best defensive boxer of all time

[Tuggers1986]

Read this:

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0403-jw.html

Bull****.

I wanna see it.

[Hawkins]

Bull****.

I wanna see it.

It's been 'debunked' according to newspaper accounts of the fight. Plus, there is no known footage of the bout.

[Hawkins]

Genius sometimes makes a person lazy. Even geniuses are known to have bloated confidence in their already great capabilities.

Some have claimed that his weight issues were caused by his drug habit, although, I don't know that to be true.

Among the mental pictures I quickly have of Benitez each time he's mentioned is the way he stalked Maurice Hope around the ring in the final round, unleashed an overhand right, then smiled at the spectators as he dropped his hands to his sides while Hope crumbled to the canvass. He didn't even bother to look at Hope!

Yeah man, and one can't help but picture those onesided losses to Moore and Hilton either. Both fighters he would beaten had he not let himself so totally go.

[hemichromis]

Yeah man, and one can't help but picture those onesided losses to Moore and Hilton either. Both fighters he would beaten had he not let himself so totally go.

Hawkins, are you quite new hear?

[Hawkins]

Hawkins, are you quite new hear?

Am I new here? I joined in October of this year. Why do you ask?

[grayfist]

Yeah man, and one can't help but picture those onesided losses to Moore and Hilton either. Both fighters he would beaten had he not let himself so totally go.

I'd much prefer the mental pictures of the great ones at their respective prime.

More than most human activities, sports demand payment in the arena for what sportsmen do outside of it. And, the toll sports collect is high-- even higher for those who are gifted.

You know what the Good Book says... something like, "...to whom much is given, much is expected." True in all facets of life, but truer still in sports, where one can be beaten not only by the foe but, sometimes, by one's self.

In addition there are circumstances outside of the sport that are beyond one's own control that also beat the sportsman.

That's why to me, the great ones are truly great. They did not only have to excel within the ambit of their sport, they have to deal with their own demons and then have to surmount obstacles placed before them by people, places and events inside and outside their sports.

Basically, I look at the International Boxing Hall of Fame in this light: it is as much a collection of stories of triumphs of the human spirit as it is a tribute to genius. But, with that said, I hastily add that it is also a showcase of how genius can achieve much even if a fighter has been unfair to his gifts-- as in the case of Benitez and some others.

Sports heroes are demi-gods. The "demi-" is there to distinguish them ffrom "God" or "gods". They, expectedly, are flawed. But they are in the pantheon because they achieved things that people like me can only marvel at.

[Hawkins]

I'd much prefer the mental pictures of the great ones at their respective prime.

More than most human activities, sports demand payment in the arena for what sportsmen do outside of it. And, the toll sports collect is high-- even higher for those who are gifted.

You know what the Good Book says... something like, "...to whom much is given, much is expected." True in all facets of life, but truer still in sports, where one can be beaten not only by the foe but, sometimes, by one's self.

In addition there are circumstances outside of the sport that are beyond one's own control that also beat the sportsman.

Well in that aspect when something comes so naturally to someone to that point that its almost effortless I'm sure it would be all to easy to take it for granted.

I think this is the case of Benitez. He was so good for the short time he was at his best he took it all for granted and let it all go to waste by his actions that didn't pertain to boxing.

That's why to me, the great ones are truly great. They did not only have to excel within the ambit of their sport, they have to deal with their own demons and then have to surmount obstacles placed before them by people, places and events inside and outside their sports.

Basically, I look at the International Boxing Hall of Fame in this light: it is as much a collection of stories of triumphs of the human spirit as it is a tribute to genius. But, with that said, I hastily add that it is also a showcase of how genius can achieve much even if a fighter has been unfair to his gifts-- as in the case of Benitez and some others.

Sports heroes are demi-gods. The "demi-" is there to distinguish them ffrom "God" or "gods". They, expectedly, are flawed. But they are in the pantheon because they achieved things that people like me can only marvel at.

Make no mistake, I wasn't knocking Benitez. But when you picture his greatest triumphs some of those horrific defeats follow. As thrilling as the victories were the crushing defeats were just as much, but on the other side of the spectrum.

I try not to judge fighters on what they do outside of boxing, but when it effects them within the constrains of the sport then you have no choice. The great ones are great because of their victories and defeats, moreso the reaction to defeat. Some use it as a supreme motivator others as an excuse.

I think thats where true greatness is reflected.

[hhascup]

Bull****.

I wanna see it.

There is no known tape of that bout, all I am showing you is the newspaper article that shows it never happened.

This was suppose to take place in the 3rd round, BUT here's what the newspapers stated:

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/images/w0303article1.jpg

[robjr]

sweet pea, pep.

[grayfist]

Well in that aspect when something comes so naturally to someone to that point that its almost effortless I'm sure it would be all to easy to take it for granted.

I think this is the case of Benitez. He was so good for the short time he was at his best he took it all for granted and let it all go to waste by his actions that didn't pertain to boxing.





Make no mistake, I wasn't knocking Benitez. But when you picture his greatest triumphs some of those horrific defeats follow. As thrilling as the victories were the crushing defeats were just as much, but on the other side of the spectrum.

I try not to judge fighters on what they do outside of boxing, but when it effects them within the constrains of the sport then you have no choice. The great ones are great because of their victories and defeats, moreso the reaction to defeat. Some use it as a supreme motivator others as an excuse.

I think thats where true greatness is reflected.

I didn't think you were knocking Benitez. I just thought we have different preferences on mental pictures of him. You'd rather think first of his losses, I'd rather think first of who he was at his best.

I do the same for Ali and other greats. I acknowledge Ali's last fights but they are not going to be my first mental pictures if Ali's name is mentioned.

So, you'd rather recall the Moore fight alongside what I mentioned as my first mental picture (the Hope KO). That's your choice.

You speak of reactions to defeat as motivation for some and an excuse for others. A quick look at Benitez's record will show us that following his first loss (to no less than Leonard by 15th round TKO), he raced through three fighters with a cumulative record of 121-11. Then, he took a shot at his third world title in three weight classes and faced Hope. That's not exactly a fighter looking for an excuse.

He successfully defended the title he won from Hope twice and beat a Roberto Duran in the process. That was the Duran who beat Davey Moore and Pipino Cuevas a year later, and went the distance before losing to Hagler four years later. I can't see that such a series of events warrants a negative take on how badly Benitez took the loss to Leonard.

Benitez lost his title to Hearns. It was by MD-- it cannot by any stretch be referred to as a "crushing defeat". And it was the Hearns who less than two years later KO'd Duran and then 7 years later held Leonard to a draw in Vegas.

By the late 80's Benitez may have been young by ordinary standards, but one must remember that he is the youngest man to win a world crown at the age of 17. And, on top of his having fought the best, he had to deal with his demons.

His personal demons may have gotten in the way of his accomplishing more than he did. But what he actually accomplished-- both in losing and winning against the great ones--makes him deserve a better mental picture in my mind than his defeat to Davey Moore and others whom he faced at close to the end of his career.