Why Ali was not the greatest

[PRINCEKOOL]

I've done a lot of thinking about this. I've always appreciated Ali's enormous physical skills and ring generalship, but something has always held me back from proclaiming him the best ever. Now I realize that, in my opinion, Ali simply took too many fights "off." Maybe comparable to how Shaq approaches the game of basketball (shows up during the playoffs)? To me, this lackadaisacal tendancy is completely unacceptable. It is probably what nearly got him knocked out versus Henry Cooper (saved by Dundee's "rip"), and it is definitely what caused him to lose the heavyweight title to a 7-fight pro (a complete disgrace to himself, the sport, and the luster of the heavyweight title, regardless of the result of the rematch).
While Michael Jordan may have had an off-night here and there, his committment every night was to play as hard as possible at all times. Sadly, Ali seemed to consider himself above that consistent, workmanlike approach. In my opinion, what George Foreman accomplished as a 40-plus-year-old fighter (actually able to seriously mix it up with some of the best in the division AND winning the title again...by KNOCKOUT!) makes him, to me, the best heavyweight champion ever.

Muhammad Ali trained to the level of his opponent or to the level of how much he felt threatened 'It is a known fact that he was lazy trainer in some ways'. But one thing Muhammad Ali had going for him? He was big time performer, showed up on the big stage.

[Naps]

Naps...your an idiot.

Truth is Marciano was a far greater fighter than Frazier. Most feel Joe would always give Ali hell. Joe when he beat Ali weighed only 205 lbs. Rocky had two fisted punching power. Frazier all left hook. Frazier was the only heavyweight champion to never knock any opponent down with his right hand.

Break out of your fantasy world.

Shut your ****** mouth. How many Marciano fights have you seen? 3 maybe 4? And it's cheesy when you call him 'Rocky'.

I never brought Frazier into it, but as you did, anyone with half a brain knows that Frazier would murder Marciano. Frazier was a dangerous operator.

You're a ******.

[Naps]

******* everywhere acting like they followed the career of Rocky Marciano. Embarrasing.

Just stop it. There's next to nothing in terms of video of his fights.

It's a joke seeing people claiming Marciano. Joke.

[HOUDINI563]

Naps, you’re an idiot.

All Marcianos major bouts were filmed.

Watch that video that outlines Marciano skills. His ability to parry alone puts him ahead of Frazier on defense. Offensively Joe was a one handed heavyweight. Marciano could knock you dead with either fist.

Don’t worry when I was a teen like you I also felt Rocky was overrated. Then I learned how to fight and realized just how great he actually was. Study up, you may get there one day.

[QueensburyRules]

Naps, you’re an idiot.

All Marcianos major bouts were filmed.

Watch that video that outlines Marciano skills. His ability to parry alone puts him ahead of Frazier on defense. Offensively Joe was a one handed heavyweight. Marciano could knock you dead with either fist.

Don’t worry when I was a teen like you I also felt Rocky was overrated. Then I learned how to fight and realized just how great he actually was. ""Study up,
""you may get there one day.

- -Yo, one my ol' AOL lines. You finally got there!

Cong****...

[Silas]

Ali was a great fighter for sure, and one of the best heavyweights ever, but I don't even have him in the top 10 PvP of all-time

And it is largely because of what the OP says: you were never sure which Ali was going to show up, and what kind of commitment he was going to demonstrate. He could be lazy and coast, rarely went to the body or tried to do something imaginative, and didn't have a lot of power. He won fights by being awkward, difficult to figure out, etc.

He tended to box down to his competition, something Tyson (in his prime) never did. Guys he should have beaten easily within 4-5 rounds instead went the distance.

Iron Mike, Dempsey, Louis, and other champions obliterated dudes who were not up to the task of winning the championship.

Now I am not taking anything away from Ali in terms of his skill --he was a boxing genius for sure. But I think he could have done more. It isn't always about your skills: it is also about determination, resolve, aggressiveness, etc.

[HOUDINI563]

You are talking about Ali late in his career. Prime Ali always came to a bout in shape. Post his 4 year forced layoff he came to some bouts in less than great shape notably vs Young and Spinks 1.

Ali is pretty much universally considered the greatest of all heavyweight champions. He is also included within all time p4p lists. Typically top ten.

[ShoulderRoll]

Joe Frazier was an Olympic gold medalist and as a pro under the tutelage of Yank Durham and Eddie Futch he only ever lost to two men, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali.

It's certainly not controversial to rank him above Rocky Marciano.

[HOUDINI563]

Frazier was several notches below Marciano from a skill standpoint.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Could create a veritable blizzard of fighters with tremendous skills and natural attributes who were never more than journeymen.

Greatness is for Valhalla to bestow, not lowbrow fight fans. In their own inimitable style and era, the greats have proven it which is all any fighter can ever do.