Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Gene Tunney: Would his style be effective in any era?

Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post

    I wonder about Tunney's 'racism' - here's a weird theory for you . . . (mine)

    Tunney wanted bad to be more than a pug, and more than a tough Irish kid in a tough Greenwich Village, so he educated himself, in the end he even 'married up' ! He wanted to be a gentleman in the worst way. In a sense he kind of got there, 'in the worst way.'

    So here's the theory . . don't look at his childhood or his neighborhood (inherent) but instead look at the 'educated' opinion of his day: eugenics and all the race theory that went along.

    He loved for people to know he was well read and had opinions to share, he thought highly of himself.

    It is not a reach to think he would have bought in to all the intellectual racism of the day.

    He succeeded in becoming an elitist but he also educated himself into a racist. LOL

    P.S. The Irish thing probably counts too.
    - -That's a decent take on Tunney's background esp the eugenics angle, but I'm not sold on his racism because the virulent nonsensical way moderns are using a term that the majority of prominent scientists have claimed (race)has no scientific basis.

    That ignores the history of the peoples of the world encountering other strange beings for the first time knowing they were of a different stock of mankind. In one of the earliest and most certainly seminal scientific studies ever undertaken, Charles Darwin uses Race(the peoples' concept he grew up with) both in his Origin of the Species Title and as talking points through out, even including the race analogy for a few non human forms. Race will always be viewed differently by, what 7-8 billion folks packing this earth to our ultimate demise?

    There's great pic of prime Tunney in beach garb with a 5-6 yr old black kid he's obviously engaging in conversation in the beach setting. That the kid was there means it was an integrated beach though we don't know if he is with his parents.

    Tunney boxed in the military during WW1 including his overseas service, and may have fought a few blacks, but who could say or bother to find a trail to that answer that is really just a trivial talking point?

    And when it counted most, Tunney was willing to fight Wills in Rickard's elimination tourney he used to coax Dempsey out of retirement. Only Rickard could put together a Wills bout like that and Jack certainly knew Wills had a good chance to beat Tunney to go a title match, but sadly Wills nixed that deal that I've never heard the reason for. I always thought given he had been the first Ring #1 ranked heavy and still in good standing, maybe he thought he was entitled to the shot, and who could blame him?
    billeau2 and Willie Pep 229 like this.

    Comment


    • #42
      I'm not so blown away by the dempsey-tunney-greb trio. Mostly I think in pretty much any other era they'd've had far more losses.

      Billuea puts a respectful spin on it but facts are Tunney couldn't finish off a guy whose last loss was a KO loss that featured multiple KDs prior against a black man with no hope of being champion and not exactly a high KO% to his name. What happens if Tunney has to actually face winners instead?

      It looks like a honkey cricle jerk promoted by honks for honks so honks can circlejerk in public and not feel stupid. That said, if that's my interpretation of them in their time then I probably translate them to new eras quite a lot weaker than most because I am less impressed than most.


      Yeah, Tunney wouldn't look like the relic he is against say Spinks, he'd just be another white boy who took a licking from Spinks is all.



      Comment


      • #43
        If you take the time to really study Dempsey and Tunney their skill level far surpasses most of those that came after them. Dempsey far exceeded the skill level of either Marciano or Frazier. Tunney had few rivals in terms of pure boxing skill in the heavyweight division.

        Both fighters were extremely trained down at the weight they fought. “Not an ounce of fat”.

        Last time I checked Tunney stopped both Carpenter and Gibbons in one sided affairs.

        Comment


        • #44
          I agree that Tunney is the best pure boxer to ever occupy the undisputed heavyweight chair. If not, then he is at least the most well-rount, for he indeed has no weaknesses or flaws in his game or physique. Chin, stamina, discipline, punch variety, footwork, speed, power, and learnt in-fighting from Greb.

          Name a flaw, if you can, other than possibly being a racist, which is a human not a boxing flaw. No one can actually find a flaw, I believe.
          Willie Pep 229 likes this.

          Comment


          • #45
            Tunney fought between 175 and 190. Guys like Michael Spinks, Dwight Qawi, Evander Holyfield and Olexander Usyk all would ravage him. He would run like he did vs Dempsey but all of them would wear him out and get Ko's or TKOs.

            Comment


            • #46
              Tunney did not run from Dempsey aside from fight 2 seventh round. Instead he cleverly boxed.

              As a heavyweight Tunney was a trained down to very low body fat 190 pounds. I would not sell him short vs any past or current heavyweight champion.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
                Tunney did not run from Dempsey aside from fight 2 seventh round. Instead he cleverly boxed.

                As a heavyweight Tunney was a trained down to very low body fat 190 pounds. I would not sell him short vs any past or current heavyweight champion.
                We can't prove it, but I'm very sure he ran from Greb when he was getting battered in their first couple fights. And in the controversial 1924 bout. He never fought a big, tough HW. He never fought anyone over 195 pounds. He'd be able to pick up a LHW trinket but modern too tier CW and HW would beat him.

                Comment


                • #48
                  If there is no proof why mention it?

                  Tunney checked all the boxes. They don’t come greater.

                  He beat Dempsey convincingly twice. The second bout was a few months after Dempsey koed the no 1 prime contender Jack Sharkey with a single punch. If you watch their first bout early on it looks as if Dempsey would overwhelm him but Tunney regrouped and then dominated. Second fight Dempsey was in supreme condition and landed a viscous 5 punch combination that would have stopped an Elephant but Tunney arose, kept his cool, and went on to gain a resounding victory.

                  Size, in the heavyweight division, is way overrated. It’s in vogue today which is unfortunate as we have so many big fighters who can’t fight a lick. Tunney would put most of these unskilled but big fighters to shame. The beauty of boxing are the skills, style, watching toughness and will to win in action. Enjoying a bout because heavyweights are BIG is amateur level crap. Does not impress or interest me one iota.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
                    If there is no proof why mention it?

                    Tunney checked all the boxes. They don’t come greater.

                    He beat Dempsey convincingly twice. The second bout was a few months after Dempsey koed the no 1 prime contender Jack Sharkey with a single punch. If you watch their first bout early on it looks as if Dempsey would overwhelm him but Tunney regrouped and then dominated. Second fight Dempsey was in supreme condition and landed a viscous 5 punch combination that would have stopped an Elephant but Tunney arose, kept his cool, and went on to gain a resounding victory.

                    Size, in the heavyweight division, is way overrated. It’s in vogue today which is unfortunate as we have so many big fighters who can’t fight a lick. Tunney would put most of these unskilled but big fighters to shame. The beauty of boxing are the skills, style, watching toughness and will to win in action. Enjoying a bout because heavyweights are BIG is amateur level crap. Does not impress or interest me one iota.
                    - -Only film I seen was very poor quality and imcomplete.

                    Jack accepted the loss and long count, so no need to go on about what you've never seen.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Mooshashi View Post

                      We can't prove it, but I'm very sure he ran from Greb when he was getting battered in their first couple fights. And in the controversial 1924 bout. He never fought a big, tough HW. He never fought anyone over 195 pounds. He'd be able to pick up a LHW trinket but modern too tier CW and HW would beat him.
                      By no proof you mean that is what you would prefer to believe. Fart in your own face much?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X
                      TOP