Archie moore is one of the most skillful fighters ever

[Willie Pep 229]

No,you're thinking of Debbie played by a young Natalie Wood,Vera Miles is in love with Jeffrey Hunter in the movie.The film like the book was based on the story of Cynthia Ann Parker's life she was Quanah's Mother.Vera Miles character is Laurie Jorgenson sister of Brad Jorgenson played by Harry Carey Jnr his father was in John Ford's early westerns and his trademark pose was to hold his elbow with his hand.At the end of the film Wayne adopts this gesture whilst framed in the doorway as a tribute to Carey Snr. Harry Carey Jnr was a mainstay in many of Ford's westerns including 3 God Fathers ,She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, and Wagon Master,along with his close friend Ben Johnson,both were excellent horsemen.

OK since everyone is throwing in the trivia -

Natalie Wood is Ethan's daughter not his nice - that bastard John Wayne cheated with his own brother's wife. But Hollywood in the 1950s wasn't going to touch that angle of the story.

Supposedly John Ford included some very subtle hints that something wasn't 'right' between Ethan and the girl's (Wood) mother.

[billeau2]

This is the problem with "lists." There are so many great fighters lol. I have always thought Moore was a great... Hard to even put him in a weight class, kind of like the man who idolzed him James Toney, in that he fought well in many weight classes. But definitely one of the best... I would put him light heavy on a short list with Tunney and a few others depending on which way the wind blows lol.

[Ivich]

OK since everyone is throwing in the trivia -

Natalie Wood is Ethan's daughter not his nice - that bastard John Wayne cheated with his own brother's wife. But Hollywood in the 1950s wasn't going to touch that angle of the story.

Supposedly John Ford included some very subtle hints that something wasn't 'right' between Ethan and the girl's (Wood) mother.

Sorry I have the book here, there is no reference to Debbie being Ethan's daughter nor is that implied in it ,Ethan in the book is called Amos.In the film there are subtle references to Martha being in love with Ethan and Ethan's reaction when he comes back to the burning ranch implies it was reciprocated.The most moving scene is when Martha is lovingly folding Ethan's "Johnny Reb coat".Ward Bond playing the Captain of the Texas Rangers and also being a Reverend notices this and delicately and deliberately turns his back on the by play. There is no implication that Ethan is the father of his brother Adam's daughter in fact his conduct around here is scrupulously correct,for example he kisses her on the forehead.I have the film and, since it is one of my favourites I can virtually turn the sound off and supply the dialogue myself.Charley McCrory [Ken Curtis] a Texas Ranger and rival of Martin Pawley,[Jeffrey Hunter] was a member of the Sons Of The Pioneers singing group and appeared in many Ford westerns,he ended up playing Festus in Gunsmoke.
Lars Jorgensen father of Brad Jorgensen [John Qailan ]played Vera Miles father in The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance
His wife in the film and mother of Brad Jorgensen [Harry Carey Jnr ] was played by Harry Carey Jnr's real mother ,Olive Carey wife of Harry Carey Snr to whom the film is dedicated. Lana Wood, Natalie's sister played her as the younger Debbie.John Wayne's
son Patrick played the young Lt Greenhill.

if I've rambled too long on a subject not akin to boxing but I've seen several posts about footballers,basketball stars, and wrestlers, so perhaps I may be excused?

[billeau2]

Charles was still a top fighter at that time, was still beating top fighters. He wasn't shot at all, not even close actually.

Johnson beat Charles and Moore, two Top 10 ATG's for my money. Both when they were still top fighters. If that's not a great fighter then I'm not sure what is.

Johnson lost to Moore 4 of the 5 times yes, but most of those were very close fights. He showed that he was on Moore's level despite losing 4 of them. Even the one he was stopped in, ironically the one fight that Johnson was winning handily at the time.

If I was the one doin the evalutin I would first declare James Toney the leader of the free Universe!

Seriously I do think that when we are looking at these "lists" and deciding on greatness based on a series of fights it is important not to get hung up on the final decision. As you say it is actually more relevant that Johnson fought competative fights with Moore. Its more relevant than who got the decision imo.

What pops out and should make people take notice are things like when Charley Burley really did a number on Archie Moore. Like an appraiser who values homes and might have to explain why a particular house sold for a great amount... I think someone should be able to explain how Burley managed that feat. It makes sense that fighters like Johnson, Charles and Moore were competative with each other because they were all great fighters.

[StarshipTrooper]

No fighter from the WW2 era is "one of the most skilled boxers ever". For his time he was technically advanced, sure.

Very poor and painfully obvious attempt at a troll. 0 for effort, -10 for effectiveness. Go away now, Little Girl

[GhostofDempsey]

Very poor and painfully obvious attempt at a troll. 0 for effort, -10 for effectiveness. Go away now, Little Girl

Trolling is all you appear to do on here. Haven’t seen anything from you outside of some childish taunts and middle school level insults. Queen of Chelsea…

[Willie Pep 229]

Sorry I have the book here, there is no reference to Debbie being Ethan's daughter nor is that implied in it ,Ethan in the book is called Amos.In the film there are subtle references to Martha being in love with Ethan and Ethan's reaction when he comes back to the burning ranch implies it was reciprocated.The most moving scene is when Martha is lovingly folding Ethan's "Johnny Reb coat".Ward Bond playing the Captain of the Texas Rangers and also being a Reverend notices this and delicately and deliberately turns his back on the by play. There is no implication that Ethan is the father of his brother Adam's daughter in fact his conduct around here is scrupulously correct,for example he kisses her on the forehead.I have the film and, since it is one of my favourites I can virtually turn the sound off and supply the dialogue myself.Charley McCrory [Ken Curtis] a Texas Ranger and rival of Martin Pawley,[Jeffrey Hunter] was a member of the Sons Of The Pioneers singing group and appeared in many Ford westerns,he ended up playing Festus in Gunsmoke.
Lars Jorgensen father of Brad Jorgensen [John Qailan ]played Vera Miles father in The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance
His wife in the film and mother of Brad Jorgensen [Harry Carey Jnr ] was played by Harry Carey Jnr's real mother ,Olive Carey wife of Harry Carey Snr to whom the film is dedicated. Lana Wood, Natalie's sister played her as the younger Debbie.John Wayne's
son Patrick played the young Lt Greenhill.

if I've rambled too long on a subject not akin to boxing but I've seen several posts about footballers,basketball stars, and wrestlers, so perhaps I may be excused?

OK interesting - wasn't my personal insight by any means . . . Just the product of film classes in college. And those kind of academic analysis of film can open up many a rabbit hole.

So you say there was no suggestion that Ethan was the true father?

That sort of makes Ethan's personal decision/intention to kill the girl (Wood), once he finds her, a bit pretentious, no? **

A father's right to life and death over his child has a long historical lineage - but it's presumptuous to impose it on another man's child. That takes away his nobility and makes Ethan an upstart.

I don't like it!

** Please don't tell me that in the novel we are lead NOT believe Ethan intends to kill the girl. If that is the case the character becomes one dimensional. (But if that is so, actually do tell me anyway.)

P.S. Wayne's Harry Carry pose at the end was no doubt a tribute to the actor and a valentine to his wife. Legend has it Wayne pull it out at the last minute and her emotional reaction to it is genuine. (I think Carry had passed by then.) But I learned that in film class as well. So

[Good ol' Douglas]

Very poor and painfully obvious attempt at a troll. 0 for effort, -10 for effectiveness. Go away now, Little Girl

Yeah mate, Pele is as skillful as Messi and Ronaldo. Right...

[Ivich]

- - Here is Natalie looking in love with Hunter.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049730...v1=still_frame

No matter since I ain't seen the movie since I was a kid, but yeah, movie based on Chief Nokona and Cynthia Ann Parker who when returned to her family against her will refused to eat or drink anything thing until she died. Terrible times can never be captured by HollowWood.

No, Debbie is looking terrified because Ethan Edwards, [JohnWayne] is about to shoot her. Martin Pawley[Jeffrey Hunter,] is her adopted brother and steps between them in a Mexican stand off.

[StarshipTrooper]

Yeah mate, Pele is as skillful as Messi and Ronaldo. Right...

How do you know that he wasn't? Oh, almost forgot: You here to troll not say anything remotely intelligent. Phuck off, Princess. Ignored.