Boxing myths

[BennyST]

As if 5lbs is the difference between life and death when you're talking about Elite fighters.

Although I completely agree with everything you've said and they were all excellent points, I don't know why anyone would ***** about Hopkins' career, among the truly elite five pounds can often be just the thing that can be the difference between winning or losing....or gaining just that little edge between such highly skilled athletes that are so close in skill and everything else.

It is such a seemingly small thing but it really can be the difference. I say this in no way though to down-play Hopkins wins at all though. The Trinidad win was genuinely great. The fact he knocked out both Oscar and Tito is even greater. Incredible as no one else could do it.

As with all great fighters though, there will always be fools that will pick on the smallest aspects of a fighters entire career and simply deny everything else and the whole body of work in favor of honing in on some tiny little insignificant thing to play up as much as they can something that they hope will make them appear to be .... not so great.

[ironalex]

Simple, Kostya. A great career is worth a lot, of if you're simply talking about peak ability it isn't the end all. Mike Tyson and Jack Dempsey had relatively crappy careers compared to some other greats, but at their best they were better than many fighters with superior overall careers.

i wouldn't call being the youngest ever heavyweight champ, then beating the best to be undisputed champ, fighting great fighters a bad career. it was a bad career when he was old and still fighting on, but there are so many liek that, if you count fighting when you are past it and loosing as a bad career, then durans is,de la hoyas, and so many more, idk how you come to the conclusion....

[ßringer]

Although I completely agree with everything you've said and they were all excellent points, I don't know why anyone would ***** about Hopkins' career, among the truly elite five pounds can often be just the thing that can be the difference between winning or losing....or gaining just that little edge between such highly skilled athletes that are so close in skill and everything else.

It is such a seemingly small thing but it really can be the difference. I say this in no way though to down-play Hopkins wins at all though. The Trinidad win was genuinely great. The fact he knocked out both Oscar and Tito is even greater. Incredible as no one else could do it.

As with all great fighters though, there will always be fools that will pick on the smallest aspects of a fighters entire career and simply deny everything else and the whole body of work in favor of honing in on some tiny little insignificant thing to play up as much as they can something that they hope will make them appear to be .... not so great.

I can see your point about the small difference in weight, but to me ; I just think that a truly elite fighter, can adapt and find victory no matter what the circumstances.

Overall, I agree. People tend to make too big a deal, especially with Hopkins. But I also see it pretty much anytime "fighter x" moves up to challenge "fighter x" in whatever weightclass or catchweight they agree upon.

[Thread Stealer]

• "Marvin Hagler was a brawler"- that myth is a pet peeve of mine. He was a boxer-puncher. He brawled when necessary, but spent more time as a boxer-puncher than in aggressive swarmer mode. Similar to this is when people talk about Ray Leonard and act like he was always a dancer, and that he switched his style when he brawled too much against Duran in the first fight. Leonard switched his style more in the rematch (and Hagler fight), when he danced on his toes. Leonard spent more time flat-footed than on his toes.
  
• "George Foreman was dominating Muhammad Ali before he got tired"- Ali was countering effectively THROUGHOUT the fight, not only after Foreman fatigued. Ali did most of the clean punching upstairs, Foreman did the better bodywork.
  
• "The term pound-for-pound was invented for Sugar Ray Robinson"- it was probably more popularized by Robinson. However, other fighters were described as being the best "pound for pound" before SRR. Guys like Tony Canzoneri and even Bob Fitzsimmons, who was fighting before Walker Smith was ever born.
  
• "Willie Pep won a round against Jackie Graves without throwing a punch". It appears from research done by someone on cyberboxingzone that it's just a myth. A newspaper account describes that round as being a good 2-way action round.

"The Legendary Nights Myths"

• Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor. You can argue that Leonard "low-balled" Pryor by offering Pryor $500,000. This myth is just another example of internet fans getting their ****s hard over the "calling out" process, when the real "calling out" is in negotiations (usually away from the public eye).
  
• Meldrick Taylor was never any good again after the first Julio Cesar Chavez fight. Actually the documentary never said that, it just said that after the fight, Taylor had diminished performances in the ring (true), health problems (true), and outside the ring problems (true). Taylor was still good enough to move up in weight a year later to win a world title at 147 lbs, against undefeated champ Aaron Davis. Never being the same after a fight but still being pretty good, isn't quite the same as being "completely ruined".

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+boxing&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+boxing&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+boxing&hl=en


Some others from other posters on another forum.

Philadelphia Inquirer, June 12, 1899

"If a great fistic luminary rose on Friday night, a great one set. Taking him pound for pound, Bob Fitzsimmons was the greatest fighter that ever stepped into a ring, Tom Sayers not forgotten."

"Tony Canzoneri is the greatest fighter, pound for pound, who ever stepped into ring shoes." - Mar 13th, 1933, Albert Kane of the Hartford Courant

"Even those of us who picked Ambers to win easily, and all of us did, were yelling for Canzoneri from the start. There's something about the little sawed-off fellow that gets you. maybe it's the fact that for 10 years he's been, pound for pound, the best fighter in the business." - May 11th, 1935, Urbana Daily Courier

"With a featherweight championship fight coming up, every follower of the fancy seems to be talking about Hurry-Up Henry Armstrong, the coffee-colored clouter from East St.Louis. They say that Hurry-Up Henry, pound for pound, is the best fighter in the world." - Oct 29th, 1937, John Kieran of the NY Times

[DR.ORGYY]

..............

[apokalips]

One that constantly gets on my nerves, is this one.



It's not just in Hopkins' case that this annoys me ; it's that any great fighter who happens to beat an equally great fighter from a lower division, the win is instantly **** because he was "smaller"?

Get the hell out of here with that ****.

Trinidad was a fit at Middleweight. He knocked out a damn good career Middleweight in William Joppy in what? 6 rounds? Joppy you may recall, lasted 12 with Bernard himself - despite Hopkins' best effort to end it early because he had a personal bet of $100,000 with Joppy that he wouldn't last 12 with him.

The Oscar fight was at 156, not 160. A lot of people fail to realize or understand that. It was at a catchweight only 2lbs north of Oscar's most comfortable weight post-147.

Winky Wright, I'll give you. He was blown up as hell, and nowhere near anywhere he was good at. And he still put forth a good effort.

Pavlik was at 170, 4lbs north of the 166 limit in which Kelly beat Jermain in the rematch. A weight Kelly himself said "felt good", and that he "feels stronger". Physically speaking, both Pavlik and Hopkins are equal in terms of reach, and Pavlik is actually taller than Hopkins, with slightly larger shoulders.

A lot of people talk down about fighters who fight a fighter from a lower weight coming up, or what have you.

But I've noticed it's mostly directed at Hopkins around here.

One guy even bashed the hell out of B-Hop for fighting Tito, yet had absolutely no problem with Hagler fighting Duran and Leonard.

I'm not saying those fights weren't legit, they clearly were.

But damn - if you're going to ***** about a particular incident ; ***** about it all across the board.

Don't belittle it when someone you dislike does it and then turn around and justify it when you're favorites have done it.

This one annoys me as well. It's worse when it comes to Mayweather Jr, because he is a small guy himself. People will say he's not that great, but believe it is more fair for him to fight Paul Williams at 154 than it is for him to fight JMM. He has also been outweighed hugely by opponents and nothing is made of that, but when he outweighs Marquez and "makes" Hatton come up to 147 (where ironically I think he outweighed Floyd on fight night) its some sort of cheat.

In boxing guys go up and down in weight all the time, its their choice...especially when it comes to the very top p4pers.

[Vadrigar.]

I have a similar thread in the nutrition/training section. This one I'd like to make about boxing history.

"Rocky Marciano couldn't fight, he fought bums" or "Rocky Marciano was the greatest champ who ever lived. Look at his record, he never lost." - I'd have to say both are far from the truth.

"Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson are overrated. They both had ****ty careers." - Their careers are ****ty. As fighters, they weren't.

"Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali are the greatest fighters of all time. Look at their careers." - Their careers are great. That doesn't make them the greatest fighters.

"Fighters from the distant past suck" or "Modern fighters are no good." - both wrong.

"All champions fight for money and money alone." - most do, unfortunately. But not all of them.

"No one will ever be better than so and so." - yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are you serious?
you've gone beyond all rational thought here.

Have you even looked at Ali's and Robinson's resume's?

What else does a boxer need to do, except have a great career?

[r.burgundy]

willie pep once won a round without throwing a punch

[King Zeezi]

willie pep once won a round without throwing a punch

i thought that was a myth

[Benny Leonard]

All you have to do is not Fear the Bully and Stand up to him and you will win.


Funny thing, Foreman was scared of Frazier and Frazier wasn't scared of George.

Fear can be a great tool to win...



Note: if you are going to stand up to a bully, you better have a gun like Teddy Atlas.