Originally posted by billeau2
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George Foreman Is Overrated
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Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post
That night (Holyfield I) he was an ATG - but does one night get you there?
That night there are only a few who could have beaten him, only a few.
Instead he had to settle for whooping the guy who whooped and retired Vander.
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
Neither Ward nor Gatti beat most of the top 10 of their division and than beat an opponent as good as Ali either.
"the grit and determination he showed was the epitome of an all time great" Which implies that the criteria to be considered an ATG is "grit and determination!" Frazier beat about 40% of the top ten during his career, as I posted there were plenty he did not face,and, coincidentally perhaps, many of them were punchers.
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Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
Perfect example of the dialectic of opinion when a fighter's greatness is revisited. Ellis was probably better than most people realize, Frazier was not his best version when he fought Big George... although its a major assumption to use this as an excuse for his efforts. Frazier beat some excellent fighters and that is more than some great heavyweights did resume wise. And of course... the Ali trilogy!
Ellis
Mathis
Blin
Foster
Chuvalo
Quarry
Lewis
Patterson
Foster B
In the same timescale window.
Whose fault was that?Last edited by Ivich; 06-08-2022, 02:20 PM.
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Originally posted by Ivich View Post
He also defended his "title",against 3 unranked journeymen. If Frazier wasn't in the best condition when he took on Foreman because he had been beating up on no hopers,while Ali was taking on ;
Ellis
Mathis
Blin
Foster
Chuvalo
Quarry
Lewis
Patterson
Foster B
In the same timescale window.
Whose fault was that?
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Originally posted by Ivich View PostNo they didn't, but this was your post.
"the grit and determination he showed was the epitome of an all time great" Which implies that the criteria to be considered an ATG is "grit and determination!" Frazier beat about 40% of the top ten during his career, as I posted there were plenty he did not face,and, coincidentally perhaps, many of them were punchers.Willie Pep 229 likes this.
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Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
I clearly wrote "And his third fight with Ali......the grit and determination he showed was the epitome of an all time great, even in a losing effort." Leading up to the first Ali fight he beat Quarry, Bonavena and Ellis, who was at the top of his game and WBA champion. He then beat Ali who was still near prime and would go on to show his greatness. Besides Louis and Ali, you can look at almost every other champion and see they missed as many top ten fights as Frazier. Joe also showed immense heart against Foreman when he kept getting up and wanting to fight. So in my opinion, it wasn't just one fight that makes him an all time great, but a series of fights and the era he fought in.
Heart,like grit, and determination are wonderful attributes, but not enough to qualify for all time greatness.Each man must make his own list fpr greatness and I certainly have no criticism to offer to you. His defences against the forenamed 3 journeymen impact on his standing imo,but that's just my opinion.
Willie Pep 229
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Originally posted by MikeyMike100 View Post
Ive seen people rate him top 5MikeyMike100 likes this.
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Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post
Well they're wrong. And you're also wrong to say he's over rated, as has already been pointed out here.MikeyMike100 likes this.
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