By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling numerous topics such as Mikey Garcia vs. Errol Spence, Oleksandr Usyk vs. Evander Holyfield, Danny Garcia vs. Shawn Porter, Mikey Garcia vs. Vasyl Lomachenko, and more.
I was just thinking examples of fighters jumping up two weight classes or going up quite a bit weight to fight an elite bigger man, and the ones that are successful have the clear explosiveness/speed advantage. Basically they are more dynamic than the bigger man, and that allows them to get through the size disadvantage. Now that takes me to Garcia/Spence. I know you say Spence is not invisible and that is true, but would you say Garcia has the speed or quickness advantage? I'm not sure and Spence is technical enough to match him on the outside. It is a tough ask for Garcia as he won't have any advantage. I mean you could say he is a better counter puncher, but Spence may not give him too many opportunities. This could end up being a Mayweather/JMM replay in the smaller guy is not quicker/faster and is the one getting countered. Look at Rigo/Lomachenko. Rigo wasn't able to use his quickness advantage as it was negated with Lomachenko's own athleticism and jab. Same will happen here.
Bread’s Response: I don’t think Garcia is at a big disadvantage as far as speed or quickness. Errol is not slow but he’s not a speedster. Quickness is how fast the mind processes and it’s harder to determine that unless you see both guys in the ring squaring up. The problem that Mikey has in this fight is Spence’s physicality and relentlessness.
Spence is just always beating you up. There is no let up in him. I also ponder if Garcia is durable enough to take that type of pounding. Look at Mikey close, he has suffered TRAUMA to his nose in the past. It’s a little disfigured and it bleeds often. Small things like that can lead to big things.
Mikey is a skilled dude and when you are that skilled and that confident you can compete. I think this is a 70/30 fight in Spence’s favor. But there have been cases where a smaller great champion challenged a bigger one and the smaller guy more than held his own. Sometimes they won. Sometimes they lost but here are cases where they did well and where the smaller guy wasn’t always the more dynamic fighter. Conn vs Louis, Starling vs Nunn, Duran vs Hagler, Griffith vs Monzon…….
Skills and IQ are something to behold, especially when a great fighter is in his zone. Mikey is in his zone. I favor Spence but he still has to win this fight in the RING and not on paper. If they were both natural welterweights, this would be even money because the skills are similar. I say it’s intriguing.
I like your article. I am from Namibia, Africa.
Your don’t seems to talk much about Mayweather. How high is he on your all time list?
What is your take on Usyk vs Dmitry Bivol?
Bread’s Response: How are you? Your country produced a terrific fighter in Harry Simon.
I can only answer what you guys send me. Floyd Mayweather is top 25 all time, top 3 at 130lbs, top 15 at 147 and top 5 defensive fighters ever.
I need to see more of Bivol. He looks too small to face Usyk from my eye ball test.
What's up Bread?
I often wonder what would have happened if certain matchups took place at different times so i have a few "what if" scenarios:
1. What if Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier had fought before Ali's exile (let's say 1967). You have said that Ali's absolute peak was 1964-1967 while Frazier's was 1967-1971 so what happens if they fight in '67
2. What if George Foreman and Larry Holmes fought in 1991-92? (Let's say the Holmes that upset Ray Mercer vs the Foreman that faced Holyfield)
3. What if Oscar De La Hoya faced Miguel Cotto in 2006? (I know Cotto was just getting to 147 but what if he had gone to 154 to face the Oscar that destroyed Ricardo Mayorga)
Bread’s Response: 1. I think Frazier would have always troubled Ali but I think Ali would’ve beaten him in a terrific fight. Ali took Fraizer’s prime in the 1st fight. Joe Frazier never had the same pep in his step after that 1st battle. It could be the best WIN in the history of boxing. But if they met 4 years earlier Ali would have won a tough decision.
2. I rate Foreman over Holmes but I think Holmes would have won in 91-92. Foreman needed you to be compliant at that time and Holmes wouldn’t have been. Holmes by decision.
3. Tough question. I say Oscar is better but by 2006 Oscar was a part time fighter and Cotto was hitting his peak. So Cotto by a close decision in a great fight.
What’s good brotha Bread! When I look at Spence (who I am a big fan of) he doesn’t look special. I think that is because although he beats up his opponents the opponent always seem like they are in the fight, if that makes sense. It’s never really a runaway. Like Ocampo, he didn’t seem like he was over his head until the stoppage. Whereas you have guys like Crawford and Lomo who up to this point have sort of outclassed most of their opponents which make them look special.
I bring up Spence because Mikey seems to keep going on record saying how he wants Spence next. It’s strange because you have guys like Garcia and Porter who have good names and have been around a little longer but he is silent on those guys. I know Mikey says that he wants to challenge himself and build his legacy and I don’t doubt that but I think he has looked at Spence and he say’s to himself “Spence is nothing special” which is a BIG MISTAKE.
Mikey is like the silent assassin. He comes across like a choir boy but he is a real badass. He is a lot cockier than he shows. I can tell. I’m betting behind the scene he can be a real asshole at times. Which I guess we all can.
Mikey could have easily called out Porter and with a win his legacy grows but he didn’t. Why, because Porter is a big strong bull who is relentless and just keep coming and coming. He would be on Mikey all 12 rounds and Mikey already understands that he is giving up the weight advantage and if he can’t manage to hurt Porter then he would be in for a long night and it would be rough and tough all 12 rounds. Why not call out DG? In my opinion Mikey sees a guy that looks like a better boxer than Spence, has great timing, and can punch. I think Mikey picked a guy that He THINKS he will have an easier time beating.
I know is sounds crazy but think Mikey feels he can go in and box Spence for a victory but I don’t think he looks at the little things that Spence does that will probably get him hurt. Spence cuts the ring really well, he also applies a great deal of pressure not like Porter where he is on top of you all 12 rounds but he is constantly in punching range and he punches really hard. I can only see this fight playing out one of two ways. Spence with a late round stoppage or Mikey by decision but he won’t look like he won. He will take so much damage that the fight wouldn’t have been worth it. Please tell me how you see this fight.
Bread’s Response: Good comment. Spence doesn’t seem to outclass his opponents because that’s not his style. Spence is a killer. He’s a hard nosed, pressure technician with heavy hands. He’s an offensive fighter. So his results look like domination or destruction and not so much an outclassing. Crawford and Loma are classic boxers. So they outclass.
Felix Trinidad was a destroyer like Spence. So his fights didn’t look like he was outclassing his opponents. But Pernell Whitaker was a gifted defensive wizard. So his results looked like outclassing. Feel me?
I don’t think Mikey views Danny Garcia or Shawn Porter as being better than Spence. I think he feels Spence is the best fighter available to him. I think he just views Spence is a really talented guy but one with flaws. For whatever reason Spence’s eyes take a little time to warm up in fights and you can hit him early with good shots. It happens often so I know it’s not a coincidence. Mikey is a smart and detailed guy and I think he sees that. I think Mikey can and will hold his own in the 1st half of the fight. His problem will be once Errol starts rolling and digging those nasty body punches in. I think Mikey has a hard time once Spence starts fighting downhill from rounds 7-12. Spence’s relentlessness is a sight to behold. I think Spence takes the fight in the 2nd half.
We are in an era where the majority of the champions try to maximize their earnings by taking the least amount risk as possible. Garcia is trying to maximize his earnings by taking the biggest risk possible. I see nothing wrong with it. I applaud him. Whatever reason he has, is his reason. Maybe he just thinks that highly of himself and it has nothing to do with how he looks at Spence……
Hi Mr. Edwards,
I want to thank you for giving boxing fans the opportunity to hear
from someone with such deep knowledge of the sport. I have a few
questions I would like to hear your opinion on. Firstly, based on
anything you have read about Luther McCarthy, knowing how impossible
it is to truly know his abilities without footage, do you think he
could have competed with Jack Johnson and other elite fighters of the
era? He fought to a draw against Jess Willard while only twenty,
though Willard had not yet come into form. Secondly, how do you rate
Jersey Joe Walcott historically? How could he compete if he fought in
other eras? Do you believe Ezzard Charles was the greater boxer given
he won their first two matches and most believed he won the fourth.
Thirdly, which historical boxers (pre 1960) could compete in modern
eras in their respective weight classes with the most success? Lastly,
if you would, which young boxers did you think had the most potential
when seeing them. Which of the boxers you trained as well? Let me know
and thanks again for answering many questions week after week.
Bread’s Response: I’m not well versed on Luther McCarthy. I don’t want to front and talk about a fighter I don’t know.
I think Jersey Joe Walcott is a great fighter but he was hot and cold. However in his era it’s hard to have a great record because the matchmaking is so tough. You also have to realize there was no youtube or boxrec. So to get to 20-0 is not easy.
If Walcott fought today he would be a light heavyweight and he would be murder on these fighters today. Most likely he would be the best lightheavyweight in the world today.
Yes I rate Charles over Walcott. Ezzard Charles had a better record, higher peak in his prime and he was more consistent. Charles has a real case for top 10 ever.
There are plenty of boxers pre 1960 that could compete today. Bro this isn’t football. The fighter’s skill sets were better back then. I could literally name 100. Ray Robinson was a 5’11 monster who turned pro at lightweight. With a 2nd day weigh in he could’ve been a 130 pounder today and started moving up. Seriously there are too many fighters to name. The 1940s is the best decade ever as far as showcasing prime greats. Robinson, Louis, Pep, Saddler, Ike Williams, Charles, Moore, Conn, Lamotta, Cerdan. I mean seriously that’s just one decade and I left out some guys. After the 1920s the current style we see today was being used and boxing didn’t evolve much as far as technique. I think you picked too late of a time. By the 1960’s modern technique was thriving.
Young boxers are hard to assess. When I first saw Marco Antonio Barrera he fought a fighter by the name of Eddie Cook. I said to my grand pop wow that kid is going to be something. I also saw a young Mike Tyson and I knew he was different. But it’s tough because I thought Francisco Bojado was going to be special and I was super wrong. There have been plenty of guys I saw at the early stages who wowed me. Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones and Miguel Cotto to name a few.
I think Errol Spence is in a no win situation. If he kos Mikey then he was supposed too. If he struggles then he’s not that good anyway. If I were him I wouldn’t take the fight. I also don’t know why Mikey is so eager to jump in with Errol. Who do you think he matches up better against? I understand that he only wants Super Fights but this seems a bit much. How many PPV buys do you think it does?
Bread’s Response: Listen man there have been plenty of big fights where one fighter was smaller than the other. Hearns vs Duran, Hagler vs Duran, Hopkins vs De La Hoya, Hopkins vs Trinidad, Pryor vs Arguello, Louis vs Conn, Holmes vs Spinks……It’s boxing. Every match up won’t be the same exact height, weight and reach.
Spence is not picking on Garcia. Garcia called him out and Spence has accepted. No other welterweights are calling Spence out, so he may as well take on a top P4P fighter who wants to fight him. I’m in the gym all the time and I see lightweights getting the better of welterweights and welterweights getting the better of middleweights. It’s actually more common for the smaller guy to get over because in the gym you don’t spar as many rounds as a fight and the smaller more fluid guy usually gets over.
I don’t give Rigondeaux a pass for losing to Loma. He called Loma out and wanted the work. Then he quit. I can’t give him a pass for that and Loma deserves props for dominating an all time great talent like Rigo. If Spence dominates Mikey he deserves props. Everytime a bigger guy wins these types of fights it doesn’t mean size is the #1 factor. Loma beat Rigo with skill also. If Spence puts on a similar show then he deserves praise. I’m not going to set the kid up for a no win fight, when Mikey came looking for him.
This will be Spence’s biggest career payday. What if Hagler didn’t take the Duran fight? Come on man that’s scary talk. Real fighters, fight. They don’t overthink.
As for Mikey maybe he sees something. Who knows? Maybe he just wants to test himself. I personally don’t care why.
As for better match ups for Mikey I agree with you on that. I think Mikey is 50/50 with Loma in the biggest lightweight showdown since Duran vs DeJesus III. Loma vs Mikey has a case for being the best lightweight match up in history and Mikey can win that fight. I also think Mikey matches up better with Manny Pacquiao and Danny Garcia at 147. But hey Mikey wants what he wants and I think you guys should leave him alone and stop trying to talk him out of it. What if he wins?
I think the fight can do 300k PPV buys. I think Mayweather and Pacquiao spoiled the critics because in their primes they did 7 figure PPV fights on the regular. Everyone forgot that they didn’t do 7 figures in their 1st PPVs. I think 300k buys is reasonable and it can be done. 300k buys at $60, generates 18 million dollars. That’s not including the sponsors and paid attendance at whatever arena they hold the fight at. I think 300k gets everyone satisfied with their pay. Neither Garcia or Spence has a signed promoter so that won’t be a big expense….
It’s possible to satisfy everyone and for the media who thinks they know everything. A PPV that does not do 1 million buys can be very profitable as long as the guarantees or expectations are not extreme. The glass is half full is the way winners look at things.
Who do you have winning Berto vs Alexander? I pretty much think they are the same guy more or less. Do you dismiss Berto’s loss to Porter because of the head butts? Who do you think has had the better career and where does the winner go?
Bread’s Response: Um…..this is a close fight. I wouldn’t be surprised by a DRAW to be honest. Berto has better punch delivery and he hits harder. But Alexander uses a jab more, he’s physically stronger and he’s shown that he’s more durable. Neither guy is a lights out boxer that you can’t touch, so they don’t run away with 6 or 7 rounds in a row. Berto may have an advantage because Virgil Hunter his trainer went up against Alexander a few years ago with Amir Khan and they really had him figured out but Berto and Khan are different. This is a really close fight in my opinion.
I will say I disagree about them being the same guy. Alexander has not had the same matchmaking Berto has had. Alexander has faced killers throughout his career every since his early 20s. Coming through the ranks he fought Demarcus Corley. Ask Floyd Mayweather, Zab Judah and Miguel Cotto how dangerous and tricky Corley can be. Alexander then fought Junior Witter for his title at 140. Witter is very underrated and was just the kind of guy that Berto never had to face. At 140 Alexander also faced Kotelnik a (silver medalist), Bradley (HOF) and a prime Lucas Matthysse. Alexander also fought two unification fights at 140. He had no showcase title fights.
Then at 147 he fought a prime Marcos Maidana, a dangerous Randall Bailey, and a prime Amir Khan and Shawn Porter. Devon Alexander only has about 30 career fights and they made that kid rumble. He has 4 losses and I’m not claiming he’s a HOF because he’s not, but his resume is one to be respected. For whatever reasons I don’t know, but Andre Berto never had to fight those types of fights. So while Berto may have an advantage because his coach went up against Alexander before, Alexander may have an advantage because he’s use to being under the gun much more in his career. Berto has been in some wars in tough fights, but they were surprise wars in fights where he was the big favorite. Like Victor Ortiz, Robert Guerrero and Jesus Soto Karass. Before the fights people expected Berto to handle them. It’s a little different as to how Devon has been matched in his career.
No I don’t dismiss the Porter fight for Berto. I don’t dismiss Berto’s great 1 punch ko of Freddy Hernandez. So why should I dismiss a tough loss? Boxing doesn’t work that way. When an old great fighter loses late in his career like say Ali to Trevor Berbick you can dismiss it. But you have to attain a certain level of greatness 1st and you have to be old and done. Berto is not that old by today’s standards. I think he has ability still, Porter was just too rough and relentless and that’s style that Berto has had trouble with in the past.
I think Alexander has had the slightly better career as far as boxing accomplishments and regard. He fought tougher fighters for his belts and he unified partially at 140. Berto has made much more money and that does count. So that may be a push.
The winner is in a good position to make some money solid money vs a BIG name. The loser is in a tough spot.
Danny Garcia is bigger than he seems. He seems like a small guy but during his staredowns, that perception is not true. What do you think of DSG vs Porter and how does the father-son dynamic play out?
Bread’s Response: I think Danny Garcia vs Shawn Porter has a chance to be Fight of the Year. I think this will be a terrific fight. You never know how styles mesh but I have a hunch they mesh big time in this fight.
I will reserve my pick because I think it’s close. Neither guy has been dominant at the top level as far as lights out performances. So I expect a nail biter going down the stretch. Both have solid chins so there is a great chance that this is a distance fights. If there is a ko I think Danny has a better chance to score one. Because of his pin point counter punching and Porter does rush in. So Porter’s momentum can possibly accentuate the power of Danny’s shots. On the other hand Porter is viewed as a brawler but he has a chance to outbox Danny because he has a distinct foot speed advantage and he uses the whole ring more. I’m telling you guys I can see these guys reverse rolls and put on a tremendous fight. I can’t wait for this one.
I don’t know how the father-son dynamic plays out. I just hope that the focus stays on the two kids. Sometimes the boxing media slants the views and turn things into soap operas. Both fathers have jobs to do as coaches and they have obviously done good jobs because both Danny and Shawn are in this important position.
Props to Mikey Garcia and Robert Easter for a good fight. Easter did a great job of following the game plan and not slugging it out in the pocket. The two things I think he could work on subsequently is punch variety and snapping the right hand versus pushing it. At this age and career stage would you try to improve his technique in his right hand. How hard is it to improve a world class boxers technique and at this point is it the muscle memory or actually convincing a fighter to trust you and believe he needs to change? I also know you hoop and I think of it like Embiid and Jayson Tatum improving their jump shot with a shooting coach. This tells me accomplished trained athletes can get better results with improved technique. Does this translate similarly in boxing? What did you see with Easter’s right hand and how much is the ability to shoot it whip it or snap it with power affected by the wide stance and the range that he was firing it from. This is not an attempt to dissect and nitpick because I liked his Length, sharp jab, crisp powerful hook, heart, durability, beard, and most importantly character in all post fight interviews. It’s more so seeing what allows him to go to greater success at 135 and up in the future.
Bread’s Response: I don't want to over nitpick or bother Robert Easter. I really like him. Robert Easter can fight. He’s not far off. I don’t know if he will ever get there because at the top level it’s a game of inches and half seconds. Mikey’s mind is just more acute than Robert’s. That’s the difference. The reason why Garcia can out jab Easter is because during an exchange at some point in Mikey’s career he out jabbed a taller fighter. His mind is so advanced that he can repeat that action over and over again. One may think it’s all about height and reach but it’s not. It’s about processing WHEN to jab. Timing. Mind ability allows you to repeat positive interactions over and over. Mikey doesn’t do anything fancy he just understands how to repeat his successful exchanges over and over.
Mikey’s right hand is better than Robert’s because Mikey didn’t pick up on a bad habit. He throws it correctly and he doesn’t try to over think the shot. He steps perfectly and he hits you with the shot. He sees it and he lets it go. Robert probably read the internet and everyone’s opinion on how he should fight and although he’s faster than Mikey, he was a step behind after round 4.
Considering all that Easter went through he didn’t do bad. One would be surprised at what one small adjustment mentally will do. It can make a 7-5 or 8-4 fight go in the other direction. Mikey Garcia is a GREAT fighter. Robert Easter is a good fighter and excellent talent. I actually feel bad for Easter because although it may seem like Garcia is a lot better than him, he’s really not. Mikey is just more sure of himself and he moves with more purpose.
Robert can turn over a good right hand. Robert has a variation on his right hands. Sometimes he turns it over like the one he threw vs Argeniz Mendez. And sometimes he throws a quick flick scoring right hand. Sort of like Adrien Broner and his other gym mates. It’s nothing wrong with either shot depending on the circumstances but there is something wrong when you throw the wrong right hand at the wrong moment. Great fighters do the right things at the right times.
Robert Easter did do his best to follow the game plan. I commend him for listening to his corner. But if Robert is going to advance and be a great fighter which he can be, his mind has to be more fluid. Because a fight is fluid. Robert actually had some success moving towards Mikey and he landed some nice left hooks. He didn’t commit to that attack because everything the media and critics kept saying was distance, distance, distance. A guy like Andre Ward or Terence Crawford would have felt the success in close and rolled with the press game for a few rounds until Mikey made adjustments.
I really hope Easter fine tunes some small things because the kid can be a really, really good.
Mikey Garcia is a #HumbleGangster. No smack talk no hype men no posturing he’s just a valiant dude that handles biz in a calm cool fashion. I sincerely think he wants to fight Errol Spence but here is my application of a Breadman Edwards theory on why he won’t win. “Errol Spence trains at the tempo he fights and To beat Errol Spence you have to break that rhythm”. Mikey is like Floyd in that he likes to start slow figure things out with his high boxing IQ and then go to work. In fact he only threw 27 punches per round in the first three rounds against Easter and then ramped up to average 52 punches a round. I believe that Errol Spence is going to go out at his normal high tempo rhythm and carry Mikey faster than he has ever wanted to or ever wants to be carried and by the time Mikey starts leaning into his bigger right hand and left hook shots Spence will already be cooking and have put three rounds of his own hard punches in that will start to soak in. To beat mikey and Floyd you can’t let them get settled and slow the fight down, Errol’s tempo and power and in your face pressure will be problematic for a natural 130 pounder. What do you think? You know you are dropping knowledge when your readers begin to (rightly or Wrongly) apply your wisdom.
Bread’s Response: Interesting theory. And you make some great points on Errol Spence. If you watch him do pad work it’s like watching him fight. It’s going to take a great game plan and special fighter to fatigue Spence because of this. And once Spence starts to cook, he’s like Earl Campbell running down hill.
I haven’t seen Mikey come close to losing as far as points although I think he was in more distress vs Salido than admitted. Salido started cooking late and started to make Mikey uncomfortable but I have to assume that Mikey is better now. A fighter with his IQ has to be better at this point. I think we are underestimating Mikey’s IQ. I think he knows he can’t start as slow as usual vs Spence because he won’t be the most physical fighter in the ring. Mikey is usually the stronger man and bigger puncher on top of being more skilled. In the Spence match up all of the things will be challenged.
I think this match up is more competitive than most think. I pick Errol to win by late stoppage but I think Mikey wins half of the rounds scored and holds his own. Mikey is just as skilled if not more so than Kell Brook. He’s also a fighter I consider to be great. Great fighters in their prime run, don’t usually get outclassed. They may get clipped but not outclassed. I don’t expect Mikey to be outclassed by any stretch.
Great read as always.
Just wanted your insight on something I was reading regards potential Ward-Usyk fight. It was mentioned that no fighter has ever won supermiddle, lightheavy, cruiser and heavyweight belts. RJJ was closest missing cruiser and James Toney won super, cruiser and heavy (changed to NC) and it got me thinking do you think it would benefit a boxer whose ultimate goal was heavyweight to move through the weights allowing their body to adjust progressively or does it not really make any difference? I’m a massive fan of RJJ and it’s no secret he was never the same after the move down from heavyweight. I fully appreciate boxers have to take the opportunities as they arise and he had the perfect one in Ruiz at heavyweight I just wonder if a move up and down thru cruiser might have not put so much strain on his body? I know the cruiser division back then was not particularly deep and this probably had a bearing on his decision together with pressure for a Tarver rematch.
Also your thoughts on Riddick Bowe? Hall of fame or ‘what if’ talent? I know he won the HW title a couple of times but I veer nearer ‘what if’ talent as he had all the attributes to rule. I think he also had doubts in his head that he could ever beat Lewis which maybe affected his psychology for how good he thought he could be. I certainly would bet on a peak Bowe over most heavyweights for last 15 years.
Mythical matchups -
Usk v Holyfield (cruiser)
Mikey Garcia v Floyd Mayweather (135)
Riddick Bowe v Wilder
Kovalev v Virgil Hill
As always thanks for the insight.
St Helena Island
Bread’s Response: Usyk vs Holyfield is a tough fight. Usyk has that scoring non committal style that would have bothered Holy. I know Holy was old when he fought Chris Byrd but that touch and go style drove him nuts. I say Holyfield by split decision because I have seen Usyk struggle with multiple punch attacks and I do believe Holyfield was the stronger man by the time he hit his stride in 1988. Holyfield is life and death with any man who ever lived circa 200lbs in his 1988 version. He was a machine and it showed in his evolvement from the 1st to the 2nd Qawi fights.
Mikey Garcia vs Floyd Mayweather is another tough fight to call because Mikey is in the middle of his prime and we are still judging him. Right now I say Floyd but what if Mikey beats Terence Crawford and Errol Spence. Do you know where his ranking goes after that? Geez. I will say this Mikey Garcia is one of the few elite Mexican fighters that openly goes after black fighters. People don’t like to talk about race in boxing but let me tell you something, off the record it’s a real discussion. Mikey is breaking down some stereotypes. Lots of matchmakers keep their Mexican blue chip fighters away from black fighters. But Mikey Garcia is calling out and going after black fighters and that tells me something. What it tells me is he has elite boxing ability, he doesn’t fear speed and he has no problem with the urban rhythm. Garcia can fight his ass off but I can’t pick him over Floyd at this point. I know too much about Floyd and Floyd has an equal mind to Mikey and he’s a better, faster, longer athlete.
Bowe vs Wilder is a bad match up for Wilder. Bowe in his prime is too forceful and accomplished mid range and inside fighter. I respect Wilder’s improvement as much as any fighter today but I just think Bowe is bad style for him. Bowe would power jab Wilder, and take him to the ropes. And at that point he would really take him apart on the inside. Bowe has special instincts in close, with his rolling and catching. Wilder needs more distance to operate. Bowe is also physically stronger and he can match Wilder’s good heavyweight stamina. Wilder makes every fight interesting with his right hand but I don’t see him beating Big Daddy Bowe.
Kovalev vs Hill would be a great jab off. I would take Kovalev at his peak because he can do more off of his jab. But Hill would be with him. Say Kovalev by close but clear decision. It would look like Hearns vs Hill.
Bowe is both. A HOF and a what if. But sometimes a fighter is what he is. Bowe was only active for about 8 years straight and he had a bunch of fights by today’s standards. Bowe had about 40 fights in less than 8 years to exact and that’s some serious fighting. Maybe his handlers knew he would burn out so they matched him so often. Who knows? A wise man boxing once told me, “he is what he is.” That may apply to Bowe, where he just would have never had a long peak.
I think if Roy Jones would have retired after the Ruiz victory he’s no worse than #2 all time. But everyone forgets he won the 1st Tarver fight. So if his chin was so ruined by the weight cut, how did he stay on his feet for 12 rounds against Tarver? I can’t explain it myself but I always correct people who make it out like Jones lost a bunch of weight and got kod. No it didn’t happen like that. He lost the weight, he struggled to a close a decision but he was the fresher man late in the fight and he outhustled Tarver. Then in the rematch where his body looked great and he came out looking sharp he got clipped. But here is the weird thing. Jones had some solid performances after being clipped by Tarver. He fought Tarver well in the rubber match and didn’t get stopped. He beat the crap out of Omar Shieka and Jeff Lacy. He even fought Felix Trinidad at a catchweight of 170, took some big left hooks fine and won. So if 175 drained him, I suppose 169 should have too.
So I just don’t know how to view what happened to the GREAT Roy Jones. Some people come up with their own theories but they leave out some important facts. Jones wasn’t completely shot after that Tarver KO. And I don’t know if it was all a weight issue because he took Tarver’s punches fine in the 1st fight. The one thing I don’t 2nd guess is Roy had a bizarre habit all through his prime where he would back to the ropes with his hands up and shoot counter shots underneath. I think THIS defense cost him once he got older. All of his ko losses came up against the ropes or close to them with his hands up which is not an opinion, it’s a fact. You usually see fighters get kod with their hands down but Roy’s hands were up vs Tarver2, Johnson, Green, Lebedev and Maccarinelli. It’s not out of the question that Tarver ruined Jones’s chin in that 2nd fight and started the bad string and it wasn’t all the weight. We will never know for sure.
And because of this I think Roy Jones is one of the few all time greats who’s past their prime losses get held against him because no one really knows what the hell happened.
To answer you specially. I think HOW you put the weight on is important as to whether you can move back down or how fast you jump up. Emanuel Steward said he just fed Tommy Hearns later in the evening when he 1st moved up to 175 vs Dennis Andries. Hearns all the way back to 160 and didn’t go back to 175 until about 3 years later. So it depends. Some guys just don’t cut weight which is usually water weight. Let’s remember Mikey Garcia just moved down from 140 and no one talks about it because he has an old school body where as he just stopped at 140 when he fought their instead balking up and putting on non functional muscle. It depends on the fighter and what they do to gain or lose the weight.
Firstly, Mikey Garcia. Where does he fall in your p4p top 10? For me he cannot be below fourth right now (GGG, Crawford, Lomachenko)...but if this guy goes to WW and beats the terminator that is Errol Spence Jr, number 1 100% right? And also, as good a win as Floyd has ever had at WW too, agree? Finally, WHY is he chasing Spence? I mean, I don't think Spence has a bigger profile than Crawford or Lomachenko, so it can't mean much more money (if anything, i'd assume less!) and I honestly feel he would get just as much kudos beating Lomachenko or Crawford too, given they are p4p 1a 1b. So surely Mikey has spotted something in Spence's game that he can exploit. I tuned in to a live q&a with Garcia once on Twitter and he seems very smart and knowledgable on the game, which you'd only expect with his camp and family. What has he spotted? Why is he chasing this?
Also, you predicted Whyte to lose (you got one wrong! You're human!) vs Parker. He is getting better every fight and with only 31 fights combined in a boxing ring (including his amateur career, which he had to cut short because he had pro kickboxing fights as a teenager). Were you impressed with him? Did you see the FOTY candidate in Chisora vs Takam?
Lastly, how do you see things working out in the heavyweight scene? What I mean by that is, what route could someone like Whyte take to the title and how soon do you think any of wilder/joshua/fury will fight? Are there any young prospects you think could spoil all their plans?
Bread’s Response: My top P4P is as follows.
1a. Crawford 1b. Lomachenko 2a. Garcia 2b.Usyk 2c. Inoue 3. Spence 4. GGG 5. SSR
In my opinion Crawford and Lomachenko have separated themselves from everyone else with all things factored in. Eye ball test, accomplishments, comp faced and missed. Garcia, Inoue and Usyk are also even in that category without either separating themselves from one another. I give Spence the nod over GGG because of the eye ball test not anything else. I think Spence is in his prime and GGG is slightly past his. I give GGG the nod over SSR in the eye ball test, GGG is more polished but SSR’s two best wins are as good as anyone’s as far as accomplishments.
After that there are about 6 or 7 fighters that can fill in the last 2 spots. Estrada, Santa Cruz, Wilder, Joshua, Nietes, Kovalev, Ja Charlo, Canelo…..but none of made a firm claim like the Great 8 I named.
Yes I did predict Dillian Whyte to lose to Joseph Parker. I’m really disappointed with Joseph Parker. He’s a clear example of a fighter who is stale. When a fighter gets stale I look at his mental makeup. It’s usually because of something mental that the fighter is not putting together. I noticed it when Parker fought Andy Ruiz. He’s had confidence issues and he became tepid every since that fight. With Parker’s skill and athleticism he shouldn’t be losing to Dillian Whyte.
But I have to give Whyte full credit. His will overcomes skill. He’s mean, he’s nasty and he’s confident. And he’s a real fighter and he doesn’t overthink so it’s allowing him to make a good career for himself. I think Whyte will get a title shot within the next year because he’s high ranked. I also think his handlers have to be careful because his chin is vulnerable and once he cools off I can see him losing by ko a few times. Maybe Deontay Wilder will fight Fury then Whyte then Joshua to up his UK profile before the Joshua super fight. How does that sound?
I don’t know if Whyte can be champion as long as Wilder and Joshua are the champions. They are just too good and a class above. But Whyte is a strong willed guy, who knows he may upset someone but I don’t think he can beat those two studs.
Hi Breadman - I've noticed that Derek Chisora, who I think is somewhere around 6' 1", is never visibly dwarfed by much taller opponents and fights well against taller guys (vs. Helenius particularly). Other fighters of similar height seem to be smaller in the ring vs exceptionally tall fighters. What do you attribute this to and do you see the same thing? Is he just naturally huge?
Bread’s Response: I’ve noticed it too. Physicality, bone density and muscle make up are important when factoring size. Most people just assume height and reach to be the keys. If that was the case then Tommy Hearns could fight Joe Louis because of similar height and reach and we know he couldn’t have.
Chisora is a big dude he’s just not as tall as his opponents. There are fighters who are just BIG and it’s not all height and weight. George Foreman’s prime weight was 217 and he was about 6’3 or 6’4 but he looked 25lbs bigger than Joe Frazier.
Larry Holmes is another fighter who never seemed to be dwarfed at a perceived size disadvantage.
Ike Quartey wasn’t the tallest welter of his era but he seemed like the biggest. Quartey fought big.
Errol Spence is only 5’9 we have seen plenty of taller welters. But he seems huge.
I noticed a big size difference in Kovalev and Ward although they were listed as same weight and same height. Physical make up is something else. Glad you noticed that about Chisora.
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