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Gene Tunney: Would his style be effective in any era?

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  • #51
    Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post

    I wonder about Tunney's 'racism' - here's a weird theory for you . . . (mine)

    Tunney wanted bad to be more than a pug, and more than a tough Irish kid in a tough Greenwich Village, so he educated himself, in the end he even 'married up' ! He wanted to be a gentleman in the worst way. In a sense he kind of got there, 'in the worst way.'

    So here's the theory . . don't look at his childhood or his neighborhood (inherent) but instead look at the 'educated' opinion of his day: eugenics and all the race theory that went along.

    He loved for people to know he was well read and had opinions to share, he thought highly of himself.

    It is not a reach to think he would have bought in to all the intellectual racism of the day.

    He succeeded in becoming an elitist but he also educated himself into a racist. LOL

    P.S. The Irish thing probably counts too.
    Yes... It was a popular sentiment at the time. You had the Great Gatsby of course, but around the same time a book was written by Jack London, most people feel it was semi autobiographical in Nature... "Martin Eden." It describes very much this desire to use all things to try to improve one's station in life. Like Tunney, who was alas... a pug; London was, at the end of the day, an intelligent Strevedore. And this great tension developed with both men, knowing that despite education and eventual means, Nobody in the Gatsby Class would ever truly accept them as anything more than exotics... Alienated from all classes, London eventually committed suicide and Tunney apparently drunk himself into oblivion.

    I believe that the pathetic and petty nature of America in the 20's with its parvenues and old money, eventually led to the Melting Pot that to this day is probably the true ingenius product that defines America even more than the constitution. Instead of sctratching and clawing with the Jews, the Blacks, the Irish, the Italians (and to quote Archer Bunker "the regular Americans")... to be accepted by a decedent Bourgasei, people embraced being an American. Class consciousness went the way of the Horse and Buggy... At least to the regular folks... There will always be a power elite unfortunately.

    Catcher in the Rye, though later, written by Salinger is really about the same sort of thing... it really hammers the point home IMO.
    Willie Pep 229 likes this.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by The Old LefHook View Post

      By no proof you mean that is what you would prefer to believe. Fart in your own face much?
      Eat glass. By no proof I mean no film of any Greb fight. In case you didn't know.

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      • #53
        Jack London died at age 40 from Uremic poisoning aggravated by a shot of morphine. London had progressive kidney disease.

        An interesting point is that London’s wife Charmain London died in 1955 and her diaries revealed that she had an affair with Harry Houdini. This was a shocking discovery as Houdini was always considered extremely loyal to his wife Bess.
        billeau2 likes this.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
          Jack London died at age 40 from Uremic poisoning aggravated by a shot of morphine. London had progressive kidney disease.

          An interesting point is that London’s wife Charmain London died in 1955 and her diaries revealed that she had an affair with Harry Houdini. This was a shocking discovery as Houdini was always considered extremely loyal to his wife Bess.
          Well Martin Edan was semi autobiographical so I guess London divulged from his experiences concerning his own final end.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
            Catcher in the Rye, though later, written by Salinger is really about the same sort of thing... it really hammers the point home IMO.
            - -Oh, my, U now ensconced wif Salinger, Ginsberg, and Kerouac!

            Elephants & Tigers & Lions & Bears in The Greatest Show on Earth Off Grid of course.

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            • #56
              As fas as punch variety, Tunney had it but didn't always utilize it. He made heavy use of the 1-2 along with lateral movement and circling. I would guess that was a good 60-70% of his offense from the film I've seen.

              Very effective with that alone.

              He was well schooled though. Knew how and when to use other punches plus how to fight on the inside when necessary. He wasn't limited like, say, Wladimir Klitschko.


              Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

              - -Oh, my, U now ensconced wif Salinger, Ginsberg, and Kerouac!

              Elephants & Tigers & Lions & Bears in The Greatest Show on Earth Off Grid of course.
              Billeau2's single off grid thread has contributed more of value to the forums here then your entire posting history.
              Last edited by ShoulderRoll; 11-25-2021, 06:06 AM.
              billeau2 and JAB5239 like this.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

                Yes... It was a popular sentiment at the time. You had the Great Gatsby of course, but around the same time a book was written by Jack London, most people feel it was semi autobiographical in Nature... "Martin Eden." It describes very much this desire to use all things to try to improve one's station in life. Like Tunney, who was alas... a pug; London was, at the end of the day, an intelligent Strevedore. And this great tension developed with both men, knowing that despite education and eventual means, Nobody in the Gatsby Class would ever truly accept them as anything more than exotics... Alienated from all classes, London eventually committed suicide and Tunney apparently drunk himself into oblivion.

                I believe that the pathetic and petty nature of America in the 20's with its parvenues and old money, eventually led to the Melting Pot that to this day is probably the true ingenius product that defines America even more than the constitution. Instead of sctratching and clawing with the Jews, the Blacks, the Irish, the Italians (and to quote Archer Bunker "the regular Americans")... to be accepted by a decedent Bourgasei, people embraced being an American. Class consciousness went the way of the Horse and Buggy... At least to the regular folks... There will always be a power elite unfortunately.

                Catcher in the Rye, though later, written by Salinger is really about the same sort of thing... it really hammers the point home IMO.
                It seems there is yet another conspiracy theory out there: this one is regarding London's death.

                An original and very unpopular rumor was that he off-ed himself over a woman. This has been debunked, although it came from a good source (a friend) it looks like he had some motive to spread the story, but no clue as to why.

                Wonder if London would have been amused? It certainly is a more romantic way to go out, and one has to believe London was a romantic.

                He just might have approved, or maybe even suggested the friend float the story for fun. LOL -- OK, maybe I'm the romantic.

                But a later (conspiracy) theory emerged arguing that London chose to check out early instead of waiting out the suffering of his bad kidneys killing him.

                The problem is that the doctors are adamant that London died naturally from "internal poisoning" - BUT then again they would be the responsible parties for explaining the several empty vials of morphine laying about the floor.

                Kind of a Michael Jackson twist to it. Way too much meds in the hands of the patient and doctors claiming privilege.

                Either way his kidneys took him out not a Hawaiian cutie.
                billeau2 and JAB5239 like this.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by ShoulderRoll View Post

                  Billeau2's single off grid thread has contributed more of value to the forums here then your entire posting history.
                  - -Folks have been "off grid" for 99% of folks' history on this earth and are currently experiencing "off grid" routinely as western democracies lurch into abject failure.

                  Billy's failure to unhitch Salinger, Ginsbert, and Kerouac from this forum shows his limitations in accomplishing his goals as yet.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
                    I say yes. Any time I watch film of him fighting I am struck by how smooth and fluid he moves.

                    If a time machine existed you could transport him to any light heavyweight era and he would be a top fighter in my opinion. Could even be a terror in a few heavyweight eras as well.
                    Tunney invented a whole lot of contemporary boxing moves. he turns his head on a 45 degree angle after throwing a right cross, so the counter left hook is hitting a slanted surface which is also covered in Vaseline. kinda like a russian t34 having shells bounce off its slanted armor.

                    I used to call it riding the punches but its actually a bit different, I noticed james toney using it in those old sparring videos of him vs Danny Green - where the footage is up close and the gloves are bigger slowing it down allowing you to see. he instinctively is always placing his head on angles. tunney did this all the time. Because we are going so far back boxing didnt really polish up its aesthetic as much as today, but the fighters were very crafty and skillful, not to mention tough.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO2f_zAHMuo&t=191s

                    look at old Joes subtle headmovement and angles, watch closely he walks forward the entire time and barely gets hit with any real punches.
                    Last edited by them_apples; 11-25-2021, 12:48 PM.
                    billeau2 likes this.

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                    • #60
                      Tunney and Dempsey were so highly skilled it’s just over the top. Many of the skills/style they exhibited don’t exist today.
                      billeau2 and them_apples like this.

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