By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns, as Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards discusses the marketing of Floyd Mayweather Jr., Manny Pacquiao's healed shoulder, Andre War and a possible fight between him and Sergey Kovalev, and more.
Pull counters on Freitas all night. Freitas, was a strong and competent fighter but his reflexes weren’t the best. That fight would’ve went down like the Mosley fight Freitas fought similar to Mosley.
Floyd would’ve fought Casamayor similar to how he fought Zab Judah. He’d have gone to Joel’s body (on the liver side), walked him down and probably finished him.
Tszyu had very good reflexes for a power puncher but Floyd would’ve pull countered him all night and fought a defensive fight because Tszyu was an aggressor and Floyd could’ve got him to walk into something. Floyd had much more punching power at 130-140 and Tszyu wasn’t a big 140lber. He’d have fought Tszyu similar to how he fought Diego Corrales.
Stevie Johnston could go blow for blow with Floyd to a point. Floyd was a bit quicker than Johnston and that would be his edge in their fight. It would probably look like Floyd’s fight against Emmanuel Augustus.
Floyd would’ve fought Antonio Margarito like he fought Carlos Baldomir. Regardless of whether Margarito always fought with bricks in his gloves you can’t take away his stone chin and Floyd wouldn’t have had the power to dent that chin. That body jab that Floyd uses would’ve kept him ahead of the Tijauna Tornado. And the fact that Margarito was slow of hand and foot would allow Floyd to coast to a points victory.
I forgot Cotto:
Cotto was more raw then he is now, and fought similar to his protégé Henry Bruselles. Cotto was even a Bruselles sparring partner for his preparation to fight Floyd. After Floyd destroyed Bruselles, Cotto wanted no parts of Mayweather and wouldn’t even talk about fighting Floyd. Floyd was more aggressive between 2005 -2009 because he was still trying to become the star he is now. Floyd would’ve beaten Cotto just like he did Bruselles. Arum saw that and kept Mayweather and Cotto from fighting which was a good thing for Cotto. Arum was very protective of Cotto during the period you speak of, Chop Chop Corley and Miguel Torres both deserved rematches that they never got.
I also believe that Andre Berto will bring out the best Mayweather we have seen in a long time, because Berto has lost badly, knows how to lose and has nothing to lose. I think that’s why Floyd chose him. This will pump up Floyd’s fighting juices for his 50th fight September 2016.
After Cotto beats Canelo there will be a rematch between Mayweather and Cotto for the middleweight crown, they’ll pay GGG step aside money for this rematch to happen. Canelo will lose because Chapo Reynoso and his son have taken Canelo as far as he can go skillwise and they’re not as adept at the elite level of boxing against elite competition as Freddie Roach is. I expect that Oscar DLH will bring in a new trainer (Floyd Sr., Robert Garcia) to train Canelo after he loses to Cotto.
Bread’s Response: Good breakdown on Floyd vs…. The fights that stand out to me are Tszyu in 2004 and Cotto around 2007-08. Tszyu looked great in his rematch vs Sharmba Mitchell and Floyd fought Demarcus Corley to get his feet wet at 140 around the same time. Tszyu was a straight murderous puncher, with a savvy way about him. Tszyu was never “outboxed”. I’m not picking against Floyd but that’s a fight I want to see with my own eyes.
I think you speak of Cotto of 2004, he was green back then. I’m talking about the one that beat Judah and Mosley in 2007. That Cotto didn’t know what it was like to lose. He had hit his peak and that was the best Cotto.
Man that Margarito fight was the one, from an excitement stand point. He threw 1000 punches a fight and couldn’t be hurt. His style was simplistic but savage. Yup that patented Mayweather jab to that long torso would have been a big key in keeping that savage off of him.
I pray you and your family are doing well .I feel the recent criticisms of Keith Thurman and Nicholas Walters recent performances and a few other fighters are not warrant. I know Broner stunk it out recently but his hero does it every time out and receives praise. Fraud Gayweather, Vladdy Klutzko and B-Hop have lowered the standards of the sport with their constant clinching and low output of punches. Bhop I give a pass because he is fifty years old and when he was younger he didn’t fight like he does now. Plus he never ducked the top competition and fought the best at their best. Imagine him taking on a Kovalev at this stage of his career. B-Hop is a true champion. Boring but effective .The same for Vladdy. He ducks no one and fights top guys and unlike Fraud he does get the occasional KO.Vladdy is a true champion he just fights in the worst era in heavyweight history. Fraud I don’t get. He stinks it out when he fights and waits for his best opponents to be on the decline (See Cotto and Pac Man) before he fights them and his dumb ass fans cheer him on while he does it. Canelo really lost to Austin Trout that is why Fraud fought him.
If Canelo had done to Trout what he did to Kirkland Fraud would have never fought him.Thurman‘s fights and Walter’s last fight were epic performances if you compare them to the suppose TBE. They both put on better shows. I remember when Pac Man was criticized for dropping Algeri 6 times and not stopping him .If Fraud dropped a guy one time in a fight his gay groupies (Kevin Iole ) would all have an orgasm and start that bullsh*t of how great he is and he would beat everybody. Fraud is great on defense because he sucks at offense. He has mastered the art of not getting hit but doesn’t do any hitting. You get less bang for the buck when he performs. He should receive the Nobel Peace Prize for taking the violence out of Boxing. Terrance Crawford fights out of a boxing posture and is a technician and has been very entertaining lately. Sergio Martinez used movement and boxed and was a joy to watch. You can be a good boxer and still be entertaining. Fraud, Lara and Rigo stink it out. They get called out for it ,Fraud gets praise for doing the same thing.
When I watch Lebron James I feel like I’m watching the greatest player I’ve ever seen in the history of the NBA. When I watch Hussein Bolt I know I’m watching the fastest man who ever lived. When I watch Serena Williams I know I’m watching the greatest female tennis player who ever lived. I don’t watch Fraud. His highlights or should I say lowlights are even boring. I’m jealous of Lebron because I wish I could play basketball like him. I’m jealous of Aaron Pryor and Tommy Hearns because I wish I could fight as well as they could. I look at Fraud and feel I could kick his ass. He is so unimpressive.
I feel Rhonda Rousey would f---k him up. Now that a whole generation of fighters have seen him get over and get crazy paid for putting on the worst fights since Hector Camacho. You can expect to see more boring fights than ever. He has help lower the standards of what a great fighter should be and you are seeing it now with Broner and others. Fraud stinks it out and gets praise and others stink it out and get criticize. I don’t get his popularity at all.I actually wish Mayweather was a better offensive fighter then I could watch his fights and it would really help the sport. After every one of his fights all I hear is people bitching about how much Boxing sucks. I never heard that after Ali, Hearns, Hagler, Holyfield and guys like that fought. I can't believe people pay to watch this guy but I do feel that there is a racial component to it. Mayweather has become the symbol of the obnoxious, arrogant, rich black athlete that White America despises and he has used that tool to make money and to get black people to try to rally behind him. I have talked to a number of African American fighters who think Mayweather sucks but won't say it publicly because the Black community (especially the Hip-Hop Generation) has made him their guy kind of the way they did Allen Iverson and Tupac Shakur.
I'm not buying what their selling and the guy is horrible to watch and I refuse to watch. I saw his losses to Maidana and Castillo so they can try to trump that undefeated bullsh*t to someone else. Black people want to see him break Rocky Marciano's record which I could care less about. As a fight fan I just want to see great fights and I have no emotional investment in supporting Fraud. I use to be a big fan of Floyd at 130 when he use to whip ass and take names but once he morphed into Fraud and start fighting like a little bitch I can't take it. My white friends hate him and my black friends love him. I don't care and just can't wait to he is gone. His career shows you how deep the racial divide is in this country and it is very sad.
I can find something better than Fraud to use as rallying cry for racial pride and I am a proud black man but you couldn’t give me a free ringside seat ticket to watch him. I did enjoy his fights back in the day when he used to kick ass. His fights against Hernandez, Chavez, Gatti, Corrales, Hatton, Castillo and Manfredy were excellent. I miss that Floyd Mayweather. May he rest in peace.
Bread’s Response: Man you went in….Floyd is a marketing genius because whenever he announces a fight he gets everyone riled up. I want to write something about my boy Steve Cunningham but not one person asked me about him in the mailbag….
You sent a long email. I won’t touch on everything but I will touch on the race issue. It’s interesting to see who roots for certain fighters and who doesn’t and the reasons they give. I can sort of predict who will like a certain fighter about 80% of the time. Floyd has definitely used the culture and climate of these times to promote himself.
I do believe you are getting too upset however. A man that you don’t know or that has no bearing on your life should not be able to get you so upset. I can tell by the passion in your email you really dislike Floyd. I really appreciate you writing in. But as a boxing family we should all try to be less negative. It will take our sport to new levels.
Floyd Mayweather is a rare athlete. He draws so many emotions that are all over the spectrum. His loyal fans will overrate him and swear he could beat every fighter in history from 130-154 12 rounds to zip. His detractors will swear he’s the biggest fraud in history. And yes you are correct fighters will say things about Floyd off the record that they will never admit to on the record. It’s one of the strangest and most bizarre observations of an athlete that I have ever witnessed. I just can’t understand for the life me why people look at Floyd in so many different ways.
So DaBreezy whats your thoughts on what Pac Man said? Also why isn't this being reported like wildfire after Floyd has been blamed for what he normally does.... Take away what another fighter does best..
Bread’s Response: I don’t play around with God. If the man thinks God healed him who am I to argue…
Personally I think Pacquiao had a reoccurring injury that was aggravated in camp. I know people who were in his camp and I don’t believe he stopped sparring for no reason. I think they tried to get the shot to numb him but his team made a blunder and didn’t go about it the correct way. However, I don’t think it had a bearing on the fight. Pacquiao was a little bit lazy and did not have the legs to go get Floyd. His feet weren’t active and that had nothing to do with his shoulder. Pacquiao is an old, high energy fighter and I personally have never seen one have a great performance against a great fighter after 35. I didn’t expect one from Pacquiao May 2nd.
I think overall fighters make excuses for lackluster performances. Sometimes the excuses are true, sometimes they aren’t. I think this is getting blown out of proportions. All in all Manny shouldn’t have said anything and he definitely should not have shown up to the post fight press conference with a sling on his arm. Oh well, another poor PR move by Team Pacquiao.
What's up Bread? I hope your week is off to a good start. I wanted to briefly touch on my top 5 of all time and would love to hear your response to it. I'm in my late 20's but I've been able to watch some fights and fighters from as far back as 60-70 years ago. And I mean entire fights. I've been able to watch Sugar Ray Robinson-Jake Lamotta entire fights, Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns, Ali-Foreman, Leonard-Duran, Ali-Liston, Ali-Lyle (Lyle wasn't a bad heavyweight), etc.. I've been able to watch fighters such as Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Jake Lamotta, Roy Jones in his prime, Ali, and so forth. I say all of this because I saw where Floyd Mayweather named his top 5 boxers of all time. I don't think his top 5 was bad but I don't think Mayweather was being completely objective. A lot of the guys I'm about to put on my list have a lot of losses on their records but they fought some guys 4-5 times and flat out fought way more than today's fighters so I take that into consideration as well. The body won't break down as fast when you fight 2-3 times per year as opposed to 2-3 times every two months.
Anyways, I've come up with my top 5 boxers of all time in no particular order based on what I've seen and my research:
Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Ali, Willie Pep, Joe Louis. There are probably about 15-20 fighters who have a good argument that they could be in the top 5. I also don't like putting a fighter in the all time ranks until the fighter retires for good.
Peace out Breadman and keep dropping knowledge like always!
Bread’s Response: I love your top 5.
Great point about the body breaking down. Fighters today get to use PEDs. They fight 2 times year. They use bigger, puffier gloves. And they have all of the advantages of advanced recovery methods. I still say the pressure fighters fall off in their late 20s and early 30s. And the boxer punchers last until their mid 30s.
What’s good my dude? Lots to get to, so I appreciate your time in advance. Sad to see James Toney catching a loss against a journeyman. Toney is one of those all-timers who won’t get his just due 20 years from now. But man could he bring it. I still remember when he traveled to Michael Nunn’s hometown and starched him late, down on the cards, to win the middleweight championship. What a moment.
To the questions …
I believe Floyd Mayweather is a Top 30 all-time guy, without question. I don’t think he’s top 10 … but you can make a very strong argument for top 20 … and anything in the 20-30 range shouldn’t raise too much of an issue – at all.
Most people say he doesn’t have the resume to be considered higher on the All-Time list. Others say he missed too many opponents over the years. But this is where I strongly disagree. At the end of the day he missed Margorito and Punisher during his prime and Kosta on the come up possibly. So I believe Floyd’s resume is completely fine. Sugar Shane, Oscar, Cotto, Canelo, Jose Luis Castillo, Corrales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Ricky Hatton and Pacquiao at the top level give him the stamp. Marcos Maidana, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Robert Guerrero and Sharmba Mitchell fill out a strong second tier of guys who had their share of moments. Guys like Victor Ortiz, Andre Berto (soon to be), Arturo Gatti and Angel Manfredy are some of those standout third tier guys that managed to win fringe titles. Not bad. History will be kind to his legacy on paper.
My belief is that it’s not Floyd’s actual resume that hinders him from being considered higher on people’s lists … it’s that his fights at the top level were devoid of “legend creating” drama. Legends aren’t created by generating 12 round unanimous decisions. Follow me … when I was a kid I thought (and still do) Sugar Ray Leonard was a superhero. Losing to Duran then avenging his loss, making the man quit. Angelo Dundee telling him in the corner “you’re throwing it all away kid” and then him pushing forward to KO Thomas Hearns late. Turning from a flashy boxer to outright mean spirited stalker in a matter of rounds. Overcoming the eye issues … then who could forget the five year layoff and then coming back to defeat Hagler for the middleweight championship … those flurries in the twelfth round … an absolute thing of beauty my dude. We remember Ali fondly for overcoming “unbeatable” Liston at a young age battling the substance in his eyes, the brash talk and backing it up, making Floyd Patterson say his name, the Frazier trilogy, rope a dope versus Forman, reclaiming his crown versus Leon Spinks when he was far past it. These moments defined their character. These moments thrust these guys into legendary status.
We haven’t witnessed Floyd rising from multiple knockdowns, scoring a late desperate KO down on the cards, turn from counter puncher to brawler to snatch a win from sure defeat, overcome a broken jaw, separated shoulder, etc. And since we haven’t witnessed this stuff, the stuff past legends had to overcome to earn their stripes, we view him differently. It’s the reason I was hoping Manny would walk him through the fire so we could see that character he possesses - even though I always believed Floyd would be too much for him technically. It’s the reason why people want him to fight GGG to prove himself. People see the greatness, but need some type of stamp. If he could of scored a KO or three in some of those top fights we’d be viewing him differently.
What do you think? Reggie, Atlanta
Bread’s Response: Great comment. I have Floyd in the exact range that you do. Top 20-30 and it’s really nothing wrong with that if you keep everything in perspective. On paper his supporters have great support. He has lots of excellent 2nd tier victories, in which all long careers have.
He also has his share of top tier heads he has scalped. I usually don’t agree with everything someone says but I actually agree with about 99% of what you said. My slight disagreement is the “misses”.
Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Kostya Tszyu are not his only misses. Fighting both Pacquiao and Cotto AFTER they were brutally knocked out is something that is relevant in accessing him. Fighting Pacquiao in 2015, is not the same as fighting Pacquiao in 2009 or 2010. Fighting Cotto in 2012 is not the same as fighting Cotto in 2008. Missing Stevie Johnston at 135 is also something that needs to be looked at. Johnston performed equally to Floyd in contrast fights with Jose Luis Castillo. Instead of getting a shot at Floyd he had to fight another eliminator and lost and the rest is history. And Floyd not unifying against two undefeated titlist in his division in Joel Casamayor and Acelino Freitas hurts him slightly.
I don’t believe all of these misses are his fault. Especially Freitas and Casamayor because they fought on Showtime. But it’s too many in total to assume he can’t take the blame for any of them. When something happens this often it’s not a coincidence. No fighter can fight everybody the public wants him to fight. But there were about 8 fights that happened years too late or never happened at all and that’s a lot for an all time great. I know some disagree with me but I believe Floyd is an all time great fighter. He’s one of the 3 or 4 best junior light weights ever. He’s one of the 10-15 welterweights ever. Head to head he rates with the top 10 at 135 and 140. And he’s the best fighter since Roy Jones’s prime.
The enigma is…..I understand that other colorful, popular fighters have had advantages in their careers. But those fighters also put themselves “up against it willingly” and that’s not something Floyd has ever done. And history slightly holds his mentality against him.
You’re also right again. If Floyd would have just turned into a killer against a few of his opponents once he reached the point where he was averaging 1 million PPV buys/bout, then history would view him differently. It’s another enigma but it’s true. For example in the Pacquiao fight, even his father was pleading for him to be more violent with Manny. But Floyd wants to secure the win….. I think he picked Berto so he can show the world this side. I expect him to be a savage vs Andre Berto.
James Toney is actually historically underrated. I once saw a list of the top 80 fighters of the last 80 years and Toney was not on it. He was inconsistent at times but boy was he special. The second half of the 90s he really struggled but he turned into a monster in the early 2000s. Toney rates really high head to head. I think he holds his own on his best night with any man from 160-200lbs. And That’s saying something brother. But he was his own worst enemy. The Dave Tiberi fight. The Montell Griffin and Drake Thadzi losses. The Roy Jones egg laying…Toney had a little Sandy Saddler in him. Another inconsistent all timer but Saddler brought it in title fights. Toney laid eggs wherever he felt like it. All in all the night he beat Nunn was my 1st time seeing Toney.
I knew Nunn well and I knew how difficult he was. Toney was patient, accurate and a man’s man that night. Toney pressured Nunn and counterpunched him at the same time. And history may have you think he landed a lucky punch. But that’s not true. He was clipping Nunn all night with counters.
Toney is the most confident fighter I have ever seen. He’s the most relaxed fighter I have ever seen. He’s top 5 inside fighters I have seen in my lifetime. He’s top 10 counter punchers I have seen in my lifetime. He has a top 5 chin I have seen in my lifetime. And he’s top late round punchers I have seen in my lifetime. Great fighter.
Hi Bread,morning to you.I've been a fan of Andre Ward since the Athens Olympics.People easily forget d experienced killers he had to overcome to get gold.Mind you it was at d age of just 20. I strongly believe he is unbeatable.And that brings up the 2 possible killers that can test him seriously-GGG and Krusher,but of the 2 am giving GGG the edge cos he is very patient n stalks his opponents like a predator with his major disadvantage been his size n against a master like 'Dre dat is 2 much to give up.
But Krusher is different cos he hits harder n is a teak tuff roughhouser with pedigree really.I saw him using angles n concentrating like never before against Pascal,he won that fight cos he held n pushed n roughed up Pascal.And this is where he would give S.O.G serious problems.Lastly to Floyd,here is the thing why he'd not wanna try to beat Marciano's record-he'd always be mentioned against Rocky,when records like that come up for debate n I trust Money n his ppl they wouldn't wanna give that up for one more mega payday that he honestly don't need.Would like to hear from you.Bobby Enudi,Nigeria.
Bread’s Response: Man I am a big Ward fan also. I didn’t realize how good Ward was until he beat Chad Dawson. I appreciated him but the Dawson fight let me know he has all time great potential. Ward is heavily reliant on his LEFT hand. Which does not always translate to dominant performances against southpaws. But Ward “adjusted” and started hitting Dawson with a hybrid hook and tore him to pieces. Before then I knew he was real. After Dawson I knew he was special.
No fighter is unbeatable. God did not create a man that can’t be beat. It’s just harder to beat some than others. I would favor Ward over both Krusher and Good Boy but he has to beat them in the ring. Fights are not won on odds making and paper.
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