Did Ray Leonard Get Fighters At The Right Time?

[GJC]

I think Leonard was a very cagey character but he beat a pretty good version of Benetiz and a good version of Hearns. Personally always seen the Hagler fight as a draw but Hagler fought a ****** fight. Hagler was slipping but I think he had more than enough to beat a guy who had had one fight in 5 years. It was Duran's own fault re the second fight, as a sportsman you should keep yourself in shape the 3rd fight was just a case of who had anything left.

[Princemanspopa]

why is it much more belivable than a hbo doc with experts talking? deep down i think ray didnt want to know with pryor.

LMAO,what a complete and utter newb.If hbo says it's true then it must be true.Aaron Pryor didn't want anything to do with Ray Leonard and these words came from Aaron Pryor himself.You didn't know anything about Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor until you watched the legendary night series.Stop watching this sport as it's clear you don't know a damn thing about it.

The topic at hand is not "who's fault is it that Ray's best wins were against fighters not at their best". The topic is simply whether or not they were at their best. And they clearly weren't. This includes a drained Hearns in the first fight, as Leonard forced him to come in underweight just to get a decent paycheck.

Leonard ducked rematches (after winning) with both Hearns and Duran until he figured they had less in the tank than him. He guessed right on Duran, guessed wrong on Hearns.

And here we have the "DUNCE" mouthing off again on a topic that he quite clearly has no clue about.Thomas Hearns wasn't weight drained dunce,it's easy to go look on boxrec and find out that he weighed in two pounds lighters than the limit and come to the conclusion that he was weight drained,or you could simply watch the fight and know the only thing that drained Hearns of energy was determination and constant pressure.

Ray Leonard never forced Hearns to come in underweight in the first fight,you complete and utter moron.Leonard was suprised himself that Hearns came in at that weight.It was the second fight in which they agreed that Hearns would come in at a lower weight.It was wrong to have made it that way but if you are going to bring this up,then atleast get the correct ****ing fight,you idiot.


Nobody expected Leonard to give Hearns an immediate rematch,not the public,not Emanuel Steward and not even Thomas Hearns.You are also forgetting the fact that he retired due to a legitimate injury,moron.


Quite amazing that a Ray Robinson fanboy would have the nerve to try and discredit any other fighter.God knows how many great black fighters that man ducked throughout his career.

[Obama]

And here we have the "DUNCE" mouthing off again on a topic that he quite clearly has no clue about.Thomas Hearns wasn't weight drained dunce,it's easy to go look on boxrec and find out that he weighed in two pounds lighters than the limit and come to the conclusion that he was weight drained,or you could simply watch the fight and know the only thing that drained Hearns of energy was determination and constant pressure.

Ray Leonard never forced Hearns to come in underweight in the first fight,you complete and utter moron.Leonard was suprised himself that Hearns came in at that weight.It was the second fight in which they agreed that Hearns would come in at a lower weight.It was wrong to have made it that way but if you are going to bring this up,then atleast get the correct ****ing fight,you idiot.


Nobody expected Leonard to give Hearns an immediate rematch,not the public,not Emanuel Steward and not even Thomas Hearns.You are also forgetting the fact that he retired due to a legitimate injury,moron.


Quite amazing that a Ray Robinson fanboy would have the nerve to try and discredit any other fighter.God knows how many great black fighters that man ducked throughout his career.

eRage more please.

Their was a contractual weight stipulation for both fights.

As for the rest of the post, you just make assumptions that aren't true. Didn't forget anything, didn't overlook anything.

[Dynamite Kid]

Sometimes these things happen because they are meant to happen imo.

Its like a fit in shape Bowe getting his ass whipped just as bad when he did train and focus himself for the 2nd Golota fight.


Or like Douglas, Holyfield exposing Tyson's biggest flaw, whether Cus had lived and Rooney continued to train Tyson he would of still come off the rails eventually because that lack of character is in the human being not just the fighter.


I dont mean to bash Tyson but its just an example that sprung to mind.

[Princemanspopa]

eRage more please.

Their was a contractual weight stipulation for both fights.

As for the rest of the post, you just make assumptions that aren't true. Didn't forget anything, didn't overlook anything.

No,you made claims that have no substance.I already told you that Ray Leonard was suprised that Hearns weighed in at 145,now why would he be suprised if there was "contractual weight stipulation"?


Stop telling lies to fit your own agenda dunce.You're the troll here and telling such lies proves it.

[Obama]

No,you made claims that have no substance.I already told you that Ray Leonard was suprised that Hearns weighed in at 145,now why would he be suprised if there was "contractual weight stipulation"?


Stop telling lies to fit your own agenda dunce.You're the troll here and telling such lies proves it.

Because he wasn't surprised.

Learn the definition of troll please. It's what you are, not me.

[Princemanspopa]

Because he wasn't surprised.

Learn the definition of troll please. It's what you are, not me.

Um,yes he was.And yes you are a troll.Making claims such as this makes you a troll,idiot.

[L.Ellerbe]

Just been thinking. Did ray get 2 of his biggest wins due to picking the right moment to fight them?

Hagler was in decline and was 33 years of age. and Ray had invited him to a meal, and noticed hagler was realy enjoying his drink and knew it was the right time. Hagler also was belived to be having drug problems.

The second time he fought duran, he wanted the fight 5 months after the first. because he knew duran really gained weight, and when bob arum when to see duran in traing for the fight, arum said he would be lucky to make LHW. why didnt he just wait a few more months to fight the best duran, and in the 3rd duran was past his best.

Thoughts?

the story behind the ''ray invited him to a meal '' is this

him an leonard met at a bar after 1 of haglers defences...leonard asks hagler ''were are you gonna go from here'' and marvin responded ''i dont know ray,i'm struggling to get motivated'' leonard let hagler have a few more glasses of wine planting the seed in hagler for a fight..ray had already been in the gym having unsanctioned 10round fights with no headguards..

ray was smart for doing that to duran...after that first fight duran went back to panama partying every night and weighed close to 200pounds when he started camp...but angelo dundee wouldnt let ray take a warm up which resulted in dave jacobs quitting because he feared for Rays life if he took a rematch

dont forget in these hagler an duran 3 fights ray was inacive/old as well so its a moot point really

[L.Ellerbe]

The topic at hand is not "who's fault is it that Ray's best wins were against fighters not at their best". The topic is simply whether or not they were at their best. And they clearly weren't. This includes a drained Hearns in the first fight, as Leonard forced him to come in underweight just to get a decent paycheck.

Leonard ducked rematches (after winning) with both Hearns and Duran until he figured they had less in the tank than him. He guessed right on Duran, guessed wrong on Hearns.

your post is full of lies....leonard - hearns was a contractual 147 fight no less...its well known hearns over trained for that fight and a few days before that fight wouldnt allow manny steward to check his weight..
how could they sell a hearns rematch straight away..there wasnt even any talk of a rematch in the immediate aftermath


there was also a rematch put in the clause of the contract of the first fight with leonard having first option on a date with don king even admitting ''they done a better job negotiating than us'' so the fact is leonard didnt deny anyone anything he just called the shots regarding a duran rematch

[dadan]

ray showed improvement in the 2nd fight vs duran, personally no one knows who would win if the 1st duran showed up that night....

i consider rays best win tommy hearns, who couldve been the best 147 ever if not for ray....

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