Who was better Dempsey or Tunney?

[Dr. Z]

Well, Tunney won 18 or 19 rounds " As it is repoted " of the total 20 fought. IMO, he would have KO'd Dempsey had one of the fights been 15 rounds. Dempsey needed help to find Tunney in one of the fights to shake his hand after the fight was over.


Getting beat 2 x Tunney, while Dempsey was 31 and 32

Ducking his #1 challenger Wills

Not facing Harry Greb

Yet Dempsey is seen as the better? Find me two examples in boxing heavyweight histroy where the loser of two head to head matches that were not commpetive is seen as the better when he was under 33.

[JAB5239]

Tunney scored a flash KD in the eight.

Dempsey scored a devastating KD in the seventh.

Barry was inconsistent in counting the KDs. It makes him suspect.

Nothing more really can be said except conjecture as to what might have happened.

What I see.

RE The point with an above remark.

Dempsey did try to follow the rule. So much so that when he freezes after the KD, Barry instructs him to a "neutral" corner. (We'll never know what Barry said,) but Dempsey, trying to stay within the rules, foolishly begins to move deeper into the closest corner, only to have Barry become more animated. Dempsey quickly realizes his mistake and heads for a neutral corner.

Barry then chose to follow Dempsey to the corner, even though Dempsey is in-route himself.

Barry returns to Tunney and hears four from the KD counter at ringside, but chooses to start at one anyway.

I suspect even Tunney was surprised by Barry's decision to start at one. When Barry begins the count Tunney starts to rise for a moment but then sits back down and relaxes when he realizes Barry is only just beginning his count.

Tunney had maybe the best ring IQ ever. His only time ever on the canvas and he handled it perfectly. Even having the presence of mind to take full advantage of Barry's erroneous count.

Tunney said he could have e gotten up at two, that would have made the count at 6 with plenty of time to get up but chose to take the extra time to recover. Dempsey himself said he had no reason to believe Gene couldn't have gotten up when he said he could have. Point being though, Tunney followed the refs count, which is what he is supposed to do, Much the way Douglas did against Tyson though there was no long count there.

[Willie Pep 229]

Tunney said he could have e gotten up at two, that would have made the count at 6 with plenty of time to get up but chose to take the extra time to recover. Dempsey himself said he had no reason to believe Gene couldn't have gotten up when he said he could have. Point being though, Tunney followed the refs count, which is what he is supposed to do, Much the way Douglas did against Tyson though there was no long count there.

I don't see us at odds in this.

But for a what if . . .

What if Tunney had risen on "two," (6) would his legs been there? He did then procede to literally run away from Dempsey until he composed himself.

Could Dempsey have chased him down if Tunney's legs were still shaky? Watch how he leaps away when he does get up. If he has to get up 5 seconds sooner he doesn't make the first move he makes.

Are those five seconds important? Ask Zab Judah.

But it's all conjecture on my part.

To repeat what I said above, Tunney was never on the canvas before, yet he handled it perfectly. High ring IQ

[Willie Pep 229]

Tunney said he could have e gotten up at two, that would have made the count at 6 with plenty of time to get up but chose to take the extra time to recover. Dempsey himself said he had no reason to believe Gene couldn't have gotten up when he said he could have. Point being though, Tunney followed the refs count, which is what he is supposed to do, Much the way Douglas did against Tyson though there was no long count there.

The Douglas-Tyson KDs and the counts were identical. The referee did a perfect count, coming in at 13 1/2 seconds for each fighter. One can not ask for more from a refree except a consistent count. It was there.

In Chicago, 1927

Obvious: Dave Barry handled the two KD in a very different manner.

Conjecture: It exposed Barry's willingness to jump Dempsey but protect Tunney (Maybe).

You are avoiding that reality when you compare it to Douglas-Tyson.

[Bronson66]

I don't see us at odds in this.

But for a what if . . .

What if Tunney had risen on "two," (6) would his legs been there? He did then procede to literally run away from Dempsey until he composed himself.

Could Dempsey have chased him down if Tunney's legs were still shaky? Watch how he leaps away when he does get up. If he has to get up 5 seconds sooner he doesn't make the first move he makes.

Are those five seconds important? Ask Zab Judah.

But it's all conjecture on my part.

To repeat what I said above, Tunney was never on the canvas before, yet he handled it perfectly. High ring IQ

Tunney said he could have gotten up earlier,he also said he didn't know if he could have survived the round.
Dave Barry was a controversial choice as the third man,he had ,"connections," and ran a speakeasy

[Bronson66]

Tunney scored a flash KD in the eight.

Dempsey scored a devastating KD in the seventh.

Barry was inconsistent in counting the KDs. It makes him suspect.

Nothing more really can be said except conjecture as to what might have happened.

What I see.

RE The point with an above remark.

Dempsey did try to follow the rule. So much so that when he freezes after the KD, Barry instructs him to a "neutral" corner. (We'll never know what Barry said,) but Dempsey, trying to stay within the rules, foolishly begins to move deeper into the closest corner, only to have Barry become more animated. Dempsey quickly realizes his mistake and heads for a neutral corner.

Barry then chose to follow Dempsey to the corner, even though Dempsey is in-route himself.

Barry returns to Tunney and hears four from the KD counter at ringside, but chooses to start at one anyway.

I suspect even Tunney was surprised by Barry's decision to start at one. When Barry begins the count Tunney starts to rise for a moment but then sits back down and relaxes when he realizes Barry is only just beginning his count.

Tunney had maybe the best ring IQ ever. His only time ever on the canvas and he handled it perfectly. Even having the presence of mind to take full advantage of Barry's erroneous count.

Tunney was floored by Leo Houck in a 1920 fight.

The Jersey Journal reports Houck was floored in the 7th round, but dropped Tunney to one knee in the 9th.

[QueensburyRules]

You said Dempsey KO'd Tunney. That's not true. Tunney followed the count. Not his fault Dempsey didn't go to a neutral corner.

- - Tunney was out at the 10 sec mark that a 10 count represents, but of course U wouldn't know anything about any of this. Ref flubbed it just like Octavio Meyran flubbed the Buster Douglas count so as to give the heavily sedated Mike Tyson a loss so DKing could clean up on the heavy betting odds and have better control over Mike.

[Bronson66]

- - tunney was out at the 10 sec mark that a 10 count represents, but of course u wouldn't know anything about any of this. Ref flubbed it just like octavio meyran flubbed the buster douglas count so as to give the heavily sedated mike tyson a loss so dking could clean up on the heavy betting odds and have better control over mike.

more nonsense

[JAB5239]

The Douglas-Tyson KDs and the counts were identical. The referee did a perfect count, coming in at 13 1/2 seconds for each fighter. One can not ask for more from a refree except a consistent count. It was there.

In Chicago, 1927

Obvious: Dave Barry handled the two KD in a very different manner.

Conjecture: It exposed Barry's willingness to jump Dempsey but protect Tunney (Maybe).

You are avoiding that reality when you compare it to Douglas-Tyson.

I myself have never questioned the count in the Douglas-Tyson fight. But there are some absent minded posters here that still do.

[QueensburyRules]

more nonsense

- - More Tonto, eh?