Daily Bread Mailbag: Spence-Thurman, Charlo, Lubin, PEDs, More

by Stephen "Breadman" Edward

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with numerous topics being tackled, like Errol Spence vs. Keith Thurman, the punching power of Jermell Charlo, random drug testing in boxing, the future of Erickson Lubin, and more.

Dam bro you went 2 for 3 and Trout almost pulled the upset so that one went how you expected. All three fights were intriguing but specifically I want to talk about Jermell Charlo. You said he would be the puncher in this fight but he only has a 50% ko ratio. I don’t think I can remember a fighter turning into a one punch ko artist 25 fights into his career. And the rage and behavior after the fight in my opinion is disrespectful to the game. Did Lubin say something out of line to cause that? Thoughts.

Bread’s Response: Trout looked great early, Hurd is not difficult to outbox but he is difficult to discourage. He’s a dog and he doesn’t stop pressing. He reminds me of a black Antonio Margarito. His prime may be short but he will tough on anyone over the next few fights.

Yes I thought Charlo would be the puncher in this fight.  Lubin has some decent pop but I felt Charlo was the more explosive fighter. No I haven’t seen a fighter turn into a 1 punch ko artist this late in their career. But I have seen fighter’s who didn’t have high ko% be big punchers. And I have seen fighters who weren’t looked at as punchers, be punchers. To be fair to Charlo here are a few examples.

Michael Nunn wasn’t viewed as a puncher but he kod Sambu Kalambay with 1 punch in their unification fight many years ago. It shocked everyone. Pernell Whitaker also scored a 1 punch ko vs Juan Nazzario in their unification fight, many, many years ago. But Whitaker or Nunn didn’t turn into 1 punch ko artist.

David Reid was a big puncher but he didn’t score a lot of kos. Kendall Holt also is a big puncher but he doesn’t have an uncommon high ko%. So those are two examples of guys who fall under Jermell Charlo’s category of being a big puncher without having lots of kos.

The behavior after the fight is very unsportsmanlike in my opinion but at the end of the day it’s boxing. Charlo doesn’t have to show post fight grace if he doesn’t want too. However, I didn’t think Lubin disrespected Charlo. He wanted to fight and he pursued the fight. Every fighter gives a reason why they will win. Those who say that’s running your mouth too much are misguided. A fighter is supposed to sell the fight. Let me ask what fight were we looking forward to the most, Charlo vs Lubin or Lara vs Gausha? Gausha didn’t say a word before the fight and no one cared about that fight.  Charlo vs Lubin was the real main event based on the charisma of both Charlo and Lubin. I still don’t get why people act like Lubin was wrong.

Lubin said he was the better fighter and he would win. Charlo said Lubin didn’t deserve the fight and he would win. To me that’s common banter between fighters. And 99% of the time you shake hands afterwards. Even Mike Tyson and Gerald McCLellan shook hands after fights and they were some nasty dudes.  Hurd told Trout he was going fishing. They even shook hands afterwards.

I’m not going to dwell on the post fight behavior too much but I will say one more thing. If you can’t handle winning, you won’t be able to handle losing.


I have been watching boxing a very long time bro. There is no way that’s not roid rage that both Charlo’s show after fights. Deontay Wilder said in his interview we all know who’s using PEDs. Who do you think he was referring too? Also I don’t understand the difference between the Clean Testing Program and VADA. Why does it have different names?

Bread’s Response: I don’t know who Wilder was talking about but I understand why he didn’t say names. You just can’t say names like that without being sued.

Many fighters are disguising the Clean Testing Program as being signed up for VADA. It’s not the same. Less than 5% of the fighters in the Clean Testing Program have been tested. Being in the program does not insure testing. It just means you’re in the testing pool.

What Deontay Wilder is doing is VADA. What Nonito Donaire did was VADA. What GGG is dojng is VADA. What Andre Ward did was VADA. What Timothy Bradley did was VADA.

They paid for VADA to randomly test them and their opponents. Donaire paid for it yearly so he could be tested randomly all year around.

No one will question accomplishments if you Volunteer for stringent testing.

You said Lubin missed some developmental steps in his quest for the title. Do you think he was overrated, weak chin or bad matchmaking?

Bread’s Response: I think Lubin fought  too many fighters of the same ethnicity with the same style. He wasn’t in live with a guy who had the reaction time to get to him that early. His opponents had good records but they were all the same guys basically.

But let me say this. We don’t know how he would have performed because he got caught cold. That can happen to anyone. He looked fine to me and he was relaxed. He was also “ON”. He was very reactive to Charlo. 1st round kos can be misleading. I still think the kid is a heck of a fighter. Sh*t happens in boxing. No one is exempt.

I don’t think he was overrated. I don’t think the matchmaking was bad but he just could have fought a Terrell Gausha before taking this big step. I don’t know about his chin. Anyone can be clipped. Anyone. Paul Williams had an iron chin and he got clipped early. So did Roberto Duran. So did Emille Griffith. We have to see how he performs from here on out.

I also want to give Charlo’s coach Derrick James some props. I saw him working on the mitts with Charlo and they were punching where they expected Lubin to be. If you notice Lubin bent to that side a few moments earlier. Then Charlo instinctively punched in anticipation where Lubin was bending towards. James should be mentioned as a candidate for Coach of the Year.

Eubank vs Groves. Who wins?

Bread’s Response: Groves is more battle tested being in there with Degale, Froch and Jack. But something tells me Eubank is fresher and operating at a higher level right now. Groves is punching really hard these days so I expect a violent shootout. I expect a fight similar to Benn vs Eubank Sr. But my pick is Eubank. I think he’s the goods. 

I’m born and raised in Orlando so I may have a regional bias but I’m also an educated man. Erickson Lubin was one of the best amateurs of the last 10 years. Not only would he have been an Olympian, he would have been favored to medal. I have seen him in the gym many times. He has never had chin problems with full grown killers. Charlo was a slightly above average amateur who took years to develop. He struggled and barely won many of his fights leading up to this current run. He was also a non puncher who didn’t like to get hit. He was 25-0 with 11kos!!! Now he looks like a mix of Tommy Hearns and Felix Trinidad.  The ironic part is Jermell who is now looked at as the lesser Charlo, was actually brought along faster and considered the more advanced Charlo up until his brother defeated K9 Bundrage.

I’m saying this and I don’t care who likes it. The race line was drawn when Floyd Mayweather said Manny Pacquiao was on PEDS. Now the same people who backed Mayweather with his stance support the Charlo Brothers. Everyone is responsible for this. You know who they are. Charlo was only tested one time a week before the fight! It was a complete set up. I’m in tears as I write this. I was in Brooklyn for the fight week. Hammer was confident and his fans were too. But nothing was done to cause the post fight taunt by the other brother asking him was he ok in a sarcastic way. The other twin was threatening several members of Team Lubin including women. ....

Everyone who is involved with this Charlo uprising is responsible for ruining Lubin’s career. He could have died in that ring. That was not normal and someone in boxing needs to do something about it. The WBC testing is a joke also. I will never support another PBC event again because I can see the whole Pacquiao PED accusations were just convenient. It wasn’t about cleaning up boxing. My rant is done. I don’t expect you to comment but I hope this makes the mailbag. Last question. Can my guy Hammer come back?

Bread’s Response: Sure he can come back. He didn’t take a beating, he took one shot. Fighters have come back from both but in my opinion one shot is easier to come back from. I don’t like how he disconnected but I’m no doctor. He needs some time off and he needs to stay off of social media. He needs his close family and friends even more now. If he’s the fighter he says he is, he will comeback and be better for it.

Terry Norris, Lennox Lewis, Marco Antonio Barrera, Manny Pacquiao and Tommy Hearns came back from multiple brutal knockouts to brutally knock people out and be all time greats. The thing that makes a ko today so bad is these Idiot Know It Alls on social media.

About your PED accusations I will make it plain and simple. The Charlos have a right to get better and improve.  Every fighter who improves during their prime years is not on PEDs. The problem I have with most of today’s top fighters is most are not testing. I can’t understand why a fighter who can choose VADA would not. I can’t understand why more fighters don’t follow Deontay Wilder’s example of being proactive about testing. Wilder has caught 3 cheaters in a short period of time. I can’t understand why an A side would not make his opponent test. There is no honor system in boxing. It’s a seedy kill or be killed sport. Why trust your opponent?

As far as the pre and post fight drama I wasn’t there so I can’t speak on it. But I have heard and seen some crazy stuff at fights in general. I think in todays’ era there is no place for that. Most times both teams are in the same hotel. Eventually someone is going to get shot or seriously hurt. Most of the entourages are not actual boxing people. So there only purpose is to talk sh*t and start fights. The powers that be in boxing need to really take a look at what’s going on. But most likely they won’t until one of the fighters is injured and it causes them to lose money or someone is fatally hurt.

Jarret Hurd is interesting. He doesn’t look special then all of a sudden his opponent’s look fatigued and completely beaten. What is it about him that makes him so effective? How did you think Trout looked and did the layoff hurt him? Who do you think unifies out of Hurd, Lara and Charlo?

Bread’s Response: Austin Trout looked good for the first half of the fight. He was easily outboxing Hurd. What I think happened was Trout was being forced to do too much defensively. He was spinning, turning and dipsy doing. Hurd was just walking and whipping shots. He did the same thing to Tony Harrison. He took over at the same point of both fights. That’s no coincidence. Hurd is far from unbeatable but he’s a dog and he doesn’t discourage easy. I like his character.

I think the layoff did hurt Trout. Trout was sharp offensively but his stamina was not as good as it usually is. Inactivity will do that to you. Trout being off 17 months was serious considering Hurd fought 3 times during that time span.

Right now I would pick Jermell Charlo to unify out of the 3 champions. In his current form I think he punches too hard for the porous defense of Hurd. And I think because of the sparring that him and Lara have done, he would be used to the style. He’s also a lot more intense, stronger and meaner than Lara is at this point.

We are 2 1/2 years into the formation of the PBC.  What is your overall opinion?  I think they tried to be on too many channels which makes it hard to find their content on a regular basis and I don't think the fighters are active enough.  I hope they do a better job promoting and building fighters as well. Deontay Wilder,  Keith Thurman, Danny Garcia and Errol Spence should be household names right now and they are not.  Where do you think the future of the PBC lies?



Bread’s Response: I think the PBC did ok for the fighters financially. As far as developing a sure enough super star there isn’t a superstar in the stable but there are some stars. On the bright side the only superstars currently active in boxing is Saul Alvarez and Anthony Joshua. So..

I agree there were too many channels. For casual uninformed fans it became confusing as to what time and what channel certain fights were coming on.

I think the lack of activity is the reason why they haven’t turned a star into a Super Star. If one of the guys you named were to win 3 big fights in one year, the following year they would be set up for a huge PPV main event….

What's up, Bread -

Just a general observation...the Charlo Brothers sure do have a lot of punching power these days.  It appears that both of them were able to enhance their punching abilities in similar fashion.  They clearly train hard, and are good boxers, but how do you perceive their new found punching ability?



Bread’s Response: I know what you’re getting at. But Fighters have a right to improve. You can’t say a fighter is on something with no proof. I would like to see them and more younger stars initiate more testing and force their opponents to do VADA. No one questioned Nonito Donaire’s power because of his voluntary testing…Until then I guess their power and behavior will be questioned.

Assuming they are clean they are both built how you want your punchers. Long and lean with dense bones and strong legs. That’s exactly how I would want a puncher I was building to be built.


What's up?

Was thinking about Golden Boys gestures to Spence and Garcia.

Offering Spence a fight with Cotto was a good move for Golden Boy.

Oscar needed Spence to whoop Cotto to setup a May 2018 fight between Spence and Canelo, which would be a PPV winner.

Spence would've whooped Cotto, badly, while giving up 20% of his purse to GBP.

The options that GBP wanted from both fighters was the stumbling block to them signing.

Thurman wants to make some money before losing to Spence.

Bread’s Response: I don’t know what the offers were. Those conversations were private. You have to know how this game is. People lie all the time.

I agree that Spence would beat Cotto at this point.

Thurman vs Spence is a 50/50 fight in my opinion. Thurman is not easy to fight. His movement and ability to stop on a dime and throw heat is not easy to deal with. Spence is a horror movie for welterweights because he’s just too big and too strong for them. He fights downhill like a power running back. I think the fight depends on if Thurman gets tired or not. If he does he gets hurt bad. If he doesn’t he can win.

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Tags: boxing image  
User Comments and Feedback (Register For Free To Comment) Comment by FLY TY on 10-21-2017

[QUOTE=Edward90;18147051]I don't like how Jermell is being perceived as the aggressor in all of this. Lubin came out and called him a paper champ before the fight. Lubin did most of the talking before the fight. Similarly to JRock vs.…

Comment by Real King Kong on 10-20-2017

hurd the black margarito:lol1::lol1:

Comment by Ray* on 10-20-2017

[QUOTE=ShoulderRoll;18149309]Back then they were all about "let the commission do their job." :lol1:[/QUOTE] Yeah they are now on the “VADA only” crusade.

Comment by ShoulderRoll on 10-20-2017

[QUOTE=Ray*;18149044]This is just great isn't it? Someone win by KO and now they are on drugs? I dislike this charlo brothers attitude but they have been grafting like forever, I didn't pay much attention to them nor did the organisations,…

Comment by Oluminati on 10-20-2017

[QUOTE=Sledgeweather17;18147151]I disagree with breadman about the VADA/Clean testing thing. [B]He seems to make it if Vada is more efficient in catching people as opposed to the clean testing program.[/B] But doesn't it make it infinitely harder to cycle peds when…

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