis made the famous quote ,"he can run but he can't hide about his 1st fight with Bob Pastor,wrong he made it about Billy Conn.

He says Jack Roper was 39 when he fought Louis,he was35

He says Roper had been ko'd 20 times ,it was 14.
Now 10 errors.

Sloppy research!

Nobody needs the internet to know how to spell a fighter's name.

That the quote he attributes to the Louis v Pastor fight actually refers to the Louis v Conn fight.

A simple check of the Ring Record Book would have given him Roper's age and ring record.

Ditto Wyatt Earp's history could have been confirmed at any public library.

Predictable objections from two proven bare-faced liars. The pathetic knee jerk response I was fully expecting.

Delved into the 50's section of the book.
The IBC,Carbo,Palermo,Truman Gibson,James Norris,Kefauver,etc

Sammons is sounder on this era,possibly because it is more reliably documented .

So the jury is still out on whether my £25 was well spent or not.

[Willie Pep 229]

God you guys can't settle on a fighter's height and weight now - we argue about them all the time.

Earp's brother Virgil was a Deputy U.S. Marshall at the time of the OK Corral mess and made his younger brothers Wyatt and Morgan temporary deputies that day.

Earp was given legal law enforcement authority (titles) several times throughtout his life, e.g. in Witchita Kansas and as the leader of a federal posse that hunted down his brother's killers.

Although Wyatt wasn't actually a Marshall at fight time he often played up the title as though it was his, and it was his common moniker amongst his contemporaries. Like the many retired Colonels, from temporary formed militias, throughout American history.

Sammons wasn't a 'fight guy' he was an African American university history professor with several other non boxing works to his credit.

I did have a personal conversation with Hank Kaplan once who thought the work Beyond the Ring an excellent effort. But then what does Hank Kaplan know he doesn't post on BS.