Who'd win, Laszlo Papp or Joey Giardello??

[edgarg]

Papp was a tremendous fighter 3 Olympic Golds, Amateur record 312-6. that record was only equalled 20 years later by Teofilo Stevenson No headguards in Papp's days were just like Pros. Turned pro at the late age of 31. Forced by his annoyed Communist Govt into retirement, when signed to fight Joey Giardello. - Giardello was a top US middleweight and then champion.

in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century.

He was only 5'5", built like an oak tree, and always had an extra gear, or many gears if needed. Refused to lose. Very hard to hit and FAST with a KO punch.

Giardello, was a highly experienced US top Middleweight, fought **** Tiger several times, and beat some very good fighters , excellent boxer.

Head to head, who would have won.

[Ivich]

Papp was a tremendous fighter 3 Olympic Golds, Amateur record 312-6. that record was only equalled 20 years later by Teofilo Stevenson No headguards in Papp's days were just like Pros. Turned pro at the late age of 31. Forced by his annoyed Communist Govt into retirement, when signed to fight Joey Giardello. - Giardello was a top US middleweight and then champion.

in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century.

He was only 5'5", built like an oak tree, and always had an extra gear, or many gears if needed. Refused to lose. Very hard to hit and FAST with a KO punch.

Giardello, was a highly experienced US top Middleweight, fought **** Tiger several times, and beat some very good fighters , excellent boxer.

Head to head, who would have won.

To all intents and purposes Papp was a pro fighting green amateurs.
Papp's record is underwhelming imo, what are his best wins?
Folledo no5 ? Leahy may have been no10?

Ranked fighters in the 3 years Papp was in the Ring ratings include .
Downes
Pender
Fullmer
Robinson
Tiger
Giambra
Bahama
Brennan
Carter
Fernandez
Benvenuti
Mazzinghi
Archer
Torres
Moyer
Hank
Smith
Giardello
But you won't find any of them on Papp's record.




Good fighter and good puncher but not a great fighter.imo
Giardello, if in shape beats Papp .

"in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century." Which of the above? Can we have some names to support this?

[edgarg]

To all intents and purposes Papp was a pro fighting green amateurs.
Papp's record is underwhelming imo, what are his best wins?
Folledo no5 ? Leahy may have been no10?

Ranked fighters in the 3 years Papp was in the Ring ratings include .
Downes
Pender
Fullmer
Robinson
Tiger
Giambra
Bahama
Brennan
Carter
Fernandez
Benvenuti
Mazzinghi
Archer
Torres
Moyer
Hank
Smith
Giardello
But you won't find any of them on Papp's record.




Good fighter and good puncher but not a great fighter.imo
Giardello, if in shape beats Papp .

"in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century." Which of the above? Can we have some names to support this?

YOu can look it up and get all the names you want, you seem such a great researcher... His amateur career is studded with star Russians and Cubans, who were then the best amateurs in the world. They were taken as children and lived after for nothing but boxing. COMMUNIST COLD WAR DICTATORS etc.etc

So don't talk nonsense about "green amateurs. None was a green amateur. He was KOd a couple of times but also thrashed those same opponents soundly, gibing away maybe 8"in height and 10" in reach. He had 53 1st rd KOs, and, naturally, very bad hand trouble. . He fought who he was TOLD to fight. Hungary was a small time country in the Communist world and got no special favours. Papp had to sneak off to Vienna to TRAIN and fight, and eventually by the time he was caught he was too popular to stop him. As long as he stayed in Europe....

THREE GOLD MEDALS...Never before done. and NOT done again for TWENTY years by Cuba's Stevenson, then 20 years later by Cuba's Savon.. No one before him had won more than ONE. He won 12 of his 13 Olympic fights without losing a round, and dropped only one in his last win,.. against JOSE TORRES -whom he beat. None since

How many Gold medalists became Word Champion , even in the 15 round era. Scads of them. And good long reigning titlists. Those Americans you quote, all ,good or great, could have gone to Europe. DID THEY???

Papp beat up and KD the guy who beat Sugar Ray R around when he made his middleweight comeback. He came to Europe.

I sugest just one thing for you. Please look at a few of his fights on Youtube and you'll see the "terrier tearing at the bull" kind of fight.

[Ivich]

YOu can look it up and get all the names you want, you seem such a great researcher... "in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century." They were taken as children and lived after for nothing but boxing. COMMUNIST COLD WAR DICTATORS etc.etc

So don't talk nonsense about "green amateurs. None was a green amateur. He was KOd a couple of times but also thrashed those same opponents soundly, gibing away maybe 8"in height and 10" in reach. He had 53 1st rd KOs, and, naturally, very bad hand trouble. . He fought who he was TOLD to fight. Hungary was a small time country in the Communist world and got no special favours. Papp had to sneak off to Vienna to TRAIN and fight, and eventually by the time he was caught he was too popular to stop him. As long as he stayed in Europe....

THREE GOLD MEDALS...Never before done. and NOT done again for TWENTY years by Cuba's Stevenson, then 20 years later by Cuba's Savon.. No one before him had won more than ONE. He won 12 of his 13 Olympic fights without losing a round, and dropped only one in his last win,.. against JOSE TORRES -whom he beat. None since

How many Gold medalists became Word Champion , even in the 15 round era. Scads of them. And good long reigning titlists. Those Americans you quote, all ,good or great, could have gone to Europe. DID THEY???

Papp beat up and KD the guy who beat Sugar Ray R around when he made his middleweight comeback. He came to Europe.

I sugest just one thing for you. Please look at a few of his fights on Youtube and you'll see the "terrier tearing at the bull" kind of fight.

When you make a statement the onus is on YOU to prove it when you are called on it.
This below is pure bull**** and we both know it!
"in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century."
So these anonymous men voted for Papp over
Ali
Louis
Armstrong
Pep
Robinson
B Leonard
Duran
Dempsey
Moore
Greb
Langford
Johnson
Yeah sure!

Show me ONE LIST by a credible boxing man that even has Papp in its all time top ten middles? I've seen only one other guy ever make the claims you make for Papp that was on another site. and he got banned for being a loony.

Jose Torres was more or less a novice when he fought Papp.
Papp was fighting men over 6feet? Name some?
Papp fought men with 10 inches more reach?Well tell us what Papp's reach was?
"Papp had to sneak away to train and fight in Vienna?"

So the Hungarian authorities didn't know he was fighting, is that what you are saying? You do know his fights were televised don't you?

Do you also know that of his 29 pro bouts only13 of them were in Vienna?

He fought in Denmark Italy.Spain Germany7times Yugoslavia,France 3 times.But the Hungarian government didnt know? Is that what you are saying? That his fights were not on national TV nor were they reported in the national press?
You matched Papp and Giardello in a PROFFESIONAL fight ! I couldnt give a stuff what Papp did as an amateur and if you think he didnt get the same treatment and support as the Cubans you're naive!

Papp beat a 34 years old Ralph Tiger Jones having his last fight.in1962Jones had won just 1 of his last5 fights! Jones beat Robinson in1955,7 years earlier"!lol

Hungary has never been small time in the communist world, I've been there, its bloody huge and very rich!

Papp didn't sneak off anywhere he was subsidised by the Government and never had to work for a living like many countries amateurs including the UK's.

All these star studded top amateurs from Cuba and Russia you say Papp beat?
Name 2 top Cubans, and 2 top Russian amateurs he beat?
Papp won gold in the 48 Olympics no Russian or Cubans entered.
Papp won gold at the 52 OlympicsRussia entered a team Papp fought no Russian ,Cuba did not compete.
Papp won gold at the 56 Olympics he fought no Russian or Cuban.

Cuba did not go Communist until1959, prior to that its boxing program was virtually non existent!
Cuba did not begin to win medals until1960.

Papp turned pro in May1957 he never faced the top Cubans because they did not exist !
Neither did he meet top Russians, Boris Tishin is the only one he faced!

Papp won the European middleweight title from Christensen on a cut eye Christensen weighed under 150lbs! in their rematch Christensen had beefed up to 152 .5lbs!lol

Giardello beat
Tiger
Mims
Boyd
Durando
Sandy
Cotton
Calhoun
Mueller
Greaves
Jones
Vejar
Green
Hank
Robinson
Rivero
Turner
Panter
Cartier
Langlois
Giambra


His record ****s all over Papp's
ps I watched Papp fight
Scott
Leahy [lost 3 of his last 4 fights]
Aldridge
On TV when they happened.
Could have gone to Europe?
Carter fought in Paris,London x2 S/Ax2
Giardello fought in Germany and UK
Tiger fought in Germany .and in the UK about 20 times
Robinson fought in France, Germany, UK,Switzerland, Austria [Vienna in62]

Giardello is a top 20 all time middleweight .
Papp isnt top 35 ,he doesn't have the resume.

[QueensburyRules]

YOu can look it up and get all the names you want, you seem such a great researcher... His amateur career is studded with star Russians and Cubans, who were then the best amateurs in the world. They were taken as children and lived after for nothing but boxing. COMMUNIST COLD WAR DICTATORS etc.etc

So don't talk nonsense about "green amateurs. None was a green amateur. He was KOd a couple of times but also thrashed those same opponents soundly, gibing away maybe 8"in height and 10" in reach. He had 53 1st rd KOs, and, naturally, very bad hand trouble. . He fought who he was TOLD to fight. Hungary was a small time country in the Communist world and got no special favours. Papp had to sneak off to Vienna to TRAIN and fight, and eventually by the time he was caught he was too popular to stop him. As long as he stayed in Europe....

THREE GOLD MEDALS...Never before done. and NOT done again for TWENTY years by Cuba's Stevenson, then 20 years later by Cuba's Savon.. No one before him had won more than ONE. He won 12 of his 13 Olympic fights without losing a round, and dropped only one in his last win,.. against JOSE TORRES -whom he beat. None since

How many Gold medalists became Word Champion , even in the 15 round era. Scads of them. And good long reigning titlists. Those Americans you quote, all ,good or great, could have gone to Europe. DID THEY???

Papp beat up and KD the guy who beat Sugar Ray R around when he made his middleweight comeback. He came to Europe.

I sugest just one thing for you. Please look at a few of his fights on Youtube and you'll see the "terrier tearing at the bull" kind of fight.

- - Tiger Jones a legit contender with a recent all time scalp when Lazlo fought him in a good fight.

Papp the Man and Papp the Fighter greatly exceeds the usual suspects found in the History forum who would quake, quiver and quack under the Communism Papp was forced to live under where whole families suddenly went missing in the dead of the night.

[Ivich]

When you make a statement the onus is on YOU to prove it when you are called on it.
This below is pure bull**** and we both know it!
"in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century."
So these anonymous men voted for Papp over
Ali
Louis
Armstrong
Pep
Robinson
B Leonard
Duran
Dempsey
Moore
Greb
Langford
Johnson
Yeah sure!

Show me ONE LIST by a credible boxing man that even has Papp in its all time top ten middles? I've seen only one other guy ever make the claims you make for Papp that was on another site. and he got banned for being a loony.

Jose Torres was more or less a novice when he fought Papp.
Papp was fighting men over 6feet? Name some?
Papp fought men with 10 inches more reach?Well tell us what Papp's reach was?
"Papp had top sneak away top train and fight in Vienna?"

So the Hungarian authoritIes didnt know he was fighting is that what you are saying? You do know his fights were televised don't you?

Do you also know that of his 29 pro bouts only13 of them were in Vienna?

He fought in Denmark Italy.Spain Germany7times Yugoslavia,France 3 times.But the Hungarian government didnt know? Is that what you are saying? That his fights were not on national TV nor were they reported in the national press?
You matched Papp and Giardello in a PROFFESIONAL fight ! I couldnt give a stuff what he did as an amateur and if you think he didnt get the same treatment and support as the Cubans you're naive!
Papp beat a 34 years old Ralph Tiger Jones having his last fight.in1962Jones had won just 1 of his last5 fights! Jones beat Robinson in1957,5 years earlier"!lol
Hungary has never been small time in the communist world, I've been there, its bloody huge and very rich!
Papp didn't sneak off anywhere he was subsidised by the Government and never had to work for a living like many countries amateurs including the UK's.

All these star studded top amateurs from Cuba and Russia you say Papp beat?
Name 2 top Cubans, and 2 top Russian amateurs he beat?
Papp won gold in the 48 Olympics no Russian or Cubans entered.
Papp won gold at the 52 OlympicsRussia entered a team Papp fought no Russian ,Cuba did not compete.
Papp won gold at the 56 Olympics he fought no Russian or Cuban.
Cuba did not go Communist until1959, prior to that its boxing program was virtually non existent!
Cuba did not begin to win medals until1960.
Papp turned pro in May1957 he never faced the top Cubans because they did not exist !
Neither did he meet top Russians, Boris Tishin is the only one he faced!
Papp won the European middleweight title from Christensen on a cut eye Christensen weighed under 150lbs! in their rematch Christensen had beefed up to 152 .5lbs!lol

Giardello beat
Tiger
Mims
Boyd
Durando
Sandy
Cotton
Calhoun
Mueller
Greaves
Jones
Vejar
Green
Hank
Robinson
Rivero
Turner
Panter
Cartier
Langlois
Giambra


His record ****s all over Papp's
ps I watched Papp fight
Scott
Leahy
Aldridge
On TV when they happened.
Could have gone to Europe?
Carter fought in Paris,London x2 S/Ax2
Giardello fought in Germany and UK
Tiger fought in Germany .and in the UK about 20 times
Robinson fought in France, Germany, UK,Switzerland, Austria [Vienna in62]

Giardello is a top 20 all time middleweight .
Papp isnt top 35 ,he doesn't have the resume.

Tiger Jones beat Robinson in1955. Robinson had fought just 6 rds in the previous 3 years.

Jones fought Papp in his last fight in1962
That is
SEVEN YEARS LATER. . Jones was last ranked in1958 FOUR YEARS BEFORE HE FOUGHT PAPP
Little details like that matter in assessing fighters.

Or at least they do to sensible people!

[QueensburyRules]

Tiger Jones beat Robinson in1955. Robinson had fought just 6 rds in the previous 3 years.

Jones fought Papp in his last fight in1962
That is
SEVEN YEARS LATER. . Jones was last ranked in1958 FOUR YEARS BEFORE HE FOUGHT PAPP
Little details like that matter in assessing fighters.

Or at least they do to sensible people!

- - Mumbling to hisself now. It's gotten that dire wif no fig leaf to be found anymore.

[edgarg]

When you make a statement the onus is on YOU to prove it when you are called on it.
This below is pure bull**** and we both know it!
"in the late 1980s Papp was chosen by Promoters, Historians Writers and Commissions, to be the best boxer, amateur or professional of the 20th century."
So these anonymous men voted for Papp over
Ali
Louis
Armstrong
Pep
Robinson
B Leonard
Duran
Dempsey
Moore
Greb
Langford
Johnson
Yeah sure!

Show me ONE LIST by a credible boxing man that even has Papp in its all time top ten middles? I've seen only one other guy ever make the claims you make for Papp that was on another site. and he got banned for being a loony.

Jose Torres was more or less a novice when he fought Papp.
Papp was fighting men over 6feet? Name some?
Papp fought men with 10 inches more reach?Well tell us what Papp's reach was?
"Papp had top sneak away top train and fight in Vienna?"

So the Hungarian authorities didnt know he was fighting is that what you are saying? You do know his fights were televised don't you?

Do you also know that of his 29 pro bouts only13 of them were in Vienna?

He fought in Denmark Italy.Spain Germany7times Yugoslavia,France 3 times.But the Hungarian government didnt know? Is that what you are saying? That his fights were not on national TV nor were they reported in the national press?
You matched Papp and Giardello in a PROFFESIONAL fight ! I couldnt give a stuff what he did as an amateur and if you think he didnt get the same treatment and support as the Cubans you're naive!
Papp beat a 34 years old Ralph Tiger Jones having his last fight.in1962Jones had won just 1 of his last5 fights! Jones beat Robinson in1957,5 years earlier"!lol
Hungary has never been small time in the communist world, I've been there, its bloody huge and very rich!
Papp didn't sneak off anywhere he was subsidised by the Government and never had to work for a living like many countries amateurs including the UK's.

All these star studded top amateurs from Cuba and Russia you say Papp beat?
Name 2 top Cubans, and 2 top Russian amateurs he beat?
Papp won gold in the 48 Olympics no Russian or Cubans entered.
Papp won gold at the 52 OlympicsRussia entered a team Papp fought no Russian ,Cuba did not compete.
Papp won gold at the 56 Olympics he fought no Russian or Cuban.
Cuba did not go Communist until1959, prior to that its boxing program was virtually non existent!
Cuba did not begin to win medals until1960.
Papp turned pro in May1957 he never faced the top Cubans because they did not exist !
Neither did he meet top Russians, Boris Tishin is the only one he faced!
Papp won the European middleweight title from Christensen on a cut eye Christensen weighed under 150lbs! in their rematch Christensen had beefed up to 152 .5lbs!lol

Giardello beat
Tiger
Mims
Boyd
Durando
Sandy
Cotton
Calhoun
Mueller
Greaves
Jones
Vejar
Green
Hank
Robinson
Rivero
Turner
Panter
Cartier
Langlois
Giambra


His record ****s all over Papp's
ps I watched Papp fight
Scott
Leahy
Aldridge
On TV when they happened.
Could have gone to Europe?
Carter fought in Paris,London x2 S/Ax2
Giardello fought in Germany and UK
Tiger fought in Germany .and in the UK about 20 times
Robinson fought in France, Germany, UK,Switzerland, Austria [Vienna in62]

Giardello is a top 20 all time middleweight .
Papp isnt top 35 ,he doesn't have the resume.

The fact are that Papp had to SNEAK to Vienna to train and box. The facts are that when Papp was on his way to fight Giardello, The Hungraian Govt. pulled his passport and ordered him to stay in Buda and train the Hungarian team.

You have your opinion, you saw 3 of Papp's fights when he was conserving his hands against breaks, but still won. You were lucky to see him . I wasn't that lucky ,I only saw him as an amateur, in Dublin when he was beaten at 19 years of age, I met him then and we spoke through the interpreter of the team. I also met Julius Torma later a Gold Medal winner also. .Then again in London the next year when he won the first Gold Medal. We exchanged a few harmless letters, written by a friend. (but even they had to pass through a censor)

I have my opinion and it differs from yours because I know that guy would never allow himself to be beaten. But why do you have to be so aggressive about it, as if you were ready to kill someone.. You sound unhappy. How's your blood pressure. Mine is fine. Never mind responding.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Lazlo was 31 years old making his pro debut and 38 in his last fight.





Laszlo.jpg

[Ivich]

The fact are that Papp had to SNEAK to Vienna to train and box. The facts are that when Papp was on his way to fight Giardello, The Hungraian Govt. pulled his passport and ordered him to stay in Buda and train the Hungarian team.

You have your opinion, you saw 3 of Papp's fights when he was conserving his hands against breaks, but still won. You were lucky to see him . I wasn't that lucky ,I only saw him as an amateur, in Dublin when he was beaten at 19 years of age, I met him then and we spoke through the interpreter of the team. I also met Julius Torma later a Gold Medal winner also. .Then again in London the next year when he won the first Gold Medal. We exchanged a few harmless letters, written by a friend. (but even they had to pass through a censor)

I have my opinion and it differs from yours because I know that guy would never allow himself to be beaten. But why do you have to be so aggressive about it, as if you were ready to kill someone.. You sound unhappy. How's your blood pressure. Mine is fine. Never mind responding.

Papp fought in
7 European countries Austria,France Yugoslavia,Italy, Spain, Denmark,and Germany and he fought in the last 6 more times than in Austria.
You are trying to construct a case where Papp was fighting for the European title and his fights were widely reported in the newspapers,televised on national TV and through out Europe and yet the Hungarian government were unaware this was happening?
Have you the slightest idea how ludicrous this scenario you have concocted is? I myself saw 3 of his fights on TV when they happened and I've seen others .
You never saw him fight yet you confidently state that,"he would never allow himself to be beaten"but he was beaten as an amateur and on his way to being beaten by 149lbs Christenson when the Dane sustained a bad cut.

"Looping lefts from " Gentleman Chris " hit Papp in the 3rd. After a brutal exchange both men came out with cuts: Papp in the forehead, Chris above the right eye.

In the 4th Papp fired away at the body, but the seasoned Dane covered himself expertly. A right hook dropped the Dane for an 8 count, but Chris fought back, cutting Papp again, now above the right eye.

In the 6th it looked as if Christensen was on his way to outboxing Papp who suddenly looked tired and clumsy. But a right hook from the Hungarian further damaged Christensen's eye. Blood poured. It came as no surprise when the ring doctor halted the bout in the interval before round 7."



Papp fought ONE Ring ranked fighter Luis Folledo hardly a legend.
Papp could have fought any of the top ranking Americans in those 7 European countries, but he didnt, he fought a past his sell by date journeyman in Randy Sandy 25-21-2, Sandy had won just 2 of his last 12 fights ,would have 2 more lose them and retire,
and a washed up Ralph Jones having his last fight,Jones had won 1 of his last 6 fights and that over a journeyman.
I'm not unhappy, I'm just allergic to hero worshipping BULL ****, allergic to posters who when requested to provide proof of their statements tell you to look it up yourself,because they know they have no facts to back up their statements.
I'm also allergic to posters who when asked to provide a single list by a universally recognized boxing historian that Papp was ever considered more than a decent contender, that he was ever ranked higher than number 4 in his 3 years in the ratings duck the request ,Posters that, when asked which experts rank Papp in any all time top ten middleweight list ignore the question.