BEST POUND 4 POUND CHAMP EVER? and top 10

[hhascup]

** Not exactly.

1st you change the topic. You claimed Louis laid down against Schmeling, completely ignoring he went down and got up frequently all through the bout and took a terrible pounding in between. Louis didn't know where he was by the time of the last KD.

2nd, you select the facts that suit you. The fact is Ali was a magnet for controversial fights.

You claim he won 2 of 3 against Norton, but many, probably most think Norton handily won the 2nd fight as well which would have knocked Ali further away from the title. The 3rd was the most competitive, but Ali never showed he could win barely more than a handful of rounds against Norton and chose Leon instead of his mandatory Norton in a 4th match.

Then the Young fight, complete and utter disgrace, even worse than Leon which was just over the horizon, waiting patiently like a buzzard. Foreman at least made a great attempt to fight Young.

Throw out the Liston fights, the most nonsensical set of fights in history. Was he was or was he ain't? Regardless, Liston was the most heavily mobbed fighter in history, and someone made sure he can no longer testify. Then you have the half dozen or so lesser fights the people in the day complained about.

Joe had two controversial fights in his life, gave quick rematches, then quickly dispatched the controversy. No embarrassing little Leons in Joe's record. I'll grant that Frazier and Foreman are a notch above Joe's best comp, but Joe's comp was otherwise more credible and stronger and Joe finished with stronger results with fewer bumps. End of story.

I never said Louis laid down, what I am saying is that he didn't make too much of an effort to get up. He just rolled over. That is because of the beating he took like you said.

In the Young bout Young put his head out of the ring several times. The rules state that if you do so you loss a point. Maybe that is what the judges looked at.

In the 2nd Norton bout I honestly thought Ali won, BUT when I saw the 3rd Norton bout, I honestly thought Ali lost, BUT my good friend Harold Lederman had Ali winning so I watched the bout again and saw what he meant.

As far as Liston goes, boxing experts were comparing him with Louis, Dempsey and the other Greats, so I don't know how you can rule that bout out.

Again, just look at the boxers that each of them fought, just about every boxing person I know, will say that Ali fought in the best era.

[hhascup]

We all have our own opinions on this and that is what makes this sport so GREAT. I have no idea what anyone on this sites background is on boxing, BUT I always listen to everyone. That is the only way you learn.

When I asked Bert Sugar how come he changed his all-time ratings, he stated because he listens to what others have to say.

Over the years, I have received countless amount of calls, letters, E-Mails from Sports Writers all over the country for information. I not only give them the information on boxing but on all sports as well. You can just "Google" my name (Henry Hascup) if you wish.

I am not saying that I know more then anyone on this site, BUT I do have a background. I am a charter member of IBRO, which started back in 1983. I am one of the editors on BoxRec. I have researched or worked with Herb Goldman, Bert Sugar as well as many other boxing experts and historians.

My point is that no one knows for sure how one boxer would do against another, especially from different era's. It's all up for debate and I really enjoy debating this with all of you.

[SABBATH]

Henry,

I posted a long response last night to you then deleted it but I'll post it again. I for one respect your opinions and your background as a historian. I have no idea why you post over here and not CBZ which clearly has more infinitely knowledgeable and mature posters.

This clown LondonRingRules is 57 year old internet troll by the name of Roberto Aqui who gets off on waxing poetic on his favourite fighters while going through hoops to diminish others. He admittedly takes great delight in trying to piss serious posters off which makes him a useless waste of bandwith on any boxing site aimed at mature discussion. He was recently banned over at CBZ (who thankfully screen the quality of postings) for his ridiculous and ignorant opinions.

Henry feel free to drop me a PM and I'll direct you to where you should be posting.

[Lubutheimmortal]

Actually Walcott was a little older then Louis and he went through a lot of tough fights before ever getting a shot at the title.

You say that Ali never fought anyone like Louis, well it goes both ways, Louis ever fought anyone like Ali either.

Like you said, it's only someones opinion and I just think that if Conn could out box Louis for 12 rounds, Ali would have done the same, but even better. Conn weighed in the 170's when he fought Louis the 1st time and Ali would come in at 210, that's 40 pounds more.

In the 2nd bout with Walcott, he was again losing and even hit the canvas, BUT Jersey Joe got cute and got tagged. Remember Walcott didn't have the Greatest chin either, as he was stopped 6 times during his career.

Well if Louis never fought anyone like Ali then why use Conn as a example? If they bothed danced and boxed circles wouldnt that be a close enough comparision to say Louis did infact fight someone like and I stress LIKE Ali? Age can not have a affect on a fighters prime example Hopkins seemed to of got better and better but finally around 40's he seems to show the signs. Weight IMO wouldnt be that much of a factor due to each fighters styles. Simply put it all comes down t if you think Louis can catch Ali enough , or if Ali could dance away for 15. Thats why I belive Louis would figure Ali out and return with several tactics to get the Win. Ali can knock Louis down and Louis can knock Ali down.

[Lubutheimmortal]

Henry,

I posted a long response last night to you then deleted it but I'll post it again. I for one respect your opinions and your background as a historian. I have no idea why you post over here and not CBZ which clearly has more infinitely knowledgeable and mature posters.

This clown LondonRingRules is 57 year old internet troll by the name of Roberto Aqui who gets off on waxing poetic on his favourite fighters while going through hoops to diminish others. He admittedly takes great delight in trying to piss serious posters off which makes him a useless waste of bandwith on any boxing site aimed at mature discussion. He was recently banned over at CBZ (who thankfully screen the quality of postings) for his ridiculous and ignorant opinions.

Henry feel free to drop me a PM and I'll direct you to where you should be posting.

I dont have a problem with London nor anyone else on this forum, I do see hmi taunting Poet alot , and Poet finally just put him on ignore. Idk what that is about and it is none of my business.

[hhascup]

Henry,

I posted a long response last night to you then deleted it but I'll post it again. I for one respect your opinions and your background as a historian. I have no idea why you post over here and not CBZ which clearly has more infinitely knowledgeable and mature posters.

This clown LondonRingRules is 57 year old internet troll by the name of Roberto Aqui who gets off on waxing poetic on his favourite fighters while going through hoops to diminish others. He admittedly takes great delight in trying to piss serious posters off which makes him a useless waste of bandwith on any boxing site aimed at mature discussion. He was recently banned over at CBZ (who thankfully screen the quality of postings) for his ridiculous and ignorant opinions.

Henry feel free to drop me a PM and I'll direct you to where you should be posting.

Thanks Sabbath, I will get back to you this week-end. Right now I have to go to the wake and funeral of Joe Louis Parham. Joe was the 1st Pro opponent you my good friend Emile Griffith and one nice guy.

Tomorrow, I have to stop at an old time boxing writer and photographer and then I have to go to Trenton to oversee the Amateur bouts that they are having.

The reason I come on these sites is both to educate people and to also learn. Yes learn, no matter who it is, everyone has something to add and I might learn something in return.

I do go on CBZ, and I enjoy it very much. I should go on their more.

Thanks, Henry Hascup

[hhascup]

Well if Louis never fought anyone like Ali then why use Conn as a example? If they bothed danced and boxed circles wouldnt that be a close enough comparision to say Louis did infact fight someone like and I stress LIKE Ali? Age can not have a affect on a fighters prime example Hopkins seemed to of got better and better but finally around 40's he seems to show the signs. Weight IMO wouldnt be that much of a factor due to each fighters styles. Simply put it all comes down t if you think Louis can catch Ali enough , or if Ali could dance away for 15. Thats why I belive Louis would figure Ali out and return with several tactics to get the Win. Ali can knock Louis down and Louis can knock Ali down.

The difference is that Conn weighed approx. 175 if that and Ali weighed 210-220. Also Conn had only 13 knockouts in 70 bouts at the time he fought Louis the 1st time. Ali had 37 KO's in his 61 bouts. You might say that Ali didn't punch that hard, BUT he punched a lot harder then Conn did.

[LondonRingRules]

I am not saying that I know more then anyone on this site, BUT I do have a background. I am a charter member of IBRO, which started back in 1983. I am one of the editors on BoxRec. I have researched or worked with Herb Goldman, Bert Sugar as well as many other boxing experts and historians.

** That is great background if true, but if you will look at your language concerning Louis when he's down for the final count, I really don't see how anyone can read that without thinking that you claim Louis just quit, laid down.

I frankly get a bit POed at all the acclaim Ali gets when the fight film reveals a different picture. He fell into the best period for a young ****y fighter to break into the heavyweight scene, and then does suffer from his personal belief system but holds true and mounts a credible comeback with two of some of the most acclaimed fights in history.

But then there is the rest of the story that gets swept under the rug.

One of the all time great talent, yes. One of the all time great personalities, yes. The greatest? Only in name. Had some significant flaws. Overall the world is much poorer without him.

So, at any rate, it's always a good day when I get to get on my high horse about Joe Louis, so thanks.

[LondonRingRules]

I posted a long response last night to you then deleted it but

** Hey, Ozzie Jr., it don't matter how much effort you throw into your shoeshine, batscat ain't ain't going to improve your shine.

I've vaguely remember enjoying getting locked up with you over favored fighters, but if you think that somehow you got something over me, well lay it out and don't be hiding behind some keyboard smirking like some schoolboy on a ****site.

[hhascup]

** That is great background if true, but if you will look at your language concerning Louis when he's down for the final count, I really don't see how anyone can read that without thinking that you claim Louis just quit, laid down.

I frankly get a bit POed at all the acclaim Ali gets when the fight film reveals a different picture. He fell into the best period for a young ****y fighter to break into the heavyweight scene, and then does suffer from his personal belief system but holds true and mounts a credible comeback with two of some of the most acclaimed fights in history.

But then there is the rest of the story that gets swept under the rug.

One of the all time great talent, yes. One of the all time great personalities, yes. The greatest? Only in name. Had some significant flaws. Overall the world is much poorer without him.

So, at any rate, it's always a good day when I get to get on my high horse about Joe Louis, so thanks.

Maybe we got off on the wrong side. All I am saying is that Louis didn't try to get up after being dropped by Schmeling the 2nd time.

Louis did show heart in many of his fights and no one can say that he wasn't a Great Great Fighter.

What you read about me is all true. I have been the President of the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame for 22 years, the President of the New Jersey Diamond Gloves for 20 years and I have been both their Historians in 1980. I also ring announce & MC at times, if you go to some of the web sites, you can read about most of it.

I use to be on baseball, football, hockey, basketball trivia sites and contests until people start saying everyone knows that they are after 2nd place, meaning that I had 1st place all by myself.

A while back I found a boxing trivia site and after a couple of weeks they gave me a belt and changed the site to read:
Boxing Trivia: Boxing quizzes, trivia, facts, home of the trivia king hhascup

Well I got to go to the wake now, as I have to give the eulogy.

Thanks once again and lets all be friends, Henry