Who Was The Most Complete Heavyweight Champ Skill Wise?

[Willie Pep 229]

Five is probably Holmes.

Na, Mt. Rushmore is a tribute to the men who changed America.

The Mt. Rushmore of prize fighting is not about how good you think they were in the ring, it is about these great men who changed the game and the society surrounding it.

MT Rushmore

Washington --> Independence
Jefferson --> Rise of the Common Man
Lincoln --> Unity
T. Roosevelt --> Embracement of the Land

MT Rushmore of Boxing

Sullivan --> National Sports Hero.
Dempsey --> The Golden Age of Sport
Louis --> Promise of Equality Fulfilled.
Ali --> An Athlete's Right to Social Adwareness

Holmes was a great fighter, one of the very best, but for all his prowess he didn't change the game of boxing nor did he change America.

The MT Rushmore of Boxing needs to be more than just one more forum list. It needs to be something special.

[Willow The Wisp]

Na, Mt. Rushmore is a tribute to the men who changed America.

The Mt. Rushmore of prize fighting is not about how good you think they were in the ring, it is about these great men who changed the game and the society surrounding it.

MT Rushmore

Washington --> Independence
Jefferson --> Rise of the Common Man
Lincoln --> Unity
T. Roosevelt --> Embracement of the Land

MT Rushmore of Boxing

Sullivan --> National Sports Hero.
Dempsey --> The Golden Age of Sport
Louis --> Promise of Equality Fulfilled.
Ali --> An Athlete's Right to Social Adwareness

Holmes was a great fighter, one of the very best, but for all his prowess he didn't change the game of boxing nor did he change America.

The MT Rushmore of Boxing needs to be more than just one more forum list. It needs to be something special.

Good post.

[Ivich]

Na, Mt. Rushmore is a tribute to the men who changed America.

The Mt. Rushmore of prize fighting is not about how good you think they were in the ring, it is about these great men who changed the game and the society surrounding it.

MT Rushmore

Washington --> Independence
Jefferson --> Rise of the Common Man
Lincoln --> Unity
T. Roosevelt --> Embracement of the Land

MT Rushmore of Boxing

Sullivan --> National Sports Hero.
Dempsey --> The Golden Age of Sport
Louis --> Promise of Equality Fulfilled.
Ali --> An Athlete's Right to Social Adwareness

Holmes was a great fighter, one of the very best, but for all his prowess he didn't change the game of boxing nor did he change America.

The MT Rushmore of Boxing needs to be more than just one more forum list. It needs to be something special.

A poster asked me a question, about who I rank where, I answered it. Where you take it after I've answered it is up to you.Ive no further interest in it.I made the thread about who was the most complete heavyweight,not about Mount Rushmore
If I was making a historically important list I'd put Corbett before Sullivan because he brought respectability to the sport.I'd then put Johnson in as the first black heavyweight champ.Dempsey next for the reason you gave.Louis for his tenure and how he carried himself and then Ali for the big purses he made possible for fighters to demand.
Its debateable to what extent any of them actually changed America imo America had segregated Armed Forces in WW2and there was plenty of racial prejudice in the US right up to comparatively recent times.
You can say they changed boxing, more than that is a bridge too far imo.

[The Old LefHook]

A poster asked me a question, about who I rank where, I answered it. Where you take it after I've answered it is up to you.Ive no further interest in it.I made the thread about who was the most complete heavyweight,not about Mount Rushmore
If I was making a historically important list I'd put Corbett before Sullivan because he brought respectability to the sport.I'd then put Johnson in as the first black heavyweight champ.Dempsey next for the reason you gave.Louis for his tenure and how he carried himself and then Ali for the big purses he made possible for fighters to demand.
Its debateable to what extent any of them actually changed America imo America had segregated Armed Forces in WW2and there was plenty of racial prejudice in the US right up to comparatively recent times.
You can say they changed boxing, more than that is a bridge too far imo.

Stone Mountain is incredible. Base some of your examples off that, will you? You will find lots of similarities between Stone Mountain and boxing!

[Willie Pep 229]

A poster asked me a question, about who I rank where, I answered it. Where you take it after I've answered it is up to you.Ive no further interest in it.I made the thread about who was the most complete heavyweight,not about Mount Rushmore
If I was making a historically important list I'd put Corbett before Sullivan because he brought respectability to the sport.I'd then put Johnson in as the first black heavyweight champ.Dempsey next for the reason you gave.Louis for his tenure and how he carried himself and then Ali for the big purses he made possible for fighters to demand.
Its debateable to what extent any of them actually changed America imo America had segregated Armed Forces in WW2and there was plenty of racial prejudice in the US right up to comparatively recent times.
You can say they changed boxing, more than that is a bridge too far imo.

Agree most of the way - try not to take it personally. No doubt Corbett brought more respectability to the the game but I think it more important that Sullivan made the entire nation take notice. Two different points but I agree yous is valid.

I would not put Johnson in there by any means. He was bad for Boxing, and set black fighters back an entire generation. He had an opportunity to change the world but his behavior made it impossible for the reformers to move on his behalf, so is my opinion.

Louis on the other hand taught the American people (the non racist ass holes) to accept and respect the physical prowess of a black athlete. I believe that opened the door for all other American sport to begin desegregation. I believe no Louis, no Jackie Robinson. Baseball wouldn't have ended segregation until the late 1950s (post Brown v School Board) if Louis hadn't paved the way.

I would argue that it was Dempsey who brought about the first big purses for fighters not Ali. Ali and Frazier benefited from the door Dempsey, Tunney, and Rickard opened.

But let's not beat each other up about this, it's just opinion and I meant no disrespect.

* Sometime back I created a list of the ten who I thought were the most important to the progress of boxing and Corbett was on my list for two reasons, the one you suggested and also he taught the game that technique was now mandatory, no longer would mere power and toughness be enough.

[Willie Pep 229]

Stone Mountain is incredible. Base some of your examples off that, will you? You will find lots of similarities between Stone Mountain and boxing!

I thought the WOKEs were going to take the entire mountain down and put it in storage with the other statues.

[Willie Pep 229]

Stone Mountain is incredible. Base some of your examples off that, will you? You will find lots of similarities between Stone Mountain and boxing!

Wait, I have to make a serious complaint about Stone Mountain.

What the hell is Jeff Davis doing up there? It should have been, Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet.

It bugs me to no end that just to protect Lee's marble man image that each failure Lee had they have sought to blame on Longstreet.

It seems the only Southerner who respected Longstreet was Lee himself, the rest have tried to make him the 'scape goat.

[QueensburyRules]

Wait, I have to make a serious complaint about Stone Mountain.

What the hell is Jeff Davis doing up there? It should have been, Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet.

It bugs me to no end that just to protect Lee's marble man image that each failure Lee had they have sought to blame on Longstreet.

It seems the only Southerner who respected Longstreet was Lee himself, the rest have tried to make him the 'scape goat.

- - Dead Confeds make easy work to beat up on for modern sissies who otherwise can't punch their weight in popcorn...

Davis was The Politician who had Britain making Rebel warships purchased with monies the Brits put up for Southern Cotton. The Yanks also purchased Southern Cotton during that war which is the reason they were getting asses kicked at the start of the War as the Rebs had modern firearms vs the Yanks outdated 18th Century firearms.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Dead Confeds make easy work to beat up on for modern sissies who otherwise can't punch their weight in popcorn...

Davis was The Politician who had Britain making Rebel warships purchased with monies the Brits put up for Southern Cotton. The Yanks also purchased Southern Cotton during that war which is the reason they were getting asses kicked at the start of the War as the Rebs had modern firearms vs the Yanks outdated 18th Century firearms.

Davis couldn't deliver on British recognition; the blockade runners were kept in Liverpool port once the Southern real money (speice) dried up; he never united the South encountering resistance as far west as Arkansas and east as Georigia. What accomplishments could you possibly be speaking of?

Longstreet was Lee's 'Old Work Horse' and was a major instrument in every one of Lee's early victories, and had Lee listened to Longstreet on day two, Gettysburg may have been a Southern victory or at least just a marginal defeat, instead of complete failure it was.

Even Jefferson Davis thought his own effort was wanting.

He doesn't belong next to those other two generals, Longstreet does.

P.S. I won't lambast the 50+ Davis for marrying his 15 year old second cousin (actually that's kind of OK with me, LOL) but I won't abide a man who spends his last years selling life insurance.

Selling insurance! First I'd open my wrists before I would stoop to selling insurance.

BTW You know I was a teacher, what did you do for a living? You don't seem to be a government man. Sales, craft, sports, or management? I am assuming you weren't a "doctor, lawyer, or Indian chief," so was it "tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor"?

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Dead Confeds make easy work to beat up on for modern sissies who otherwise can't punch their weight in popcorn...

Davis was The Politician who had Britain making Rebel warships purchased with monies the Brits put up for Southern Cotton. The Yanks also purchased Southern Cotton during that war which is the reason they were getting asses kicked at the start of the War as the Rebs had modern firearms vs the Yanks outdated 18th Century firearms.

Oh! Please I wasn't beating up on the rebels who fought that war, I was bad mouthing subsequent generations who historically attacked Longstreet so as to excuse Lee's failures. It still goes on to this day.

Let's make damn sure you got that straight!