What if Josh Barnett would have stayed in the UFC in 2002.

[number6]

Simple question here.

What if Barnett would have stayed in the UFC in 2002(if he wouldnt have been caught for steroid abuse). How long would he have held the title for?

Who would have been good enough to defeat him?

In the mix we have people like Ricco,Sylvia,Arlovski and Mir.

Im not sure any of those guys could have beat him

Any thoughts?

[-Swizzy-]

the only guy that would have had a chance against him is Mir. I think Mir and him would have close hard fights but I would have to give the edge to Barnett. So I think that Barnett would have been champ up until Lesnar's arrival.

[number6]

the only guy that would have had a chance against him is Mir. I think Mir and him would have close hard fights but I would have to give the edge to Barnett. So I think that Barnett would have been champ up until Lesnar's arrival.

I dont think Lesnar is at Barnetts level, not yet anyway.

Ricco would have had the best chance imo, but i would still favor Barnett.

[jakkups]

Simple question here.

What if Barnett would have stayed in the UFC in 2002(if he wouldnt have been caught for steroid abuse). How long would he have held the title for?

Who would have been good enough to defeat him?

In the mix we have people like Ricco,Sylvia,Arlovski and Mir.

Im not sure any of those guys could have beat him

Any thoughts?

In short, as long as he wanted. He would've been a big fish in a small pond. The UFC always had the weak HW division when PRIDE was about and it only started getting good in the past year and a half. It was better for him to go elsewhere than stay because in PRIDE they started out with just HWs which was why their HW division was so stacked and deep with talent by the time Josh won the UFC HW title.

[-Swizzy-]

I dont think Lesnar is at Barnetts level, not yet anyway.

Ricco would have had the best chance imo, but i would still favor Barnett.

well, if you think about it, how would barnett go about beating lesnar? he wouldn't be able to handle him on the ground and he isn't as good of a puncher as Lesnar is IMO. I dont' see Barnett beating Lesnar unless he gets a lucky submission like Mir did.

[number6]

well, if you think about it, how would barnett go about beating lesnar? he wouldn't be able to handle him on the ground and he isn't as good of a puncher as Lesnar is IMO. I dont' see Barnett beating Lesnar unless he gets a lucky submission like Mir did.

He has better stand up than Brock, he would have a good takedown defence and if he went to the floor he wouldnt try to play a relaxed chess game why Lesnar unloads on him like Mir did.He would fight for position more landing strikes of his own.

I think he could take Brock into the later stages in the fight and either finish him on stand up or sub him/ gnp him. I know it sounds unlikely that anyone can get Lesnar on his back, but i think in a long fight somewhere in the fight Barnett would have his moment on the ground.

Lets face it Brock is going to get better and better in this sport, but at this point i would take Barnett to finish him.

[-Swizzy-]

He has better stand up than Brock, he would have a good takedown defence and if he went to the floor he wouldnt try to play a relaxed chess game why Lesnar unloads on him like Mir did.He would fight for position more landing strikes of his own.

I think he could take Brock into the later stages in the fight and either finish him on stand up or sub him/ gnp him. I know it sounds unlikely that anyone can get Lesnar on his back, but i think in a long fight somewhere in the fight Barnett would have his moment on the ground.

Lets face it Brock is going to get better and better in this sport, but at this point i would take Barnett to finish him.

thats the kind of **** he'd do to OTHER fighters, not brock. He wouldn't have a good take down defense against a guy who has WAY mores strength and wrestling skills than him. And brock's standup is really underrated. He has one of the most explosive straight right punches I've seen in mma. just re-watch his fights and you will see. he broke Heath Hearings orbital bone on his first punch of the fight and sent Herring flying backwards. He has dropped Couture(did boxing in the military) and dropped Mir. Seriously, Lesnar's standup is really underrated.

[jakkups]

thats the kind of **** he'd do to OTHER fighters, not brock. He wouldn't have a good take down defense against a guy who has WAY mores strength and wrestling skills than him. And brock's standup is really underrated. He has one of the most explosive straight right punches I've seen in mma. just re-watch his fights and you will see. he broke Heath Hearings orbital bone on his first punch of the fight and sent Herring flying backwards. He has dropped Couture(did boxing in the military) and dropped Mir. Seriously, Lesnar's standup is really underrated.

The guys he has dropped have been dropped before and finished before. Mir had been done in less than a round by Vera who is now at 205. Couture had been stretched out cold by Liddell twice at 205 and Herring had been stopped by Crocop and mauled, stopped and left in a far worse state by Fedor in 10 minutes than Brock did in 15 minutes. Plus with Herring and Couture you had prime versions of the fighters, not a guy coming in off of a 15 month layoff and a guy who was a shell of the fighter he once was.

I do think his standup underrated but I don't think it's very good either. It's very stiff and basic much like his training partner Sean Sherk. But he does have power which can make up for it. What he does works so long as he can get off first. But again I also think that his striking can look good because anyone who is gonna get in there with him is expecting the takedown rather than the standup aspect which makes them hesistant to throwdown a la Alves vs GSP.

[-Swizzy-]

The guys he has dropped have been dropped before and finished before. Mir had been done in less than a round by Vera who is now at 205. Couture had been stretched out cold by Liddell twice at 205 and Herring had been stopped by Crocop and mauled, stopped and left in a far worse state by Fedor in 10 minutes than Brock did in 15 minutes. Plus with Herring and Couture you had prime versions of the fighters, not a guy coming in off of a 15 month layoff and a guy who was a shell of the fighter he once was.

I do think his standup underrated but I don't think it's very good either. It's very stiff and basic much like his training partner Sean Sherk. But he does have power which can make up for it. What he does works so long as he can get off first. But again I also think that his striking can look good because anyone who is gonna get in there with him is expecting the takedown rather than the standup aspect which makes them hesistant to throwdown a la Alves vs GSP.

those reasons don't prove Lesnar's lack of striking skills. you just talked about how all those guys were dropped, and then you named some of the best strikers in the game that dropped them. Cro Cop was a sick striker back in the day. Him smashing Herring doesn't prove that Lesnar has lack of power.

and yes, Lesnar's striking is very basic, but it is effective which is the most important thing. All he needs is one punch to hurt his opponent. If that doesn't count as good striking, then I don't know what does.

[jakkups]

those reasons don't prove Lesnar's lack of striking skills. you just talked abou thow all those guys were dropped, and then you named some of the best strikers in the game that dropped them. Cro Cop was a sick striker back in the day. Him smatching Herring doesn't prove that Lesnar has lack of power.

and yes, Lesnar's striking is very basic, but it is effective which is the most important thing. All he needs is one punch to hurt his opponent. If that doesn't count as good striking, then I don't know what does.

You obviously think that I am one of those that "hate" Lesnar but I am not a hater. I truly believe that given a year or 2 of fighting and keeping active throughout he can be close to unstoppable in his division. All I'm doing is pointing out the things that he needs work on as opposed to just pointing out the things he is already very good at. I just call it how I see it. There's no point talking about the stuff he's good at i.e. wrestling, conditioning, athletic ability, strength, size, speed etc, because it's not anything new nor is it gonna change anytime soon. I'm just looking at him as any other fighter and seeing what I feel could be improved upon, such as his striking, rather than dwelling on what he is already good at. Just because I think his striking isn't very good doesn't have any bearing on how good he is as a fighter. He's proved he can win fights, but to me he hasn't proved he has very good striking.

I never said he doesn't have power, I said the power he does have makes up for the basic way he strikes. And it's because it's basic at this point in time that he didn't finish these guys in the fashion they have been before by the guys I mentioned who are guys with very good striking in comparison to Brock. With the same kind of snap and technique that seasoned vets have he could end fights before they even get going. With time, drilling and sparring he can get better and I believe he will because the guys learning curve is fast.

Also power does not equal good striking or prove that Lesnar is a good striker. It just proves he has power. You can have all the power in the world but if there is nothing to hit it's useless (See Hamed vs Barrera). Again the power he has makes up for the basic way he throws strikes. Power/strength is the difference maker if technique between individuals is equal (See GSP vs BJ Penn II) and vice versa (See Joe Stevenson vs Luke Cummo). Plus most of his damage is done on the ground using his strikes effectively not on the feet.

Out of all his opponents, Herring had the best striking. And other than that one punch that put Herring down Brock just wrestled him the entire fight and controlled him on the ground for 15 minutes. With Mir the first time he caught Frank once on the feet but the rest of the time it was on the ground. The second time round he just kept a high guard and drew Frank into following him before he clinch up and took him to the ground where all the damage was done. And against Randy, minus the takedowns and clinching on the fence, it was pretty much even on the feet when it was toe to toe with Brock throwing more but Randy landing at the higher percentage. Difference there was the power and Randy leaving himself open in the pocket. It was more or less a carbon copy of when Randy fought Josh Barnett where he was doing fine until the size, strength and power of Barnett came into play. None of his fights proved he had very good striking nor very bad striking because other than the Randy fight none of them were on the feet long enough to warrant any memorable exchanges or showcase anything other than basic skills and power.