The Ape Index

[The Old LefHook]

Tommy Burns's +7 is really impressive, considering he was only 5' 7".

[Willie Pep 229]

+4 is not average (typical) in this scale, 0 is. Fury does not look typically proportioned in the ring, to my eyes, his arms look long even for his height, which they indeed are.

You must not have looked at the entire list, since seven people are under +7 on the list, Hearns being lowest at +5.

Marciano and Hatton were both proportioned at -2.5. Duran and Lamotta were at -1.

My mistake - I read the list down (plus the naratives) but I guess I stopped looking at the numbers. I always thought Fury looked ape like in arm length and was suprised he wasn't on the list - also I would have figured that a +4 would have been closer to normal than it appears to be.

There are not too many people who fit into DaVinci's 'man in the circle' (The Golden Ratio 1.61) so I was figuring (wrongly) that anything under five would look proportional to the naked eye but not necessarily be so, guess not.

Some guy (for the life of me I can't remember the title or the author) about 20 years ago wrote a book on the topic, having measured a few thousand people he concluded that people close to the Golden Ratio were superior people.

He claimed that almost all Olympic sprinters were very close to the 'ratio' but then went on to say that these people were not only better athletes but were smarter and more talented than others. He even argued that a woman who was close to perfect in proportion would achieve ******s easier. (That I remember distinctly lol.)

This article argues that ape like (superior reach) makes for a better fighter but I wonder how that sits with pure athleticism.

Duran and Marciano seem to say proportion is better than reach. Do you know Louis and Dempsey's numbers?

P.S. I also remember when the Dudley Moore film "10" came out they were saying the female lead Bo (some last name) measured out as the perfect ratio, thus the cause of her great beauty.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Wilt entirely fills the topic @85" tall and 92" reach = +7 and likely the longest reach of any modern boxer ever and 14" over Ali and 7" over Fury.

Also a better all around athlete than any boxer or fighter. Cosell asks how he's gonna match Ali footspeed which was a bit daft given Wilt could whoop Ali in everything possible on the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcM0Dib1TLQ

[BattlingNelson]

I wanna know who leads the Tyrannosaurus rex index.

[QueensburyRules]

I wanna know who leads the Tyrannosaurus rex index.

- - Gotta be the original Tyson, Mike.

[kafkod]

Where does Tyson Fury fit into this logic. I find it interesting that Liston's predicted height would be 6' 9" same as Fury's natural height with Fury only having a one inch reach advantage.

+4 is not average (typical) in this scale, 0 is. Fury does not look typically proportioned in the ring, to my eyes, his arms look long even for his height, which they indeed are.

You must not have looked at the entire list, since seven people are under +7 on the list, Hearns being lowest at +5.

Marciano and Hatton were both proportioned at -2.5. Duran and Lamotta were at -1.

Reach is fingertip to fingertip with arms outstretched, so shoulder width is included in the number. For his height, Fury is not a broad shouldered guy, but he has extremely long arms, hence the positive Ape index.

Marciano and Hatton both had swarming styles that turned their short arms into an advantage, because they could land punches faster and cleaner at close quarters. But when Hatton fought Floyd the ref continually gave the advantage to the long armed Mayweather by calling break every time Ricky got in close.

[Bundana]

At a height of 5'8" New Zealand welterweight Ted Morgan had an incredible reach of 80" - giving him an ape index of +12!

If we're talking about world champs, I believe it's true that Liston tops the list with +11...

... with Maurice Hooker possibly in 2nd place at +9 (5'11" with an 80" reach).

As for the other end of the scale (Tyrannosaurus Rex), Jose Legra had an ape index of minus 5 (5'8" and 63").


All this is of course only true, if what is listed on BoxRec is correct! Personally I think (from watching his videos), that Legra's reach could be wrong. He does not look like someone with an abnormally short reach for his height. On the other hand, I have no problem believing the numbers for Hooker - who obviously has a monster reach!

[QueensburyRules]

At a height of 5'8" New Zealand welterweight Ted Morgan had an incredible reach of 80" - giving him an ape index of +12!

If we're talking about world champs, I believe it's true that Liston tops the list with +11...

... with Maurice Hooker possibly in 2nd place at +9 (5'11" with an 80" reach).

As for the other end of the scale (Tyrannosaurus Rex), Jose Legra had an ape index of minus 5 (5'8" and 63").


All this is of course only true, if what is listed on BoxRec is correct! Personally I think (from watching his videos), that Legra's reach could be wrong. He does not look like someone with an abnormally short reach for his height. On the other hand, I have no problem believing the numbers for Hooker - who obviously has a monster reach!

- - Boxing is nefariously unreliable in height, weight, and other physiologic measurements.

David Lemieux was notoriously listed with an 64 inch reach for many years as one modern example.

[The Old LefHook]

I have come to believe height is the most played with statistic in sports, which of course affects ape index.

I doubt if a good fighter could ever bottom an AI of -5.

[The Old LefHook]

I just watched a Maurice Hooker fight where they announced his reach as 76 inches. That still make him +5, if he is 5' 11".