why isnt MONZON that leagiondary?

[Southpaw16BF]

Never heard of him. I'm either showing my young age, or he really is a fighter few have heard of.

Got any links to stuff I could read about him?

Here is a few things about the great Tommy Ryan
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/L...TommyRyan2.htm
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/ryan-t.htm

Nice piece on Carlos you posted there.

Thanks Bringer.....

[Southpaw16BF]

Being a complete physical freak certainly helped. Everyone jokes about Mayorga, but a man who was one of the top 2 middleweights of all time was living the same lifestyle.

I think he became an even more violent individual once he was out of boxing though. Boxing was probably the only discipline in his life, and once that got taken away it was anything goes.

Mayorga is reading the book Monzon wrote, and he isn't half as bad as Monzon. Mayorga does alot of his bad habbits to gain attention, Monzon wound't even mention it. One time while getting his hands wrapped Monzon was smoking in the locker room, Monzon would even stop while doing his roadwork just to light up, and then would resume.

He was 100 day smoker, and would cut back to 50 in camp. He was also belived to be out on the town the night before the Nino Benvanuti 2 fight. But yet his stamina was one of his very best points.

Monzon was a freak of nature..........

[Eric Holder]

Monzon is one of the strangest and most difficult to qualify fighters in the history boxing. He's like the anti-Tyson, a man who never let any of his character or habits outside of the ring influence his cold, surgical performance.

that's what I find most amazing about Monzon, anyone familiar with his life story would think he'd be an absolute lunatic in the ring but he was the exact opposite he was calm and percise

[GJC]

I do feel one fighter that gets overlooked is Tommy Ryan. He fought from 1887 to 1907. He was Welterweight Wolrd Champion for 4 years, and then would hold the Wolrd Middlweight Crown for 9 years.

The fight intelligentsia prasied him as one of the cleverest and most intelligent fighters of his era and as a all time great. He was very quick footed, fundamentally sound for the day, and a huge puncher. By all accounts he was for the period ''Flawless''

He held wins over such fighters like Nanpareil Jack Dempsey, Tommy West, Charley Johnson, Jack Bonner, and would draw with Charles Kid McCoy.

Brillant fighter, but no many know him around here, as I remember Poet682006not knowing much about him and I can imagine many other will not either.

Picture of Ryan..........

Good call on Ryan, not sure why he gets overlooked maybe because of Fitzsimmons?

[GJC]

why? i know many boxing fans have a ton to say about hagler, greb, SRR, and hopkins when it comes to great MW's. but why is carlos monzon almost always looked over? i think he did more then all of them.

is it because of compitition?
because he had very good compitition: emile griffith, nino beuventi, rodrigo valdez, bennie briscoe.

is it because he didnt accomplish enough?
MW champ for 7 years with 14 defenses. a record of 89-3-8 59 ko's.

he always seemed overshadowed by other greats, especially by hagler, but i dont understand why.

I think personally he is in that bracket with the Grebs, Ketchel, SRR, Hagler so pretty exaulted company. Maybe not top in a lot of peoples minds but top 6 is not too shabby considering.

[black.ink]

Yeah, a truly unique style in that he was so dominant despite being completely flat-footed and having mediocre power. The guy would often be in complete chaos up until the weigh-in, having to go on brutal runs right before the fight just to cut weight, drinking, smoking, having sex all night, etc. Pure violence outside the ring, but oddly detached inside.

I have to disagree. He had a lot of snap in his punches. Monzon's effectiveness came from his jab, which he utilised most. He used to break down fighters in the ring, often leaving them in heaps.

He didn't have a one-punch KO power, but because he had tremendous stamina, he was able to use his natural power accumatively. He was such a smart fighter in the way he broke his oppenent down which looked like little effort on his behalf, but to pure amazement on ours.

I think it's no coincedence that the Ring listed him as the 40th greatest puncher of all-time, which in regard is a matter of opinion, but an opinion of many respected historians and writers.


To the original thread-starter, i have to say that Monzon isn't neccesarily 'over-looked' when compared to other Middleweights. In fact, any respected persons list of the greatest MW's of all-time tends to list Monzon in the top 5, and always guaranteed in the top 10. I think he is an understated Middleweight because of his fighting style, which doesn't warm to 'boxing' fans. I suppose you have to have an appreciation of how Monzon fought, and although unspectacular on the eye, he left an everlasting impression on many.

If you pitted him in the ring with any great MW, i think Monzon would come top overall. Greb, Ketchel, Hagler, Hopkins and of course Robinson as well as fans of many others may disagree, but Monzon was something special.

[them_apples]

I do feel one fighter that gets overlooked is Tommy Ryan. He fought from 1887 to 1907. He was Welterweight Wolrd Champion for 4 years, and then would hold the Wolrd Middlweight Crown for 9 years.

The fight intelligentsia prasied him as one of the cleverest and most intelligent fighters of his era and as a all time great. He was very quick footed, fundamentally sound for the day, and a huge puncher. By all accounts he was for the period ''Flawless''

He held wins over such fighters like Nanpareil Jack Dempsey, Tommy West, Charley Johnson, Jack Bonner, and would draw with Charles Kid McCoy.

Brillant fighter, but no many know him around here, as I remember Poet682006not knowing much about him and I can imagine many other will not either.

Picture of Ryan..........

the manchine might know something

[hookoutofhell]

i dont know too much about monzon but to me he seems like a margarito type fighter - would that be a fair comparison to make.

great chin and great stamina, solid punching power, huge for the weight, flat footed, the sort of guy who will wear you down and won't stop over the 12 rounds. both fighters despite their size were very good at fighting on the inside. defensively monzon seems smarter and capable of adjusting his tactics and defense.

looking at the clips id say that monzon is more measured in his offense as well, margarito often looks to batter his opponents into submission with a huge volume of punches but monzon looks more calculating, as though he is thinking more about his punches and how to break down his opponent.

[Miburo]

I have to disagree. He had a lot of snap in his punches. Monzon's effectiveness came from his jab, which he utilised most. He used to break down fighters in the ring, often leaving them in heaps.

He didn't have a one-punch KO power, but because he had tremendous stamina, he was able to use his natural power accumatively. He was such a smart fighter in the way he broke his oppenent down which looked like little effort on his behalf, but to pure amazement on ours.

I think it's no coincedence that the Ring listed him as the 40th greatest puncher of all-time, which in regard is a matter of opinion, but an opinion of many respected historians and writers.


To the original thread-starter, i have to say that Monzon isn't neccesarily 'over-looked' when compared to other Middleweights. In fact, any respected persons list of the greatest MW's of all-time tends to list Monzon in the top 5, and always guaranteed in the top 10. I think he is an understated Middleweight because of his fighting style, which doesn't warm to 'boxing' fans. I suppose you have to have an appreciation of how Monzon fought, and although unspectacular on the eye, he left an everlasting impression on many.

If you pitted him in the ring with any great MW, i think Monzon would come top overall. Greb, Ketchel, Hagler, Hopkins and of course Robinson as well as fans of many others may disagree, but Monzon was something special.

By mediocre I simply meant unexceptional. He could wear people down and get them out of there (he actually had a half-decent KO ratio) but he was not a puncher by any means. He had enough power to command respect, but was still more or less a decision fighter against worthy opponents.

[nachorjj]

monzon in 1 of 2 top MW fighters of all time. if he fight whith hagler or rovinson he destroy but i think hopkins can win carlos