Heavyweight who fought the best comp in the division.... Top 5

[billeau2]

What about Jim Corbett. He fought Sullivan, Jeffries 2 times, Peter Jackson, Fitzsimmons, Tom Sharkey, and Charles Mitchell. Let's remember that the only reason why Jeffries won the first fight is because Corbett wore himself by kick his ass for 25 rounds.

Holyfield and Corbett lost a lot... It is what it is, does that make them worse than guys who won a lot? No... does it make them worse that guys who won a lot against similarly great competition? To me it does.

[mrbig1]

I think Jack Johnson was overrated. tommy burns was like 5'7" tall and 169 pounds Ketchel was a middleweight. Jim Fynn at best was a light heavyweight at best. While Johnson was 6-3 and anywhere from 205-220.

[Willie Pep 229]

I think Jack Johnson was overrated. tommy burns was like 5'7" tall and 169 pounds Ketchel was a middleweight. Jim Fynn at best was a light heavyweight at best. While Johnson was 6-3 and anywhere from 205-220.

I'm with you (and it's an unpopular opinion to hold around here) . . . Great fighter, master boxer for his time but probably has been overrated for social and political reasons. Certainty championed by Nat Fleischer with much post career ink that other fighters didn't get.

He was, weight wise, in the 190s for Burns and Ketchel and the low 200's for Jeffries and Flynn.

When he started showing up over 220 he was pretty much finished as a great fighter, Moran and Willard.

[Marchegiano]

Were talkin Heavyweight champs... Not guys who SHOULD have been champs. Its fodder for another thread for sure but its just not the same.

I had to re-read to make sure I did not.

"should" appears one time in this thread, now twice. Written by you, not me. I believe my question is bolder than should. I asked who IS.

This man cleared the division, period. That is what happened. Title does not ask for champions, I just shoehorned in the question. Titles asks what HWs cleared their divisions. Robert Delaney cleared the HW division in 1863-1864. Absolutely, totally, and without contrary claim.


I won't budge unless you make me. Best get more clever than that last one bud.

[Marchegiano]

I think Jack Johnson was overrated. tommy burns was like 5'7" tall and 169 pounds Ketchel was a middleweight. Jim Fynn at best was a light heavyweight at best. While Johnson was 6-3 and anywhere from 205-220.

I'm with you (and it's an unpopular opinion to hold around here) . . . Great fighter, master boxer for his time but probably has been overrated for social and political reasons. Certainty championed by Nat Fleischer with much post career ink that other fighters didn't get.

He was, weight wise, in the 190s for Burns and Ketchel and the low 200's for Jeffries and Flynn.

When he started showing up over 220 he was pretty much finished as a great fighter, Moran and Willard.

Interesting, I go the other way TBH.

Tommy Burns is seriously underrated.

[Marchegiano]

What about Jim Corbett. He fought Sullivan, Jeffries 2 times, Peter Jackson, Fitzsimmons, Tom Sharkey, and Charles Mitchell. Let's remember that the only reason why Jeffries won the first fight is because Corbett wore himself by kick his ass for 25 rounds.

****, did he fight Jackson? Rhetorical, I'll look that up before you respond. I'm just expressing, I done ****ed up Corbett by memory. I labeled him ducking Jackson....my bad.

[elfag]

agree with Ali, Lewis and Holyfield in the top 5

[Willie Pep 229]

****, did he fight Jackson? Rhetorical, I'll look that up before you respond. I'm just expressing, I done ****ed up Corbett by memory. I labeled him ducking Jackson....my bad.

Corbett went 61 MQB rounds to a ND with Jackson. - Jackson thought that once Corbett won the title from Sullivan that the public would force Corbett to fight him. He, came to the States just two months later, goes on to win one fight and then (my conjecture) begins to chase Corbett around the country believing he will get a shot at the title.

Corbett had made some possible integration noise about fairness early on, but after winning the title lost interest on making good on that promise and ignored Jackson's challenge. Of course Corbett was put under no public pressure to fight Jackson.

What's odd, and again this is my conjecture, but it seems he, Jackson foolishly believed he would get a fight with Corbett. I say this because he shuts down and has no official fights between November 1892 and March 1898, when he then finally loses in three rounds to a very young Jeffries, coming up. Has one more fight and is done.

He spends the three years theatrical barn storming and fighting exhibitions during this period.

Jackson must have been a shell of the fighter in '98 when he finally comes back, when compared to what he was when he went 61 rounds with Corbett in '91.

It makes you wonder if Jackson was just tired in 1892 and stopped fighting, or really thought Corbett would do the right thing and give him a shot at the title in '93 or '94. He may have 'waited' himself of a career.

[QueensburyRules]

Corbett went 61 MQB rounds to a ND with Jackson. - Jackson thought that once Corbett won the title from Sullivan that the public would force Corbett to fight him. He, came to the States just two months later, goes on to win one fight and then (my conjecture) begins to chase Corbett around the country believing he will get a shot at the title.

Corbett had made some possible integration noise about fairness early on, but after winning the title lost interest on making good on that promise and ignored Jackson's challenge. Of course Corbett was put under no public pressure to fight Jackson.

What's odd, and again this is my conjecture, but it seems he, Jackson foolishly believed he would get a fight with Corbett. I say this because he shuts down and has no official fights between November 1892 and March 1898, when he then finally loses in three rounds to a very young Jeffries, coming up. Has one more fight and is done.

He spends the three years theatrical barn storming and fighting exhibitions during this period.

Jackson must have been a shell of the fighter in '98 when he finally comes back, when compared to what he was when he went 61 rounds with Corbett in '91.

It makes you wonder if Jackson was just tired in 1892 and stopped fighting, or really thought Corbett would do the right thing and give him a shot at the title in '93 or '94. He may have 'waited' himself of a career.

- - Exhibitions and Theatrics payed very well back then for handsome, educated, Black Princes.

Big Fights always problematic were a pain to make at best then and now.

[billeau2]

I had to re-read to make sure I did not.

"should" appears one time in this thread, now twice. Written by you, not me. I believe my question is bolder than should. I asked who IS.

This man cleared the division, period. That is what happened. Title does not ask for champions, I just shoehorned in the question. Titles asks what HWs cleared their divisions. Robert Delaney cleared the HW division in 1863-1864. Absolutely, totally, and without contrary claim.


I won't budge unless you make me. Best get more clever than that last one bud.

I'm the last guy in the room to confuse ability with state sanctioned titles... I have no problem with the point that "official" means little to nothing in so far as ability goes... But before one climbs a mountain.... ya know... and if we want to put fourth ideas that are different than a list of sanctioned heavyweight champions, thats all good... Its just a bit too ambitious for what I was aiming to do. But then again this thread has an ulterior motive and it is not one that makes any champion look better as compared to fighters who might have had some qualifying aspect to similar recognition: Ive mentioned it a few times now and will do so again... The notion that great heavyweights fought similar competition while reigning supreme has to be challenged. Better to look at the general level of ability of the challengers than insisting on fellow ATG Greats at prime level.

Clearing the division, and (I know you may hate me for this but gotta do it...) the Lineal, great Black Fighters who fought fellow greats sometimes many times over, are more than legit... they are ultimately a better measure, just not the mantle I chose to pick up this time round.

The best heavyweights may well have been fighters who never got a chance to show it. And clearing the division out is universal and should be recognized as a greater fiat than fighting mandatories to legitimize the status of a champion.