Who Can Handle Vitali in the Historical Pantheon?

[1SILVA]

Head to head Vitaly is an imposing figure for any fighter in history. I think Lennox beats him. Ali. Maybe Holmes. Maybe Louis. I think Tunney could give him fits, and I would favor Holyfield and Foreman. Tyson might be able to pull the trick but I wouldn't be willing to bet on it. Everybody else I think he beats clearly.

Rid**** Bowe of 92-95 beats him. Bowe was a great inside fighter for a big man and had tons more heart than the Klitshco brothers combined. The Bowe that fought Golota was shot. The Bowe that beat Holyfield twice I believe would kayo both brothers

[Davros?]

I don't have time to go into an in depth analysis but if i was betting i would favor.

Muhammad Ali (speed and movement would cause vitali to much trouble imo)
Jack Dempsey (was very good against Willard who had a style like Vitali's)
Larry Holmes (great jab and movement in his prime plus amazing recovery ability and good combo puncher)
George Foreman ( great power and immense presence Vitali was never very good fighting when being backed up)
Sonny Liston (amazing reach and power jab would cause Vitali trouble plus Liston was a great boxer very underrated by many)
Joe Frazier ( great upper body movement and put opponents under incredible pressure if he backs Vitali up i would pick him)
Lennox Lewis (already beat him)
Mike Tyson ( great upper body movement and power with good hand speed)
Evander Holyfield (great jab combos and body movement if he uses the tactics he did in the 2nd Bowe fight)

[JAB5239]

Rid**** Bowe of 92-95 beats him. Bowe was a great inside fighter for a big man and had tons more heart than the Klitshco brothers combined. The Bowe that fought Golota was shot. The Bowe that beat Holyfield twice I believe would kayo both brothers

Yeah, I would give Bowe a very good shot at beating him with both at their best. Don't know why I forgot him or left him out.

[Clegg]

** OK, you made some good valid points about Vitali's style that few pick up on, yet fall short with the above.

Keep in mind that both the brothers were having as much trouble as Chris Byrd in making fights. Lewis wouldn't even mention them. They were the top 3challengers to Lewis at the close of the 90s opening up the new millennium. Maybe Wlad and Byrd not the top WBC rated challengers, but that's a different kettle of fish. I'm talking consensus boxrec/ring/and ********* type ratings.

When considering Vitali's desire to prove himself/fight the best, this is valid, but it doesn't mean anything when considering how good he was really was(/is). Whether he did all he could to fight the best or not, his proven track record is pretty underwhelming.

Obviously all fantasy fights are just opinion, but with Vitali there is a lot less to base those opinions on than with the boxers who are usually rated in the top 10 of all time.

[BattlingNelson]

Head to head Vitaly is an imposing figure for any fighter in history. I think Lennox beats him. Ali. Maybe Holmes. Maybe Louis. I think Tunney could give him fits, and I would favor Holyfield and Foreman. Tyson might be able to pull the trick but I wouldn't be willing to bet on it. Everybody else I think he beats clearly.

I agree. Vitali would have a good versus any opponent.

Wins: I think Ali, Louis and Holmes beats him. Louis may even kayo him.

Good shots: Dempsey, who brutalized Willard has a good shot. As would Tyson as he often had reasonable succes against big guys and often he didn't . Tunney was a smart fighter so I wouldn't count him out either. Marciano would give Vitali a brutal slugfest which could go either way I think. The Frazier that fought Ali in the garden might be able to land that perfect hook on Vitali.

Likely losers: The slow Foreman will be brutalized in a slugfest although he could get lucky. Lewis will lose if he doesn't cut Vitali up. People forget that Vitali took the fight on 2 weeks notice instead focusing on Lewis being heavy despite having a long hard camp. Jack Johnson was a smart fighter with nifty moves, combos and arrogance, but I cant see him winning. Perhaps if the fight is a 20 rounder Vitali might gas if Johnson stays upright that long.

No chance: James J. Jeffries will land nothing I think. Sonny Liston might have succes with his brilliant jab but I think Vitali discourage him and stop him. Evander Holyfield will hang in there but will receive a merciless beating. Ezzard Charles had good skills but would probably have a very hard time with the giant. Jersey Joe will win some rounds but not the fight.
James J. Corbett and Bob Fitzsimmons well I cannot see them have a chance at all.


No opinions: Sam Langford is praised a lot as an ATG p4p fighter. I havent read enough about him to give an educated guess. I know next to nothing about Harry Wills.

[KostyaTszyu44]

I agree. Vitali would have a good versus any opponent.

Wins: I think Ali, Louis and Holmes beats him. Louis may even kayo him.

Good shots: Dempsey, who brutalized Willard has a good shot. As would Tyson as he often had reasonable succes against big guys and often he didn't . Tunney was a smart fighter so I wouldn't count him out either. Marciano would give Vitali a brutal slugfest which could go either way I think. The Frazier that fought Ali in the garden might be able to land that perfect hook on Vitali.

Likely losers: The slow Foreman will be brutalized in a slugfest although he could get lucky. Lewis will lose if he doesn't cut Vitali up. People forget that Vitali took the fight on 2 weeks notice instead focusing on Lewis being heavy despite having a long hard camp. Jack Johnson was a smart fighter with nifty moves, combos and arrogance, but I cant see him winning. Perhaps if the fight is a 20 rounder Vitali might gas if Johnson stays upright that long.

No chance: James J. Jeffries will land nothing I think. Sonny Liston might have succes with his brilliant jab but I think Vitali discourage him and stop him. Evander Holyfield will hang in there but will receive a merciless beating. Ezzard Charles had good skills but would probably have a very hard time with the giant. Jersey Joe will win some rounds but not the fight.
James J. Corbett and Bob Fitzsimmons well I cannot see them have a chance at all.


No opinions: Sam Langford is praised a lot as an ATG p4p fighter. I havent read enough about him to give an educated guess. I know next to nothing about Harry Wills.

you're a biased idiot...marciao, dempsey and tunney beat vitali, but evander doesnt? wtf is your problem with evander? you're a ****ing ******

[res]

you're a biased idiot...marciao, dempsey and tunney beat vitali, but evander doesnt? wtf is your problem with evander? you're a ****ing ******

He is not being biased, you just disagree with him.

He gave Tyson, a modern fighter a good chance, so he is not excluding the modern fighters, and Vitali himself is a modern fighter..

[phallus]

for sure,

i'd say ali, holmes, frazier, louis, probably dempsey and tunney

possibly,
liston would have a good chance, as would big george foreman. if marciano stays on the inside and attacks that long body i'd give him a chance

[ßringer]

Off that list, I would give Ali, Louis, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, and Lewis all solid chances at beating Vitali.

Prime Rid**** Bowe was mentioned, and is another one whom I'd lay money on to beat Vitali.

[LondonRingRules]

Off that list, I would give Ali, Louis, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, and Lewis all solid chances at beating Vitali.

Prime Rid**** Bowe was mentioned, and is another one whom I'd lay money on to beat Vitali.

** Opinions, opinions gentlemen, my kingdom for another opinion to tithe my royal lineage.

I would point out that the historical record supports very few of your choices. The Bringer, whether by happy accident or well considered choice
has made the most credible grouping of the responses thus far.

Notice how he couches his language such that his picks are given solid chances of victory, acknowledgement of the significant talents and considerable natural attributes of the Kbros.

Louis more particularly has an excellent track record against prime or near prime giants, Lewis next, then Dempsey. Ali and Frazier lag a bit behind these two, their eras with fewer giant type contenders of the past. Ali did beat a smallish giant in Foreman and Wepner, and I guess Bugner, and Frazier has prime undefeated Mathis and also Bugner.

Unfortunately, young Bowe's management feared him being exposed against big sluggers, so I wouldn't qualify him as having any history of superiority over big men seeing how the only prime big man he met not only outboxed him easily, but beat the bejibberjabbers out of him and into retirement in what should have been his physical prime. Many close to him claimed he began showing signs of dementia around this time. Given the lack of significant comp prior to Golota save for the smallish Holy, I cannot support that this guy was in the class of the great champions who stalked and terrorized the division in the past.

I would also point out that era giants Willard and Primo would also have a decent chance at the Kbros. Both very underrated for boxing skills and using their size, and both clearly as big, or even stronger as in Primo's case. I put Big George in this grouping, the baby of a big bunch. He did beat Wepner early in his career, and though he lost a travesty against Briggs, George blasted him around the ring and had him running for dear life.

There are those upset if Holy is not picked, but only Vitali has any history of losing to a guy his size, and that on injury in a fight Vitali was pitching near a shut out in late and easily could have coasted in for a win. He understands now he made a mistake in retiring. It can be argued that Holy beat Douglas, Bowe, and Big George, true enough, so I won't argue with anyone wanting to include him, but Douglas was never in training much less ever in the fight and Holy was shipped major damage by Bowe and George, not the blueprint on how to beat vastly bigger, stronger fighters.

I'd could include Tunney for his boxing and Holy for his toughness in as darkhorse selections, but wouldn't wager a wooden nickel on the result.