Who Was Your Yoka?

[MisterHardtop]

Just talking about this on a thread the other day.

What the hell happened? Did you watch him training in person?

It is a strange case and yes I watched him train on many occasions.

I was in Belarus when he competed at the European championships, eventually losing to Sergei Lyakovich.
I covered the Commonwealth Games that same year and of course covered his urn to the super heavyweight gold at the 2000 Olympics.

He was truly considered the next Lennox Lewis, as to what happened next I really can't tell you. He was given one of the biggest professional contracts in British pro boxing at the time, appeared on the BBC regularly...maybe that was the problem. He was given too much, too soon. I saw a definite decrease in his work ethic in the gyms, he took sparring lightly, fluctuated in weight and seemed to enjoy celebrity more than fighting (his time in America did not help).

Age is another, lesser talked about factor. He was almost 30 was he won Olympic gold and by the time he was KOd by Sprott, he was already 36. There are rarely any serious heavyweight title contenders of that age, especially ones with numerous defeats on their records by then.

[QueensburyRules]

I can't remember. I keep remembering Golota dropped the ball in the second half.

- - Well, as unpredictably dirty of Golota could melt down to, Ruiz was allowed his jab and grab and then lowblow style, but anytime Golota got on top of him, the ref would pull him off.

Same tactics used for any of l'l floydy fights, Khan fights, and most infamously, nay shamelessly Loma vs Salido officiated by the always regrettable Laurence Cole who allowed Salido to hit on the break, low blow, headbutt, elbow, rabbit punch and clinch at will against a 1 fight novice Loma who was pulled off anytime he got on top of Salido who also missed weight by 4 lbs.

[P to the J]

It is a strange case and yes I watched him train on many occasions.

I was in Belarus when he competed at the European championships, eventually losing to Sergei Lyakovich.
I covered the Commonwealth Games that same year and of course covered his urn to the super heavyweight gold at the 2000 Olympics.

He was truly considered the next Lennox Lewis, as to what happened next I really can't tell you. He was given one of the biggest professional contracts in British pro boxing at the time, appeared on the BBC regularly...maybe that was the problem. He was given too much, too soon. I saw a definite decrease in his work ethic in the gyms, he took sparring lightly, fluctuated in weight and seemed to enjoy celebrity more than fighting (his time in America did not help).

Age is another, lesser talked about factor. He was almost 30 was he won Olympic gold and by the time he was KOd by Sprott, he was already 36. There are rarely any serious heavyweight title contenders of that age, especially ones with numerous defeats on their records by then.

Interesting that, much better to getter a take from someone other than noobs like me! One of the underlying reasons you’ve given is exactly the one that some other guy said, but you actually personally witnessed the drop-off in intensity with the heavy contract.

The age, well…. We’ll see how the likes of Joe Joyce gets on as the competition gets stiffer. Looked unbeatable so far, but wish this division could have moved quicker for him.

[The Old LefHook]

A lesson in all this is that sometimes we are too eager to anoint a fighter. We all want to tout a great before our peers even know him. We get overly excited about a dramatic KO, and proclaim the fighter a monster, exempli gratia Jermall Charlo. If he had not knocked one opponent out quite dramatically, he would not now have the reputation he does. Even his brother has gotten a little share of the glory for Jermall's knockout, simply because they are twins.

Don't get excited because your man is dropping 2nd and 3rd raters like dirty rags. Don't let such victories as Mosley's KO of Shannon Taylor fool you. It means almost nothing. To know a man is great takes victories over every kind of fighter (swarmers, runners. boxers, boxer/punchers, KO punchers), and not just mediocre ones. How can a man show he is a great champion before he is a champion? He can't.

As a boxing fan you think you know your man well, before he has finished the above checklist. But can we? We have to have seen him do enough. In our eagerness we often misjudge what "enough," is. None of us has been fooled by a prospect for the last time, probably, unless we die right now.

[QueensburyRules]

Interesting that, much better to getter a take from someone other than noobs like me! One of the underlying reasons you’ve given is exactly the one that some other guy said, but you actually personally witnessed the drop-off in intensity with the heavy contract.

The age, well…. We’ll see how the likes of Joe Joyce gets on as the competition gets stiffer. Looked unbeatable so far, but wish this division could have moved quicker for him.

- - Joyce obliterating Dubois is better than Oddly's best win by a long shot. We'll see that more emphatically after Dubois beats up poor Bryan for his WBA belt who is no more than a tub of goo that DKing has fallen in luv with.

[markusmod]

- - Well, as unpredictably dirty of Golota could melt down to, Ruiz was allowed his jab and grab and then lowblow style, but anytime Golota got on top of him, the ref would pull him off.

Same tactics used for any of l'l floydy fights, Khan fights, and most infamously, nay shamelessly Loma vs Salido officiated by the always regrettable Laurence Cole who allowed Salido to hit on the break, low blow, headbutt, elbow, rabbit punch and clinch at will against a 1 fight novice Loma who was pulled off anytime he got on top of Salido who also missed weight by 4 lbs.

It was style that prevented Ruiz from getting another Tua result

[P to the J]

- - Joyce obliterating Dubois is better than Oddly's best win by a long shot. We'll see that more emphatically after Dubois beats up poor Bryan for his WBA belt who is no more than a tub of goo that DKing has fallen in luv with.

Well sure, yeah. That was kind of my point, because Joyce got started at 32, and it doesn’t seem to have troubled him so far, but then again, I suppose the difference he’s actually training.

[MisterHardtop]

Interesting that, much better to getter a take from someone other than noobs like me! One of the underlying reasons you’ve given is exactly the one that some other guy said, but you actually personally witnessed the drop-off in intensity with the heavy contract.

The age, well…. We’ll see how the likes of Joe Joyce gets on as the competition gets stiffer. Looked unbeatable so far, but wish this division could have moved quicker for him.

Joe Joyce is an interesting case. He is already 36 years old and in a division where the top 3 is as good as any top heavyweight group in the last 25 or 30 years, namely Usyk, Fury and Joshua. Joyce for his part is big and hits hard but is very very slow, I can't see him beating any of the top 3. A fight with someone like Whyte would be a good barometer although the proposed Joseph Parker fight is also a good idea. The problem is, he has been moved along staggeringly slowly and I can't see him beating the champion (any of Usyk/Fury/Joshua), which means he could pick up some sort of "regular" belt along the way.

If the times were different as Joyce was a top contender 8 or 9 years ago, he probably could have picked up a WBC strap.

[P to the J]

Joe Joyce is an interesting case. He is already 36 years old and in a division where the top 3 is as good as any top heavyweight group in the last 25 or 30 years, namely Usyk, Fury and Joshua. Joyce for his part is big and hits hard but is very very slow, I can't see him beating any of the top 3. A fight with someone like Whyte would be a good barometer although the proposed Joseph Parker fight is also a good idea. The problem is, he has been moved along staggeringly slowly and I can't see him beating the champion (any of Usyk/Fury/Joshua), which means he could pick up some sort of "regular" belt along the way.

If the times were different as Joyce was a top contender 8 or 9 years ago, he probably could have picked up a WBC strap.

Oh he beats Whyte, and he’s fitter than Parker, so I’d favour him there, too.

The thing is, I think he’s got the durability to stay with any of these guys at the top, and possibly even win, but the age and mileage are definite variables to consider.

You’ve got to say that of the 3, though he’s the most destructive puncher and possibly the most dangerous to Joyce’s face, AJ’s also the most vulnerable to defeat by the same man. Anyone’s fight IMO.

Usyk’s clearly a better boxer, but I don’t think he knocks Joyce out, and I reckon Joyce might be strong enough and long enough to live with Fury’s size and use of range.



TLDR: he’s old, but all things being even, beats the also-rans, and lives with any of the so-called top 3 at minimum.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Tough fight for Verg coming off a near death encounter. Sure hope they got his health sorted because he looked to have an incredible future that boxing fans need.