Era Misconceptions

[Spartacus Sully]

Historically the golden age is the time before the time before the time when everthing was in its rawest and most perfect form. alot of stuff happened in boxing between the greek ages of ****** boxing for their master and when the queensbury came out with his rules.

I think your going to have to go back alot farther then 100 years if you want to find a golden age.

[LondonRingRules]

There are no excuses to be made for Dempsey before he became Champion however. He solidified that he was elite when he beat Fulton in 1918. Langford, Jeannette, and McVea weren't prime anymore but still very dangerous opponents. I also don't see why he couldn't have fought them on his way up like Wills did, why are they only relevant after he became Champion? Wills had fought ALL 3 of those guys while they were still in their prime in the first 4 years of his career, fighting Jeannette a mere 2.4 years into his career, and he'd fight all of them over 20 times throughout his career, in addition to 1 fight with Fulton. Dempsey had fought 1 elite Heavyweight in his first 4 years (Fulton, 1 time), then not again until 8 more years down the road.

** Less than zero excuses for your racial baiting Obamy. I'd remind you again that your giving our noble president a bad name and need to swap out your name.

Of course, since he's half white, yeah, do a hatchet job on him, eh?

Facts are meaningless to you as you repeat the same weary long disproven mantra over and over again and again with no end in sight. No wonder Malcolm left your little black glee club on the dark side of the moon.


We're all still laughin' how Oscar and Ricky were A-level fighters when Floydy fought them but only B level fighters when Manny took on Floydy's abandoned rematch obligations and obliterated them like they were D-level fighters.

That's at you Obamy, not with you.

[JMM-PAC]

** Less than zero excuses for your racial baiting Obamy. I'd remind you again that your giving our noble president a bad name and need to swap out your name.

Of course, since he's half white, yeah, do a hatchet job on him, eh?

Facts are meaningless to you as you repeat the same weary long disproven mantra over and over again and again with no end in sight. No wonder Malcolm left your little black glee club on the dark side of the moon.


We're all still laughin' how Oscar and Ricky were A-level fighters when Floydy fought them but only B level fighters when Manny took on Floydy's abandoned rematch obligations and obliterated them like they were D-level fighters.

That's at you Obamy, not with you.

WHAT? You never make no sense, i never understand a word of what you say!

[Obama]

** Less than zero excuses for your racial baiting Obamy. I'd remind you again that your giving our noble president a bad name and need to swap out your name.

Of course, since he's half white, yeah, do a hatchet job on him, eh?

Facts are meaningless to you as you repeat the same weary long disproven mantra over and over again and again with no end in sight. No wonder Malcolm left your little black glee club on the dark side of the moon.


We're all still laughin' how Oscar and Ricky were A-level fighters when Floydy fought them but only B level fighters when Manny took on Floydy's abandoned rematch obligations and obliterated them like they were D-level fighters.

That's at you Obamy, not with you.

They were semi-elite, and downgraded to good. Most people with common sense would agree with that. They visibly became different fighters after Floyd beat them.

And how many times do you have to get racist? You've been rude to me every post you've ever made.

What's odd is what you quoted was not opinion based whatsoever...I stated facts, and asked a question. So what are you crying about?

[Jim Jeffries]

WHAT? You never make no sense, i never understand a word of what you say!

Anyway. Lol at ***** criticizing a 5-0-2 Jeffries for fighting a past prime Peter Jackson, while slamming Dempsey for not fighting a past prime Langford while on the way up. No credit for pre prime Jim but full credit for prime Jack Johnson for fighting an equally past it (but much more inactive) Jim. Double standards son, and we all know why you have em. You've been a disappointment during your stay with us, much like your namesake.

[Obama]

Anyway. Lol at ***** criticizing a 5-0-2 Jeffries for fighting a past prime Peter Jackson, while slamming Dempsey for not fighting a past prime Langford while on the way up. No credit for pre prime Jim but full credit for prime Jack Johnson for fighting an equally past it (but much more inactive) Jim. Double standards son, and we all know why you have em. You've been a disappointment during your stay with us, much like your namesake.

Yet another racist.

Since you don't know how to read very well, I'll clear up some of your idiotic assumptions:

I consider Johnson's win over Jeffries on the same level as his win over these guys:

Frank Childs (x2), George Gardner, Denver Ed Martin (x2), Jack Munroe, Morris Harris, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tony Ross, Frank Moran, Tom Cowler, and Jack Thompson

As for Jeffries win over Jackson, I don't consider that noteworthy because Jackson was WAY WAY past it. He was past his prime before he retired, and came out of retirement. He was completely shot. Jeffries on the other hand retired in his prime. Jeffries was 35 when he met Johnson, with little wear and tear over his professional career. Jackson was a little older when he met Jeffries, with much more wear and tear over his career, and would be dead from tuberculosis within 3 years.

Bottom line, Johnson fought a B level fighter, Jeffries fought a C level fighter. And besides, I rate Jeffries over Jackson.

[them_apples]

They were semi-elite, and downgraded to good. Most people with common sense would agree with that. They visibly became different fighters after Floyd beat them.

And how many times do you have to get racist? You've been rude to me every post you've ever made.

What's odd is what you quoted was not opinion based whatsoever...I stated facts, and asked a question. So what are you crying about?

stop saying "anyone with common sense would agree with that" to back up your own statements. I disagree with just about every racially biased post you write.

[Obama]

stop saying "anyone with common sense would agree with that" to back up your own statements. I disagree with just about every racially biased post you write.

a) You're an idiot

b) There's nothing racially biased about any of my posts. A smart person would realize that.

[Jim Jeffries]

Yet another racist.

Since you don't know how to read very well, I'll clear up some of your idiotic assumptions:

I consider Johnson's win over Jeffries on the same level as his win over these guys:

Frank Childs (x2), George Gardner, Denver Ed Martin (x2), Jack Munroe, Morris Harris, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tony Ross, Frank Moran, Tom Cowler, and Jack Thompson

As for Jeffries win over Jackson, I don't consider that noteworthy because Jackson was WAY WAY past it. He was past his prime before he retired, and came out of retirement. He was completely shot. Jeffries on the other hand retired in his prime. Jeffries was 35 when he met Johnson, with little wear and tear over his professional career. Jackson was a little older when he met Jeffries, with much more wear and tear over his career, and would be dead from tuberculosis within 3 years.

Bottom line, Johnson fought a B level fighter, Jeffries fought a C level fighter. And besides, I rate Jeffries over Jackson.

Well if Jeffries was still a B level fighter after SIX YEARS without a fight, no wonder people were still calling him the third greatest HW that ever lived back in the early 70's.

You are able to realize the difference between a 7 fight Jeffries and a prime Johnson and put their respective opposition in context, aren't you? And easy with the racist accusations there Flawless.

[Sugarj]

Hi Kinetic, Nice to find another boxing historian who likes the 20s. Rather than just being a 'stat guy' I have actually watched these films from the 20s and so on, as many Dempsey fights as I can get hold of, to be honest not all the film's quality were great and he only fought a handfull of times in the 20s.

Whilst the 20s was a boom time for heavyweight boxing, the public tended to love their champions based on their legend, not everyone got to see title defenses on cinema, let alone live. Thats why alot of old time champs like Corbett and Johnson did theatre to see the masses, whereas Dempsey spent nearly as much time in the 20s acting in silent movies, spending time with his sultry movie star wife Estelle Taylor and hob nobbing with Charlie Chaplin, much to the delight of the crowds, who came to see him as he travelled about doing exhibitions, not many fights.

As for the actual fights:

1919 Dempsey Destroys Willard: Its quite a laugh watching the hapless Willard get repeatedly knocked down, but is this fight any better to watch than Foreman vs Frazier in 1973?

1921 (I think) Dempsey vs Carpentier: Was this four round mauling of a light heavy by a heavy any more entertaining than Frazier's forth round destruction of Ellis? Or of his two round obliteration of Bob Foster?

1923 (I think) Dempsey vs Firpo: Great fight, see saw, cant knock it, but it is surely equalled by Lyle vs Foreman?

1926 Dempsey vs Tunney: One sided boxing display by Tunney over 10 rounds, probably bettered by Ali Frazier 2 for this type of performance plus some.

1926 ( I think ) Dempsey vs Sharkey: Interesting come from behind type of win for Dempsey, Surely Young vs Foreman is even more compelling? Or Ali vs Foreman?

1927 Dempsey vs Tunney 2: the best comparision is probably Tyson vs Douglas from the 80s but, the Thrilla in Manilla with Ali vs Frazier 3 eats this alive for viewing pleasure.

Dempsey had a couple of other fights this decade, Gibbons, Brennan etc but the films are a bit cack. Surely Norton vs Holmes or Shavers vs Ali were more crowd pleasing.

The 20s had some great moments but heavyweight boxing was not the spectacle it was in the 70s from a stat or video point of view.