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Daily Bread Mailbag: Wilder, Ortiz, Roy Jones, Eubank, Canelo

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards discussing various topics, such as Deontay Wilder's knockout of Luis Ortiz, the upcoming fight between Daniel Jacobs and Sulecki, the career or Roy Jones Jr., Chris Eubank Jr. and more.

Greetings from Canada,

A few things, if you don't mind:

1. It was reported that Canelo is training in Colorado in order to make use of the elevation. The plan is to have him in the best physical condition as possible. Obviously this has helped fighters in the past (and most directly, GGG), but given Canelo's sporadic bursts each round, how much will it help him, and is it a risky idea making such a drastic switch before a fight of this magnitude? Could it have an adverse effect? Also, does it move you closer to a Canelo win prediction? As of yesterday on oddsshark.com GGG is a -170 betting favourite. Do the odds makers gods see something everyone else doesn't?

2. Speaking of camps, does having Gassiev, coming off a big win, and training at the same time as GGG (their next bouts are only a week apart) make them distract or help each other as they prepare for their biggest fights in their respective careers?

3. Joe Louis vs Evander Holyfield. Who wins?

Keep up the good work.

Jay

Bread’s Response: Training in elevation can be harmful if not done correctly. I don’t want to say too much but there is a science to elevation training and it’s not just going into the mountains training hard then leaving for the fight. I don’t know exactly what Canelo is doing so I can’t say for sure, but I think what will benefit him the most is being in the ring with GGG for 12 previous rounds.

GGG deserves to be the favorite he won the 1st fight. -170 is very close for a fighter of GGG’s caliber. I expect another close fight. The odds reflect that.

Nothing Gassiev is doing will effect GGG. If anything it will inspire him. Abel Sanchez runs a tight ship. Sanchez does not allow distractions.

Trainers in the gym were just talking about Louis vs Holyfield. This is a fascinating match up. Similar in size and stature. Similar in mental makeup. Louis fights off the “step”. Holyfield off the “bounce”. Fighters who fight off the bounce usually have a slight speed advantage. I think this would be a brutal fight and Holyfield would have a great chance to score a historical upset. But on their best nights I think Louis is more neat. In an even fight I say Louis hits Holyfield with something he never sees and clips late. Say Louis in 13.

Hi Breadman, how's things going?

    I'm anxious to hear your early view for the 4/28/18 bout, Jacobs & Sulecki? Would you agree Sulecki looks dangerous to Danny? Also, would you grade Sulecki, based on his shown talent, higher than his current world MW ranking #6? I'm predicting an upset, Sulecki by late round KO of Danny.  I appreciate your insights!

Thank you!

Curtis/Cincy

Bread’s Response: I know a few people who like Sulecki to upset Jacobs. Sulecki is no joke and he seems better at 160 than he does at 154. This is a real fight. Sulecki just struggled with Jack Culcay but Culcay is really good. Culcay won 5 rounds from Demetrius Andrade previously. I won’t predict an upset but Jacobs better be in shape.

Sulecki is a reactive fighter. Everytime you do something to him he does it back to you. He also is big and he has a mean streak. I think Jacobs may be a little too athletic but it won’t be easy.

Hey Bread, longtime fan of your always interesting mailbags. A couple of questions for you:

1. Who would you pick to win in a fight between these brothers?

-Juan Manuel or Rafael Marquez?

-Mikey or Robert Garcia?

-Terry or Orlin Norris?

-Vitali or Wladimir Klitschko?

2. What are the best three fights that can be made in boxing today?

3. You favourite title fight from the last few years?

4. What never-realized fight would you have liked to see come to pass?


/Stefan

Bread’s Response: Juan Manuel, Mikey, Orlin and Vitali.

Wilder vs Joshua, Spence vs Crawford and Loma vs Garcia.

Favorite title fight of the last few years…..It depends on what you consider a few years. But I will say Roman Gonzalez vs Juan Estrada. That was two great fighters in their prime really going at it. It’s on youtube. Great display of skill.

Roy Jones vs Gerald McClellan.

Man Bam Bam looked really rough at first.  Throwing punches like you would see some dinga ling throw at a bar fight.  I know that’s his mantra, the tough guy, but I wonder how much they actually worked in the gym.  Or how much they worked on the weight.  His coordination was off a lot.  I think Paulie touched on Garcia’s movement playing into that also, but I was surprised.  Dude used to knock dudes down with a jab 5 years ago.  I really hope he can financially simplify his life so he doesn’t need to box anymore.  I think he would be a fun guy. 

David Benavidez is fun to watch.  I think he had a taylor made guy last night, but he was impressive.  I hope he has a granite chin because he could entertain for a long time at the highest level given he is 21.  I really like watching him fight especially since he doesn’t appear to be athletic at all.  But he is very athletic.  Unfortunately, in his youth he was allowed to eat a certain way, his body will never look like a world champions body.  Evander Holyfield, Tim Bradley, the greek statue guys, that will never be him.  Hopefully he has their heart and grit.

I know clinching is a part of boxing.  I wish they would take it out.  DSG uses it as defense much like John Ruiz did.  Just not as egregious.  Regardless, I absolutely hate it and wish they would deduct points.  I think clinching is ok when a fighter is young and doesn’t know what to do, so their first instinct is to grab.  At a championship level, I absolutely hate it.  I’m from Iowa, grew up loving wrestling.  This isn’t wrestling, your supposed to punch people in boxing.  Not hug them.  I also understand the clinching when fighters end up in weird positions.  Using clinching to nullify a fighters game plan to cut the ring off to make you fight just pisses me off.  Even a hurt fighter clinching is somewhat acceptable.  Help me look at this from a different perspective so Its not so off putting please.

DJ

Bread’s Response: We agree on Bam Bam. We agree on Benavidez.

I don’t have a problem with clinching but I don’t like excessive clinching. We will never be able to take it out but a certain number of clinches/round should be allowed. Anything more and points will be taken away. Let’s say 4 clinches/round.

Hi Bread,

Love the bag and enjoy getting your take on all things boxing.

Can you give me your take on an old debate that persists re. Roy Jones's "misses," and whether he is guilty of having too many, as his critics claim. Was the "Reluctant Roy" tag plain hating or is there some truth to it? Is his legacy tarnished for not going overseas when he was at 168 and facing a Benn , Eubank ,or Collins...and not making the fight with  Michalczewski at 175?

Bread’s Response: Great question. Every Roy miss was NOT his fault. There are other fighters of his era that don’t get the same hit that he does. For example James Toney never fought any of the great UK super middleweights either. Bernard Hopkins was supposed to fight Joe Calzaghe much earlier….. Only Roy gets the hit…

But that doesn’t mean Roy didn’t have misses or ducks. I think Roy Jones is top 25 fighters ever and I have been one of his biggest supporters. So this is coming from an objective place.

I don’t blame him for Michalchewski. I think Michalchewski over cooked his grease although I think Roy should have sweetened the offer to get him over here. The #1 American fighter in the world has never had to travel abroad to take that kind of fight. It wouldn’t be fair for us to put that on Roy.

I also don’t blame Roy for not making the Hopkins rematch sooner. Roy beat Bhop in their 1st fight and he was a bigger star. No way would anyone in that situation take 50/50. That was not Roy’s fault.

Here is what I do blame Roy for. His duck of Michael Nunn. This duck caused a huge lawsuit with the WBC and it was just bizarre. No one really talks about it now but 20 years ago this was a big deal. For whatever reasons Roy just didn’t want any parts of Michael Nunn and he stood by it and never fought him.

Roy also didn’t make the fight with Steve Collins when Collins was on a serious roll. Collins had defeated Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn twice apiece and he rejuvenated his career at 168. He ended his career on a big win streak and he was willing to fight Roy……

Roy didn’t really have an esteemed run at 160 as a champion. After he beat Bernard Hopkins a big unification would have been him vs Gerald McClellan who was the WBO and WBC champion. The fight was never made and Roy fought a few non title fights, 1 defense vs Thomas Tate then he moved up. That fight was makeable.

The big one for me was Nigel Benn. Benn has ended the career of Roy’s good friend McClellan. And Benn was one of the few UK stars who would travel. He came to the states and kod Iran Barkley in 1 round. After Benn beat McClellan, everyone wanted Roy to get revenge. I don’t know what happened with the negotiations but that would have epic. I’m not saying that it was Roy’s fault but I am saying that was a super fight left on the table.

Hi Bread, how do you rate Eubank and Groves after last night's fight? Eubank didn't seem to have much of a gameplan and was swinging wildly out of frustration. How do you think the fact that he basically trains himself contribute to his performance?

Smith-Braehmer. How do you see this one playing out? I am thinking of putting something on Brahmer, he's about +500 and looked really impressive against Rob Brant. You mentioned Smith gets off too slow. Brahmer might just get the decision in Germany.

How do you see Groves-Smith (or Groves-Brahmer) playing out?

Bread’s Response: I didn’t know Eubank trained himself I thought his father trained him. I was very disappointed in his performance. He showed tremendous heart and will. But from a technical POV he fought a terrible fight. Sometimes a win or loss is out of a fighter’s control but technical application is not. Eubank can not fight moving forward. He doesn’t jab. He gets visibly frustrated and wild. I hate to come down hard on him because I like him. But this was one of the worst big fight performances I have ever seen.

Groves is a solid and capable champion. He may not ever be a “great” fighter but he’s a very good one.

I think Braehmer was just injured so……

It's refreshing to read wisdom like yours. Candid comments from someone who knows what he's seeing.

I judged for a number of years and saw some good fights. I did the last fight of Sad ole' Buster Douglas in Burlington Iowa. He won and was done.

In terms of the judging scenario today and the debates on the greats of the 80's I still give ring generalship and effective aggression a lot of weight in scoring. That doesn't seem to work with today's judges. I believe the 80's judges today would stop the insanity and with them in place the 80's fighters would own the "champs" of today.

Do I make sense?

How would you compare the 80' to today in both the fighters and the judging?

Steve Stahler

Bread’s Response: Judging should be judging unless the rules have changed. What bothers me is that the criterion seems to have changed without formal notice. I won’t say there wasn’t bad decisions in the 80s because there were. Fights were just 15 rounds and it’s easier to get them right over more rounds and odd number of rounds.

Clean Punching, Effective Aggressiveness, Defense and Ring Generalship are the 4 points on how to score a fight. If anyone changes that and inserts their subjective preferences they are tainting the scoring process. It’s really that simple.

Hi Bread!  Keep up the great mail bag.

Love to hear your thoughts on the young Goldenboy fighter Ryan Garcia. Crazy hand speed, still growing and wants a title shot this year.

Cheers,

Luke

Bread’s Response: Garcia has the fastest hands in boxing. I like what I see but obviously we need to see a lot more.

Quick rant….Danny Garcia is always in set up fights. The one fight that wasn’t a set up fight he lost, Keith Thurman. He won’t fight Shawn Porter because that’s not a set up fight. Matthysse lost to Judah and Alexander, Khan coming off of lost to Peterson, Morales old and shot ex featherweight, Guerrero old and shot ex featherweight, Judah old and shot, Malignaggi old and shot, Peterson catchweight, Rios old and shot, Salka worst matchmaking in history, Herrera limited… all set up fights. Don’t look at the outcome look at the circumstances. I know Danny is your boy but he’s all smoke and mirrors. The one thing about Danny I respect is he appears to be PED free other than that he’s not my cup of tea. Gary Russell has been champion for 3 years and only has 2 title defenses. He’s shameful. Demetrius Andrade wants to fight until someone wants to fight him. Then he disappears. He’s with HBO and at 160 now but you don’t hear a peep out of him because he can get fights now. Haymon is not blocking him anymore. Andrade is a joke.

Bread’s Response: I won’t argue about Garcia’s opponents because they all haven’t been killers. But I don’t criticize Danny often and here is why. Danny Garcia appears to be a clean fighter and I’m glad you brought that up. In an era where PED use is encouraged Danny looks clean. Everything about him says he’s a clean fighter. Without calling anyone out we know who’s messing around in boxing. Off the record or on the record you don’t hear Danny’s name in any PED mess. He’s one of the 20% of the top guys who are clean. Because of this I don’t go over board with my criticism. Danny is up against a lot. No one in boxing from the networks, to managers, to promoter’s care who is using PEDs. They only care who gets caught. So Danny’s team is careful….. All I will say is I understand why. Hopefully Danny gets some big fights under stringent testing.

I think Gary Russell could be the best featherweight in the world. I have no idea why he doesn’t fight more often. He’s a great talent.

I also don’t know what’s going on with Demetrius Andrade. I know he has an HBO deal. I would love to see him in the mix but he never seems to get any momentum built up. I read that a fight with Sergiy Derevyanchenko was offered. Not sure what happened with that but that was a real challenge. Let’s see what happens in 2018 for Andrade.

wilder-ortiz-fight (65)

Wow what a fight and what a prediction. I saw your ESPN predicition and you said Wilder gets off the canvas down on points and wins by ko. Man that was on point. What is it with Wilder that makes him so effective? How great was that fight? Top 10 ever at heavyweight?

Bread’s Response: My prediction was correct but to nitpick myself Wilder was hurt bad but he didn’t go down. He stood up under some heavy shots and won a thrilling fight. My hats are off to him. I want to touch on a few things.

I really want to give Luis Ortiz props. He fought a tremendous fight considering he was busted for PEDS in the past. I’m really big on fighters fighting clean. Ortiz fought a great fight under CLEAN circumstances. I hope more fighters follow suit. We are in an “DIRTY” era people but these guys need to be forced to perform clean.

Now onto Wilder. The sum of Wilder’s parts, outweighs him broken down. His total package is elite. No he’s not an elite boxer. No he’s not superior technically. But he understands how to land his Sunday punch and he does not discourage. He also understands that his opponent’s don’t have the reaction time to defend his 1-2 down the middle.

People love to bring up the fact that you have to be a giant heavyweight to be superior in this era. It’s not true. Wilder weighed in at 214. He had on sweat pants…Everytime Wilder feels threatened by an opponent he comes in lighter. Why do you guys think that is? A smaller man is usually a quicker man. Small masses are easier to fuel. Have you guys ever seen a marathon runner who was 250lbs? Even world class sprinters are closer to 200lbs. I’ve been telling you guys this for years. Bigger men don’t recover fast enough. It’s just that simple. Look how long it took Ortiz to recover after he shot his load in the 8th rd. The fight was essentially over because of a lack of stamina. Wilder simply recovered quicker and was able to force a stoppage.

Look at how long it took Anthony Joshua to recover in his fight vs Klitschko. If Klitschko was more of a killer he would have stopped Joshua. Larger muscles take more time to replenish. It’s really simple.

Size matters but it’s not the end all. Sometimes there is excess size that slows a fighter down and it has a negative effect on the fighter. I love the fact that Wilder’s best performances have come under 220. Great job Wilder.

For the record the 10 best heavyweights that have ever lived besides Lennox Lewis have all been between 190-220.

No it wasn’t top 10 heavyweight fights ever but it was an excellent fight.

This was a sensational weekend of boxing. The return of the Krusher. Bivol showing out. Uzcategui was a monster. Wilder did it again. What’s your take?

Bread’s Response: Kovalev seems really sparky and revitalized. I like what I saw from him. Some of it may be matchmaking but he looked good. The opponent was solid. Let’s see what he does next.

I really like Bivol. My goodness is he sound technically. He has elite level speed. He has excellent punching power. He has excellent technique. His balance is sound. His jab is elite. His stamina and composure was on par. The only thing he hasn’t shown he could do was infight on the elite level. If he were to ever fight Andre Ward he would have to be able to infight. But Bivol is going to be a problem. He could be the best lightheavyweight in the world. He has to prove it in the ring but man that guy can fight.

The UZI really impressed me. He has fun when he fights. He understands how to apply pressure. He cuts the ring down as well as anyone including GGG. I was impressed. He glides down the line and he throws touch shots, then he speeds up his hard stuff to surprise you. His defense is relaxed. He moves his head and he parries. The UZI as I like to call him ,is a big problem. He actually outboxed Dirrell. He just did it moving forward. This was a tremendous performance. I was totally in awe. I didn’t think Dirrell won one round against this kid. Not sure if he can beat David Benavidez but I would favor the UZI over everyone else at 168. He has really come into his own.

Yes Wilder did his thing. What a performance! That’s all I can say. Deontay Wilder is must see tv and he does VADA for every fight!

Send questions to [email protected]

Tags: boxing image  
User Comments and Feedback (Register For Free To Comment) Comment by Boxing Logic on 03-06-2018

Another disappointing mailbag. Just way too much PBC propaganda coming from the trainer of a boxer advised by the head of PBC Al Haymon. Danny Garcia is a clean fighter? That must be how he took flush power shots from…

Comment by The D3vil on 03-06-2018

Another great mailbag from the sage of the boxing game. I'm a believer that the sum of Wilder's parts makes him the best heavyweight in the game. His athleticism, stamina, insane power, and now chin make him capable of cleaning…

Comment by john l on 03-06-2018

[QUOTE=Illmatic94;18548819]Wilder is the new Foreman. clumsy uncoordinated technique with superhuman power. Wilder was cautious of Ortiz counters that's why he didn't throw the right as much early on. that showed his IQ. he didn't just force it. but Wilder is…

Comment by john l on 03-06-2018

[QUOTE=Butch.McRae;18547605]Another one...you really need to start your own platform. You drop way too much knowledge.[/QUOTE] I keep sayin that even started a thread on it.He needs to hire me as his agent.Sh it then he prob would be totally out…

Comment by Illmatic94 on 03-06-2018

Wilder is the new Foreman. clumsy uncoordinated technique with superhuman power. Wilder was cautious of Ortiz counters that's why he didn't throw the right as much early on. that showed his IQ. he didn't just force it. but Wilder is…

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