why isnt MONZON that leagiondary?

[Kid McCoy]

The end of career resume is excellent, but that's what it is, and END of career resume. He fought 100 fights, but didn't start fighting anyone worth a damn until his last 16. His first 84 fights are protection. What other ATGs can you name who did something that absurd? If any, certainly not many.

Yes I know he avenged all his losses. And the only thing common about having a lot of draws against low level opposition is this:

1) The fighter wasn't as great as you want to believe he is

or

2) He didn't show up to fight for those draws, took them on short notice, didn't train, some valid reason to suggest he was only 50% at best. But for the real deal guy to show up and draw, inexcusable. I don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances, but the great fighters I rate at the very top of the p4p list don't have this many draws against weak opposition when they faced nothing but weak opposition for that entire portion of their career.

If you don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances why trash him?

Monzon was not "protected". Protected is a Hopkins or a Calzaghe sitting on an alphabet title and defending it against nobodies for years or a Mayweather cherry-picking weak titlists.

Monzon, like his Latin American compatriots Duran, Jofre, Chavez etc, grew up in conditions unimaginable in the West, had little amateur experience and was taking on tough pros from the outset in phonebooth sized rings. There's no such thing as protection in such boxing hotbeds, they're thrown to the wolves early and either sink or swim. His early blemishes should be seen in that context.

How do you know his pre-title opposition was no good? Because Boxrec lists them all as having 2 or 3 pro fights?

As for draws, in Brazil there is a rule (or at least there was), whereby if a fighter doesn't win a decision by at least 4 points then it is declared a draw, which is why Eder Jofre has several draws on his record. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar rule in Argentina.

[Southpaw16BF]

If you don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances why trash him?

Monzon was not "protected". Protected is a Hopkins or a Calzaghe sitting on an alphabet title and defending it against nobodies for years or a Mayweather cherry-picking weak titlists.

Monzon, like his Latin American compatriots Duran, Jofre, Chavez etc, grew up in conditions unimaginable in the West, had little amateur experience and was taking on tough pros from the outset in phonebooth sized rings. There's no such thing as protection in such boxing hotbeds, they're thrown to the wolves early and either sink or swim. His early blemishes should be seen in that context.

How do you know his pre-title opposition was no good? Because Boxrec lists them all as having 2 or 3 pro fights?

As for draws, in Brazil there is a rule (or at least there was), whereby if a fighter doesn't win a decision by at least 4 points then it is declared a draw, which is why Eder Jofre has several draws on his record. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar rule in Argentina.

Gotta agree with mostly everything written there, but Monzon didn't have little amature background, he had pretty extensive one, he around the 80+ fight range of amature bouts it is belived.

And the same goes for Eder Jofre who had alot of amature expreince as he went the 1956 Melbourne Olympic Games losing in the second round against Claudio Barrientos. Jofre was in the gym from a young age also.

[Obama]

I feel you don't understand boxing, yes I have noticed mistakes from Monzon, but every fighter has made mistakes in his career.




Actually if you would read my post, who would of seen that I said Monzon had size and strength on Napoles, but to say Napoles was a shot fighter is a bogus comment. Like I stated previously to you, Napoles hadn't been beat in 4 years from 70 to 74, and had made 6 defences of his Title.

Well actually your wrong about Trinidad Hopkins, as funny enough I was just reading about this fight and some predictions before hand, and virtually everyyone was picking Trinidad. And you do realize Trinidad was coming off a win over William Joppy, and most were saying it was the best he has ever looked. Hopkins beat Trinidad due to him just being the overall better fighter.

You can't just put Hopkins beating Trinidad was all down to size. And at times Smaller men coming up from weight have caused champions alot of trouble and beat them. Hell Orginal Joe Walcott beat a good few big men and was avoided by most of the best one's, same goes for Sam Langford.

Micky Walker drew with future Heavyweight Champion Jack Sharkley and I could go on, I feel Monzon may need a little bit more credit for this win, fighters coming up in weight can be very dangerous.



Ever heard of learning your trade? Whats the big rush, to get to world titles? Your judging to much on todays fighters record at getting World Title shots which is usualy under 30. Back in Monzon's era and era's before, learning your trade and fighting often was common. And thats why Monzon probaly kept his Title and never lost it as he had exprience and had learnt his trade the proper way.

He also had some wins in Argentina, against fighters like Jorge Jose Fernandez (109-6-1) and Emilio Ale Ali good exprienced fighters who you will learn alot from.

And this all helped Monzon learn his craft and it helped him as a fighter in the future, as it proved with a 7 year Title reign and 14 defences of his crown.

And Monzon isn't on his own here, Marcel Cerdan had had 107 fights before coming to the USA to defeat Laverne Roach, and he defeated Tony Zale on his 111th bout. So like I said back down the era line, most champions had had alot more fights than todays current crop.

But you making out like its a bad thing, it's not in truth.



Well Henry Armstrong musten be as great as I thought he was with 10 draws, same goes for Tony Canzoneri 10 draws, Nicolino Locche 14 draws, Jack Demspey 11 draws and many more. As you can see Monzon is not on his own in the draws deparment. But do you discredit these great fighters for draws? Draws can be down to a number of things, learning your craft, bad decisions, etc you get my drift.

You motto on things is a really pour mindset to have.




I'am am not biased to towards fighters, and I still feel Monzon is to low. And I disagree with most things you say, as none make sense or none are justified.

Sigh, arguing with you is impossible. You didn't understand anything I said. I mean, I'd make a 2 part statement, and you only address part 1. The statement doesn't hold without part 2, yet you always choose to ignore it.

[Obama]

If you don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances why trash him?

Monzon was not "protected". Protected is a Hopkins or a Calzaghe sitting on an alphabet title and defending it against nobodies for years or a Mayweather cherry-picking weak titlists.

Monzon, like his Latin American compatriots Duran, Jofre, Chavez etc, grew up in conditions unimaginable in the West, had little amateur experience and was taking on tough pros from the outset in phonebooth sized rings. There's no such thing as protection in such boxing hotbeds, they're thrown to the wolves early and either sink or swim. His early blemishes should be seen in that context.

How do you know his pre-title opposition was no good? Because Boxrec lists them all as having 2 or 3 pro fights?

As for draws, in Brazil there is a rule (or at least there was), whereby if a fighter doesn't win a decision by at least 4 points then it is declared a draw, which is why Eder Jofre has several draws on his record. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar rule in Argentina.

I'm not trashing him. I just feel he was protected. And I feel the VERY greatest aren't protected. If I don't know anything about the guys he beat and can't FIND anything significant about them / notice any meaningful wins in their resume, then yes, I'm going to assume they aren't notable wins.

Why are people getting upset for why I don't think he deserves to be a top 3 Middleweight?

[Southpaw16BF]

I'm not trashing him. I just feel he was protected. And I feel the VERY greatest aren't protected. If I don't know anything about the guys he beat and can't FIND anything significant about them / notice any meaningful wins in their resume, then yes, I'm going to assume they aren't notable wins.

Why are people getting upset for why I don't think he deserves to be a top 3 Middleweight?

As most people can see you are talking bogus. But yet you can't realize it, not just over Monzon but most things. Basically.........

No offence....

[portuge puncher]

my personal stand, is that monzon could have beaten anyone of the greats, the guy always new how to win.

i rate him number 1

[Obama]

As most people can see you are talking bogus. But yet you can't realize it, not just over Monzon but most things. Basically.........

No offence....

You are quite petty. You know nothing about me at all. I've made under 100 posts and you pretend to know what I'm all about.

[Southpaw16BF]

You are quite petty. You know nothing about me at all. I've made under 100 posts and you pretend to know what I'm all about.

Well up to now the posts I have seen from you, some have been bogus.....And I don't know what your all about, nor do I claim to know.

[Obama]

I've yet to see you comprehend a single one of my posts, so if I was looking at my posts through your eyes, I would consider them bogus as well.

[glidesmack]

He was boring as all hell that's why.