By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards answering questions on Peter Quillin's knockout loss to Daniel Jacobs, Tyson Fury knocking off Wladimir Klitschko, James DeGale's win over Lucian Bute, Anthony Joshua vs. Dillian Whyte, WBC heavyweight champion Deontay Wilder, and more.
What's good Breadman. I've been following boxing for a while and it seems that a lot of old heads have the new jacks in boxing thinking that big fights not happening started with this generation of fighters and it didn't. I say the social media has shined a great light on what is going on in boxing today. It seems to me that fighters back in the day could make "business decisions" while today its ducking. For example, in 1984, Duran was stripped of his WBA belt at 54 for taking a bigger payday(1.5 million)/fight with Thomas Hearns rather than fight his mandatory in Mike McCallum. That wasn't precieved as ducking. Cotto allowed himself to be stripped of his title rather face his mandatory in Gennady Golovkin in order to take a bigger payday fight with Saul Alvarez. What is the difference? Nothing to me. Larry Holmes left money on the table (2.25 million) and by passed Greg Page and fought Marvis Frazier for 3 million. Business decision.
Floyd Mayweather didn't fight Antonio Margarito for 8 million, but decided to position himself for Oscar by fighting WBC Champ at that time Carlo Baldomir for 8 million and one dollar. I actually know that story. Floyd asked Arum for a 10 million dollar guarantee to fight Hatton and Cotto and Arum was only willing to give him 7 for both fights. And Floyd also asked for 20 million to fight Oscar and Arum said that money wasn't there. But people say Floyd ducked Margarito. I say that back in he day, fighters were able to maneuver easier because there was no Twitter, Facebook, emails or internet. So if something didn't happen, it just didn't happen. And by the time it went public, it was a non story. What do u think?
Holla back.....Big Moe
Bread’s Response: Thanks for writing in my good brother but I think you’re wrong. Very wrong…. Anyone can go back and find two relevant fighters of the same time span who didn’t fight and claim that the fight should have been made.
There is a huge difference in what Roberto Duran did and what’s going on with Cotto. First off if I’m not mistaken there was a discrepancy in the payment of sanctioning fees with Cotto. In Duran’s case he went after a better and more heralded fighter at the time. You can’t tell in 1984 that Mike McCallum who was the #1 contender was considered a better or a bigger star than Thomas Hearns. So in reality Duran took on a bigger threat in Hearns, who was also a bigger star. And before Duran fought Hearns he fought Marvin Hagler at 160. Are we really going to compare? Come on bro. I love Miguel Cotto and I don’t disrespect fighters. Miguel Cotto deserves all the credit in the world. But I will leave this as this. Roberto Duran would fight GGG. I don’t believe Miguel Cotto ever had any intent of fighting him regardless if he defeated Canelo or not.
Larry Holmes didn’t leave money on the table. What are you talking about? He made more money to fight Marvis Frazier. Greg Page was a solid fighter but he had just lost to Trevor Berbick the year before. So Holmes fought Frazier in a non title fight, vacated the WBC title and became the IBF champion afterwards. You have to know the history of the sport before spouting off things like that. I’m not saying Page wouldn’t have been a tough fight for Holmes but I think you are overstating things a bit.
Again you’re bringing up points that are apples and oranges with your prior to examples. The Mayweather vs Margarito example is a little better but not much. Floyd went after the lineal title that Baldomir had and no historian will have a problem with that. But I think we all can agree that Margarito was the better and more marketable fighter. So that’s sort of a wash in my book.
I agree that social media sensationalizes and accentuates things these days. I hate the fact that some of these trolls have access to disrespect some of these great athletes. But this is the only era in boxing history where a champion will fight show case fights for 3 and 4 straight years without taking a fight where he has more than a 30% chance of losing. Never ever before has this happened in the history of the sport. Think about that.
I will repeat it in a different way. This era allows a top fighter/champion to fight 70/30 or showcase fights for 3 and 4 year intervals without taking a 50/50 fight or at least fighting the best available guy whoever that may be. Name a time before,say 2000 where you have seen such a trend. I can’t think of one. Social media just enhances the truth.
I would like to hear your long winded version of punchers. Type and classification?
Would like to hear a breakdown of DeGale performance, what he did well and not well?
I think when you get inside with DeGale he chops you up in his two handed blender, his angles are amazing, lands so many flush shots head and body cause of them angles. Has really good defense with his bending at the waist, head movement and legs but he doesn't transition well from attack to defense or defense to attack allowing the other guy to work, even doe he doesn't ship any punishment. What could he do to fix that?
I had Fury beating Wlad cause of his jab that is really hard to read and Wlad has to touch you with his jab to be able to throw his right. This is the first time that made me believe that Myth that Willy Pep did win a round with out punching on "ring generalship" cause the early rounds Fury fainted Wlad to death.
Can you think of any fighter doing the same?
Bread’s Response: Ok I will give it a go with the punchers. You have Speed Thudders. Joe Louis is the king of those guys. I believe Louis is the best puncher ever when you combine power, accuracy, technique and punch delivery. Other prevalent speed thudders are Bob Foster, Julian Jackson, Roberto Duran, Mike Tyson, Sergey Kovalev, Naseem Hamed and Lennox Lewis.
Then you have the Swordsmen. The swordsmen are sharp pin point ko artist. They often hit you and create delayed reaction kos. Tommy Hearns is the king of the swordsmen. See his ko of James Shuler. Donald Curry, Ricardo Lopez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Rafael Marquez and Oscar De La Hoya are all swordsmen.
Next are the Electric Slashers. Sugar Ray Robinson is the king of these guys. They throw slashing, punishing shots. They need their entire bodies to generate the electric energy. Ray Leonard, Shane Mosley, Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones, Terry Norris, Nigel Benn and Canelo Alvarez are all Electric Slashers.
Heavy handed Debilitators are up next. Alexis Arguello is the king of these guys. These guys are accurate heavy handed technicians. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr, Gennaday Golvkin, Marvin Hagler, Azumah Nelson, Carlos Zarate, Ruben Olivares are all Heavy Handed Debilitators.
The last category is the Bludgeon Crew. Most times this guy is a heavyweight. The king would be George Foreman. This is usually a man strong enough to punch threw anything. It doesn’t matter if your hands or up or not. They don’t care what they hit because they hurt and break everything. Sonny Liston, David Tua, Marcos Maidana, Gerald McClellan, Earnie Shavers are all part of the Bludgeon Crew.
I did that off the top of my head I hope you liked it.
Despite the criticism I think Degale fought really well. He has a great two fisted inside attack. And as you stated he bends well to avoid shots. I think he transitions from offense to defense well enough. But here is something you have to realize. Degale is offensive minded these days. Any fighters who is committing to hurting his opponents can and will be hit in extended fights. I do think he could use his jab a little more and that would give him a built in defense when he’s transitioning. But other than that I would be nitpicking. Degale is doing his thing and he’s a tremendous fighter.
I thought Degale did a great job of beating Bute. Bute looked like the Bute of old and Degale handled him and defeated him in what could have been Bute’s last top performance.
Tyson Fury understands how to box. His feints were money. Maybe Niccolino Nocche could have won a round without throwing a punch. But very few guys can do that.
You’re 100% correct about two things. One Fury won the fights with his feints. Two Wlad needs to touch you with his jab in order to hit you his right hand. He has to “feel” the distance. He didn’t hit Fury with many big right hands because his jab was thrown off. Fury took his front foot away from him. He didn’t allow him to step into anything because of the feints.
I wanted to get your thoughts on a situation that has been bothering me with regard to Canelo. All credit to the man for outboxing the great Miguel Cotto. I thought it was a great performance on his part. With that said, looking at the potential fight with GGG, Canelo's insistence on fighting at 155 is a little annoying to me. Is he a middleweight, or isn't he? Golden Boy maintains that he isn't a 154 pound fighter. I believe his last three fights have been at a 155 pound catchweight. If you aren't able to make 154, and you're calling yourself a middleweight, don't you have to fight at 160? With regard to a potential GGG fight, Canelo and his team keep saying that they are happy to do it if GGG comes down to Canelo's "weight class." 155 isn't a weight class. I know catchweights are part of the business, but if I'm GGG, there is no way I would take that fight at anything below 158, especially when both guys could easily be comfortable with 160, which is the weight middleweights are supposed to fight at.
Do you think this fight will get made, or do you think Golden Boy is going to stick to their guns with this 155 pound thing? Obviously the cupboard is a little bare with GB, and Canelo is really their only superstar. It has to be imperative for Golden Boy that he keeps winning. Doing the math, I don't see this fight getting made for a while. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'd love to get your opinion.
Lastly, how do you see a Fury-Wilder fight playing out? Fury beating Wlad has breathed some new life into the division for the first time in a long time, which is very exciting. Hopefully he and Wilder can get in the ring together soon and we can see who is the best. Your breakdowns are always spot on, so I look forward to getting your thoughts on that one.
Thanks and all the best.
Bread’s Response: I’m not opposed to catchweights. Fighters and their teams will get every advantage possible. It’s what they are supposed to do. I’m just not a fan of people picking and choosing what catchweight is good and which one is bad. GGG’s fans love the idea of GGG making Ward come down to 164. But they aren’t fond of Canelo making GGG come down to 155.
I personally feel GGG should stand on his rock and force Canelo to fight him at a weight he’s comfortable with. Sergio Martinez fought Cotto at 159. But I assume Martinez was comfortable at 159. GGG and any other solid middleweight should force Canelo to fight at 160. The media, the fans , the sanctioning bodies and most importantly the networks will all eventually turn on Golden Boy and Canelo if the only roadblock is Canelo wanting to fight at 155 when he’s the middleweight champion. GGG and his team would be in the right and Canelo would not really have an argument if they refused.
Fighters shouldn’t prostitute their performance and health for the money. If cutting too much will affect your performance don’t do it then make excuses afterwards. I’ve always said and still say GGG can’t make 154 or 155 in a healthy manner. People say he’s not a big middleweight but I beg to differ. He’s just not a 6’2 middleweight. But he has long arms, a barrel chest , good size legs and he’s really dense. He’s a perfect size for his style and 160. Just because he doesn’t let the public see him walk around high in weight doesn’t mean if he sat around for a month and didn’t work out he wouldn’t naturally be a 175-180lb man. I hope GGG says no to the 155lb catchweight and force the WBC and HBO to make the right decision. Sometimes integrity is worth more than money.
I’m really impressed with Fury. He can really “box” and he understands certain subtle nuances. But he beat a timid champion in Wladimir Klitschko. Deontay Wilder has his flaws but he’s not a timid man. He lets his hands go with bad intentions. He also has a really fast first step for a heavyweight. I have been studying Wilder close and he has improved a lot. I also think he’s going to seriously hurt someone in the MX Everlast gloves that he wears. Those gloves are made out of horse hair, they are the ones that Floyd Mayweather would not let Marcos Maidana wear. Wilder does severe facial damage with those gloves. Gloves may seem like a small thing but trust me they aren’t.
I’ve also noticed that Wilder is about 10lbs heavier in his last 2 fights than he was against Bermane Stiverne in his title winning performance. I don’t get that. I thought he was as fast as lightning at 219 or 220. I think he will need his speed vs Fury. I believe it’s 50/50 fight with Fury having the advantage late and Wilder being the sharper, more explosive guy early. If you twist my arm I say Wilder.
What did you think of the Danny Jacobs vs Peter Quillin fight? I know you always said that Quillin should fight at super middleweight. Where does each guy go from here and do you think it was a quick stoppage?
Bread’s Response: I thought Danny Jacobs did a great job. Peter Quillin has poor defensive reaction. He sort of stares at you buggy eyed but if you stare too long you lose focus. He’s very easy to hit. Jacobs is a big fast puncher and stepped right to him. Jacobs always knew he could clip Quillin. He openly talks about being able to handle Quillin consistently in sparring.
I think Jacobs is in the driver’s seat. He should make a ton a money over the next few years with a big ko like the one over Quillin and a built in home at the Barclay’s Center.
I don’t know where Quillin goes. I’m not sure about his desire anymore. He seemed very content with what most quietly think was a bad stoppage. If he goes to 168 the waters will be choppy. I assume a rematch with Jacobs. But making 160 for Quillin is energy sapping in my opinion.
People assume because Quillin didn’t complain about the stoppage that he agreed with it. So then they assumed the stoppage was good. I think Quillin is in a different place. If his fight with Hasan Ndam had been stopped like that he went have went ape s#$% but he’s in a different place in his life.
I think Harvey Dock is a great ref but I think he made a bad call in this one. I want you guys to think about something. Tell me when a fight has ever been stopped in the 1st round, with NO knockdown and the hurt fighter is in the center of the ring and not helpless on the ropes. I have researched and researched and I can’t think of one scenario that fits the criterion I just stated. A fighter should be allowed to recover from being visibly hurt. If this becomes a trend we will never see great fights again. All of the classics are allowed to play out. Adversity is apart of the script.
I don’t ever want to see anyone get seriously hurt. But this is the hurt the business. You can’t kill a man’s dreams. Being hurt and being helpless is different. Quillin was hurt no doubt. But he’s a strong guy. He could have held. He could have been knocked down soon after. Jacobs could have shot his load. We all deserved a conclusive ending and if a rematch is being discussed on a 1st round ko then we should know that the ending was not conclusive.
I think in light of what happened to Prichard Colon everyone will be on edge for a while and we will get a few more quick stoppages before things go back to normal. But nevertheless a fighter deserves a fair chance to recover.
What do you think of Anthony Joshua vs Dyllian White? Does Robert Guerrero have a shot vs Danny Garcia. And what the hell is going on with Keith Thurman. Shawn porter seems ready to fight.
Bread’s Response: I think Anthony Joshua has matured a great deal since his amateur fight with White. I like Joshua to win this fight. Mid round stoppage seems about right.
Every man has a shot in that ring but I think Danny Garcia is going to stop Robert Guerrero. Garcia always seems to be in the right spot and the right time, to get the right fights. This fight will be no different.
Keith Thurman used to scream and holler that no one would fight him. When he wanted to fight Paulie Malignaggi, Danny Garcia and Amir Khan he was the loudest dog on the block. Then Shawn Porter and Errol Spence started barking back and………. Maybe Thurman is letting things simmer. But it’s important that fighters be accountable for their words and actions. It’s one thing for the media or members of their teams to say no one wants to fight them, it’s different when the fighter says it himself. Hopefully Thurman and Porter fight. It’s a great fight that both need.
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