Advertisement: IBO Boxing
Advertisement
Boxingscene.com
Advertisement

Daily Bread Mailbag: Pacquiao-Thurman, Tyson Fury, Mayweather

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Tyson Fury's 2015 drug test failures, Manny Pacquiao vs. Keith Thurman, the career of Floyd Mayweather, the Philly boxing scene, and more.

Bread,

Tyson Fury did what he was supposed to do against an opponent of questionable resume. I have a question though, that has been bugging me. At what point will someone (other than Dan Rafael & he hasn’t mentioned it in print since it happened) bring up “lineal” Heavyweight Champion Tyson Fury- along with his cousin Hugie Fury- testing positive for the steroid Nandrolone?

Am I the only one who remembers this??? I love our society, in which boxing has a convenient habit of “forgiving” (or more aptly “forgetting”) fighters we like (Canelo, Fury & Shane Mosely). VERY convenient also that Fury suffered from depression for two years RIGHT AFTER HE FAILED, then refused to provide a sample for a later test. I know someone in your position can’t afford to walk down the road I am walking down, but I’m , for better or worse , not bound but such restraints & I as someone who has long suffered from depression most of my adult life , which I might add has come upon me at inopportune times in my life : call Bullsh*#t man. Frankly, I’m a little insulted by the whole thing. I just need someone to explain to me the rules-Luis Ortiz & Alexander Povetkin are dirty lousy, no good cheaters, yet Tyson Fury dresses up like Apollo Creed & we all laugh and ignore his own murky past. NOBODY just cheats once. I think there is a mental edge athletes gain from PED’s that drives them more than the results they bring. So what are we to do Bread? Evander Holyfield, James Toney & Shane Mosely were all fighters I adored watching . Are there accomplishments now to be forever asterisked? How can they not be? But how is that fair? Was Holyfield juiced to the gills in his heroic comeback against  Mike Tyson , after he looked finished as a fighter? We’ll never know. The nature of PED’s lends itself to such speculation. It’s not fair, but I guess that’s the

Also, what happens when someone gets SERIOUSLY HURT & their opponent tests positive for PED’s? It’ll happen, it will be a shame if it takes something like that to force boxing into action. For every J-Rock or GGG, there are top stars who remain apathetic to testing. Or Worse.

I do t want to end my email on a somber note, so your picks on these?

M.Moorer/M. Muhammad (175)
T.Fury/70’s G.Foreman (HWT)
K.Tszyu/P.Whitaker (140)
S.Liston/L.Lewis (HWT)
S.Kovalev/V.Hill (175)
M.Nunn/M.McCallum (160)
J.Calzaghe/T.Hearns (168)
B. Hopkins/M.Spinks (175)
M.Taylor/O.De La Hoya (140)

I like Saad Muhammad by late KO in a war where they both hit the floor multiple times...Foreman by mid-rounds KO...Whitaker by UD...Liston by KO...Kovalev by late KO...Nunn by UD....Hearns by UD ....Spinks by UD....& De La Hoya by KO-I think that’s a bad match up for Taylor

Best Regards,
TomG

Bread’s Response: You know what you’re right. I really like Tyson Fury but no one ever talks about his positive PED test. I think the media overlooks it because if they bring it up they will lose access to the stars and they won’t get credentialed. What surprises me is that Deontay Wilder never brought it up. Wilder has been Pro VADA for a while now and it’s surprising he didn’t bring it up to get into Fury’s head when they fought. Very interesting point, you are one of the few people who has ever wrote in about Fury’s PED issues.

James Toney and Evander Holyfield were among favorite fighters of the 90s. When they fought each other I was upset because I like to have a clear fighter I root for. After reading about their PED issues I will admit it was disheartening. Toney tested positive so there is nothing I can say to defend that. I think he had an injury if I remember correctly and he admitted that he wanted to heal fast.

As for Holyfield he never tested positive but there is strong circumstantial evidence. That’s tough for me to admit because Holyfield could do no wrong in my eyes as a kid watching him.

Shane Mosley admitted on a video in a grand jury that he took PEDs. It’s hard to defend that…

What’s strange is I don’t think any of their legacies will be damaged. I think they will all be considered great fighters and ATG fighters. It’s just how boxing is. I don’t even like talking about it unless it’s a current fighter because I looked up to these fighters when they were fighting and it really bugs me out to have to look at them in a different light.

There was a girl I had a crush on back in the day. I was like 14 she was about 19 or 20. I thought she was a big deal. When I got older I found out that she slept with like 8 of my old heads and she wasn’t all that I thought she was. I was like DAM! That’s the feeling I get when a legend is surrounded by PED use. It DAMS me.

Michael Moorer was a beast at 175 but I couldn’t pick him over SAAD. SAAD by late come from behind stoppage, especially if it’s a 15 rounder.

Whitaker gets off the canvas on a flash knockdown to beat Tszyu up. Whitaker was meaner than people realized and he would actually beat Tszyu up on the inside They just missed each other.

I like Liston to ko Lewis. Liston is built eerily similar to Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall the two men to defeat Lewis. Liston could jab on even terms with Lewis and that would be a huge factor.

Kovalev over Hill in a battle of jabs.

Nunn squeaks out a decision over McCallum.

Hearns over Calzaghe. Hearns’s right hand with will nullify those fast flurries.

Spinks too big, too strong, punch too hard for Hopkins at 175.

I hate to say this but Oscar would beat Meldrick. Too long and his hook was a killer. Meldrick wouldn’t avoid it. He fought in the box too much.

pacquiao-thurman (2)

Hello Breadman,

If Pac-Man beats One-Time, what does such a win do for his career and legacy?

Thanks,
Carlos Antonelli

Bread’s Response: If Pac beats Thurman that pushes him up a peg ALL TIME. We would have to look at great 40 and over fighters who have won championships against undefeated and/or highly regarded fighters 10 years younger than them. That’s a very short list Pacman would be on.

Hey Breadman,

Do you recall Tyson Fury commenting after the Wilder fight, he was dedicating, committing himself to better conditioning going forward for future opponents & fights? Why would Fury be 7 LB's higher than Wilder's fight for tonite's fight with Schwarz? Why the heavier weight for Schwarz fight and no increased weight comments since Wilder's fight within boxing insiders and Fury?

Thank you, much appreciated!
Curtis/Cincy

Bread’s Response: I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say. Heavyweights don’t have a weight limit so they may come in a few lbs up or down. Fury didn’t look bad in my opinion. His body looked pretty good and he performed smooth. We have to try to not to overanalyze.

Maybe some members of the media knew Fury’s weight didn’t matter. It didn’t matter. He scored a 2nd round ko.

Come on dude. Sometimes you make statements that are head shaking and I usually just do that.

But to say “In 9696 when he went on his run and defeated Genaro Hernandez, Rafael Ruelas and Julio Cesar Chavez. I’m telling you from 135-140 you couldn’t name 5 men in history to beat Oscar head to head.”

I encourage you to go ONE fight- just ONE before he “went on his run” you mentioned.

Not only did he lose to John John Molina and get what has been a few gifts in his career, but nobody is saying you couldn’t name 5 men Molina in history to beat Molina.

It was a spirited response and I get it- you are a big de la Hoya fan.  But let’s pump the breaks man.

Couldn’t name 5 in history?
Come on.
Gregory

Bread’s Response: Shake your head all you want. You make no sense. Sometimes a fighter can have a tough night vs a fighter not regarded as high as them but go on to do great things. Holyfield struggled with Bobby Czyz and went on to stop Mike Tyson and Michael Moorer to win fighter of the year in 1997. Czyz couldn’t beat Tyson or Moorer…

I’m shaking my head at how ridiculous you sound. Oscar was 16-0 when he fought Molina. Molina could get down. He has some serious wins from 130-140. He won the junior lightweight title about 3 times and he didn’t lose the last time in the ring. He moved up to fight Oscar. In his run he beat Tony Lopez, Ben Tackie, Emanuel Augustus, Wilson Rodriguez, Gregorio Vargas, Manuel Medina and Bernard Taylor. Are you kidding me! Molina was a top 5 junior lightweight of the 90s. After Floyd, Oscar and Genaro Hernandez is he’s right on par with everyone else.

Rugged elite veterans have throughout history given superstars tough nights. Doug Jones gave Ali one. But a Know IT ALL like you wouldn’t know that.

Again on the night in June of 1996 when Oscar fought Chavez for the 1st time. I don’t know 5 fighters in history between 135-140 who would’ve beat him. Greater and Better are two different things. There are many who had greater careers at 135 and 140. But better head to head is different. Oscar was a 5’10 junior welterweight with pedigree, one punch ko power, a great chin, elite hand speed, a great jab and a killer instinct. He also had the physicality of a junior middleweight where he ultimately settled. How many lightweights and junior welterweights do you know what could have won titles at 154 like Oscar did?

I will say it again so you can READ it loud and clear. The Oscar from 96 can go with anyone in history from 135-140. If you don’t like it and it makes you shake your head then don’t READ it.

Philly has a resurgent fight scene. Man you guys produce some great fighters. Jrock is the #1 junior middleweight with two titles. Tevin Farmer is a top 3 junior lightweight. Danny Garcia is always in the mix and he has a big fight coming up vs Mikey Garcia. Stephen Fulton just won a title. And Jaron Ennis looked really good on Showbox. What other fighters are making noise in Philly and can you rank Philly’s top 10 P4P? Also what city produces the best fighters historically and currently, Philly or DMV?

Bread’s Response: Philly is on the rise in boxing. Hopefully we can bring a world championship fight to Philly this year.

I won’t rank the top 10 P4P in Philly. But there are some serious fighters in the city. Jrock has a chance to win all of the belts at 154. Stephen Fulton is a force at 122. Tevin Farmer already has about 4 title defenses and I am super happy for him. Danny Garcia is almost a Hall of Famer. Bryant Jennings has a big fight vs Joe Joyce coming up. Jennings has a chance in this one. I also hear Steve Cunningham is coming back.

Jaron Ennis is leading the pack for the prospect/contenders. I think Ennis has potential to win titles from 147-160. Philly also has about a dozen undefeated prospects who can really make a push as contenders. There is a kid a from outside of Philly named Joseph Adorno that looks likes the goods. And we have an amateur Atif Oberlton who is making a push for the 2020 Olympics.

I don’t like to compare the DMV to Philly because that is 3 states vs one city. So it’s not fair. If you separate DC, Maryland and Virginia then it’s not really close. But if you put all 3 together it becomes competitively close. And don’t forget Philadelphia is not a state it’s a city.

But when they go head to head Philly usually comes out on top. Jrock just beat Jarrett Hurd. Danny Garcia beat Lamont Peterson. Bernard Hopkins beat Keith Holmes, William Joppy, Andrew Council and Simon Brown in Philly vs DMV match ups.

And I’m not knocking the DMV they have great fighters. My favorite fighter is Ray Leonard. But Philly does seem to win the match ups.

The places that produce the best fighters in my opinion are California. The whole state of California from southern California to the Bay Area produces tremendous fighters.

Ohio also has some excellent fighters. Cincinnati and Cleveland to be specific seems to produce a slew of high class talent. Aaron Pryor and Ezzard Charles. Recently Adrien Broner and Robert Easter won titles both are from Ohio.

Michigan is another place that seems to always produce a handful of elite pros and amateurs. Detroit, Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids usually produce some excellent fighters. Joe Louis, Tommy Hearns, Floyd Mayweather and James Toney. Tony Harrison and Claressa Shields are current Michigan champions.

PA may produce the best fighters. Philly is the hotbed. But Western Pa has also produced some great fighters Billy Conn, Charley Burley and Paul Spadafora are all from the Pittsburgh. Philly has Bernard Hopkins, Joe Frazier, Meldrick Taylor, Jeff Chandler, Saad Muhammad, Harold Johnson and many, many more.

DC and Maryland finish up the list. Ray Leonard, Mark Johnson, Hasim Rahman, William Joppy, Sharmba Mitchell, Lamont Peterson and Jarrett Hurd were all from those two states.

New York also produces excellent fighters but they rarely produce world champions anymore. They have a large population so per capita you would assume they would always have a world champion. But Danny Jacobs is their only recent world champion unless I forgot someone. But Ray Robinson is from Harlem so that sort of shuts everyone up, lol.

So if you fight a guy from PA, Ohio, DC, Maryland, Michigan, California or NY expect him to have a little more sauce to his game than usual.

Bread,

Hope all is well.  Curious about your thoughts on Hopkins vs Trinidad. Bhop fought the perfect fight, displayed the better skill set, and showed master-like ring savvy.  Tito never found a rhythm, and was bewildered through the end.  It was as dominant a performance in a "superfight" as one can see. They never ran it back either, so that may say more than anything.  The wrap situation before the fight seems to be remembered more, but do you think if Tito hadn't been stuck in NYC in the aftermath of 9/11, while Bhop was able to make it back to Philly to regroup during the delay, we possibly would've seen something different?  Or was this a case of fight three times, see the same result three times? 
Thanks,
Ray

Bread’s Response: I actually have this conversation often with a fellow trainer. Very interesting you asked. Because of Hopkins’s dominance it’s easy to assume that he always dominates Tito. I won’t ever debate that. Hopkins fought the perfect fight when he was the underdog vs a HOF. Hopkins deserves all of the praise he got for that performance.

But I have always wondered how the 2 week delay affected Tito. Tito was smaller than Hopkins as far as coming up in weight but I personally believed he walked around at a higher weight than Hopkins. So therefore he was coming down from higher.

I bought tickets to the original fight, it was scheduled for September 15th. 9-11 happened on September 11th. The fight was rescheduled to September 29th. I don’t want to make an excuse for any fighter and it’s to Hopkins’s credit that he stays close to weight. But I did wonder how dropping weight then having to be in limbo with the reschedule affected Tito. You can’t give him a pass because Hopkins had to go through the same thing. But it is something to ponder. I’ve always wondered did Tito hold the weight he was at on 9-11. Or did he put on a few lbs then cut weight again leading into September 29th. It’s really a question that needs to be asked to Tito and his trainer/father.

Breadman, sup?

In your opinion, what are Floyd Mayweather's most impressive fights? Here are mine.

1) vs Diego Corrales- entertaining from start to finish. Both undefeated. The only reason I wouldn't put it as an all time great fight in general is because it was so one-sided.

2)  vs Ricky Hatton- Again, both undefeated. Hatton recently sent Kostya Tszuy into retirement. Though the fight was in Vegas, Hattons fans made it sound like they were in Manchester. Hatton tried to rough Floyd up and got stopped dramatically, 2 years before Manny did it.

3) vs Shane Mosley- Floyd got absolutely rocked twice in one round. What did he do? Did he run and use the ring? No . Completely changed the fight with speed and timing, and staying in the pocket. Big takeaway from this fight is in one of the middle rounds, Coach Richardson telling Shane that Floyd's true gift was his conditioning.

4) vs Miguel Cotto. Stood right in front of Cotto all night long. Not even Canelo did that vs Cotto. Sure he was bloodied a little... But he still won unanimously.

5) vs Canelo. For all the talk about Floyd being a soft puncher, Canelo did not walk through Mayweather's punches. Check out Canelos face afterwards.

There are two guys who I think are the best at their weights, but never get mentioned as such....Caleb Plant and Artur Beterbiev.   Am I way off here?

I'd like you to rank the 5 fastest guys as far as hand speed relative to their division....all time and current.

Bread’s Response: Floyd has plenty of great performances. He fought a perfect fight vs Diego Corrales. There is nothing more you can say about that fight. It was a 50/50 super fight vs a great fighter in his prime and Floyd took him apart.

Floyd controlled and tamed Canelo. He really gave him a lesson. Considering what Canelo has done since that fight, that performance gets better and better.

There are plenty of performances to pick from but the remaining two stand out to me. Zab Judah. Judah was coming off of a loss but he was in super shape for his fight with Mayweather. Judah got off to a great start, scoring an unofficial knockdown and winning 3 out of the 4 first rounds.

Floyd kept his cool, broke Judah down, took over the fight and dominated him over the second half. That is not easy to do once a world class talent like Judah gets rolling and off to a good start. Floyd showed more stuff and that stigma of him not being tough should have been done with but it wasn’t.

Then he faces Shane Mosley. He gets cracked with two huge right hands early in the fight. The second one hit him on the temple and took his legs away which is hard to recover from. Within 30 seconds he was walking Mosley down. This is unpopular opinion but he took Mosley’s heart a little bit. Mosley was trying to tap gloves and be friends and Floyd was chopping at him like a rabbit DOG. Mosley was one of the most vicious fighters of that era. He scored some brutal kos and he was usually a guy who got nasty when you pressed him. But against Floyd something happened. Floyd is what happened.

From a technical point of view the Corrales fight is his best night. But from the inside it was the Mosley fight. Floyd turned into a dragon with Mosley. That was very impressive. His attitude and poise under fire won him that fight. People thought he was a punk and scared of Mosley and he proved that wasn’t the case.

Caleb Plant is the truth. I think very highly of him. I don’t know if he’s the best at his weight yet but he might be. We have to see him vs David Benavidez and Callum Smith. Super Middleweight is loaded.

I think Artur Beterbiev is in a little bit of a performance. He doesn’t look like the guy who beat Gabriel Campillo. He seems a little sluggish and ploddy to me. At this current form I don’t think he’s the best at lightheavyweight. Lightheavyweight is also stacked with most of the best guys in the division being undefeated. They have to settle it in the ring.

Tournaments at 168 and 175 should be on the promoter priority list.

Dam bro you want a hard list.

5 Fastest All Time in no order:
Roy Jones
Hector Camacho
Medlrick Taylor
Muhammad Ali
Ray Leonard

5 Fastest Current:
Monster Inoue
Gary Russell
David Benavidez
Devin Haney
Jaron Ennis

Send Questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com

Tags:
User Comments and Feedback
Comment by Mindgames on 06-25-2019

[QUOTE=BillyBoxing;19849603]That's exactly what I thought. I hold breadman to a very high standard. I almost always agree with his picks and breakdowns. But here I just spit out my coffee, his McCall and Rahman arguments are meh, because Lewis beat…

Comment by angad10 on 06-24-2019

i love these mailbags and wait for them every week. i could listen to stephen talk about boxing for days! please keep them coming!

Comment by ShoulderRoll on 06-22-2019

Breadman left Texas off the list of places that produce great fighters . :pat: Hasn't he heard of Errol Spence, the Charlo brothers, and the Figueroa brothers? Mario Barrios? And that's just the current crop. If he wants to get…

Comment by Fire4231 on 06-22-2019

As always, great mail bag Bread!!! You open a true boxing aficionados eyes a bit wider with every mail bag. And congrats to J Rock on the come back I predicted post Charlo.

Comment by rrayvez on 06-22-2019

[QUOTE=Shadoww702;19849740]Damn! That’s a VERY good point??? That suks. What did they do refund your tickets or kept everything the same?[/QUOTE] everything was the same. Same tickets were used 2 weeks later.

ADD COMMENT VIEW COMMENTS (15)
Advertisement
Top Headlines
Elwin Soto Boxes Past Carlos Buitrago To Retain Title Devin Haney: I Have a Goal To Be The First Billionaire Boxer! Marlen Esparza Decisions Sulem Urbina Over Eight Rashid Kodzoev Takes Out Tamas Lodi in Five Rounds in Minsk Naoya Inoue, Jason Moloney - Set For Las Vegas Showdown Barrios vs. Karl, Magdaleno vs. Cruz - Weights Ewa Brodnicka Misses Weight, Title Only At Stake For Mikaela Mayer Regis Prograis, Juan Heraldez - Set For Battle Gervonta Davis, Leo Santa Cruz - Ready For War in Texas Inoue-Moloney ESPN+ Weigh-In Report From Las Vegas Weights: Murat Gassiev 230.6-Pounds, Nuri Seferi 225.1 Ryan Garcia vs. Luke Campbell - Undercard Information Gervonta Davis-Leo Santa Cruz Weigh-In Results From San Antonio LIVE STREAM: Gervonta Davis vs. Leo Santa Cruz - Weigh-In Gervonta Davis: My Arms Are Open If Floyd Wants To Work Corner Saturday Night Lee Selby, George Kambosos - Ready For Eliminator Savannah Marshall, Hannah Rankin - Set For Title Clash Michael Conlan Suffers ATFL Tear, Out For 8-12 Weeks BoxingScene.com's Television Pick of The Week - October 30 Usyk, Chisora - Face To Face For Halloween War Munguia: They Offered Us This Fight, We Said Yes Without Even Discussing It Usyk-Chisora, Kambosos-Selby Weigh-In Report From London Santa Cruz: I Wanted Davis Fight Because People Said I Was Scared, Always Getting Tune-Ups Wojcicki-Volny Title Eliminator Postponed Due To Mandatory Shutdown In Germany Devin Haney: I Agree With Floyd Mayweather - There Are Too Many Belts In Boxing Miguel Vazquez Reflects on Controversial Loss, Aims For World Title Run Lee Selby Rejects Kambosos' Version of What Happened in Their Sparring Sulem Urbina: I've Wanted To Fight Marlen Esparza For a Long Time Hunter: I Don't Think Fury Will Pick Me, I Pose Bigger Threat Than Wilder Will Fighting Leo Santa Cruz At 130 Pounds Be Worth The Weight For Gervonta Davis? Savannah Marshall, Hannah Rankin Trade Words, Promise a War Raeese Aleem Continues To Train, Hopes For Title Shot Next Mayweather: If Tank Gets Past Leo, 1 More Fight, Then Hopefully Teofimo Fight Can Be Made Toka Kahn-Clary Blasts Out Jonathan Perez in Two Rounds Roy Jones: I Wasn't Like Mayweather, I Went And Got Every Belt Possible Gervonta Davis-Leo Santa Cruz - Judges, Referee Revealed For Fight Jaime Munguia, Tureano Johnson - Ready For Showdown Mikaela Mayer, Ewa Brodnicka - Face-Off at Final Presser Naoya Inoue, Jason Moloney - Face-Off at Final Presser Garcia-Campbell Interim Title Fight Heads To Fantasy Spring Casino
Advertisement
Advertisement
Latest Forum Threads
Advertisement
Advertisement