By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling several topics, such as last Saturday's blockbuster between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGrgegor, the upcoming blockbuster between Canelo Alvarez and Gennady Golovkin, Gervonta Davis, Badou Jack, and more.
As usual, the Breadman's prophesies are worth its weight in gold! what a fight breakdown, seriously i think investment funds and asset management companies if they have you as consultant would make a killing going into gambling than picking stocks and bonds!
Cant help thinking though what this win for floyd even with the ko is a disaster fight in terms of legacy. Sure floyds fight plan was money but every boxing historian or even knowledgeable fans will never be convinced floyd wins 1 round against say Hearns or any other great over 5'10" who fights in the 15 round era. A 0-0 fighter outboxes Floyd and gets W if only he had more gas in the tank..... Floyd goes down 5-10 hell 20 notches below in the ATG pound for pound discussion because of this fight.
Bread’s Response: I’m not sure about that. I know some things about the stock market but not enough to venture off on my own that’s why I hired my man John Femiano who owns John Francis LLC to handle that for me. But I do handicap sports bets and I would be interested in being a fight consultant for heavy hitters.
Interesting you said that. I usually don’t pick Floyd hypothetically over the bigger more physical welterweights. Like Hearns, Robinson, Leonard, Trinidad and Curry. But what’s more interesting is I got a call from a boxing sharp last night. He told me that Floyd would have lost bad to Erislandy Lara anytime during the last 5 years and no wonder the fight was never made. I never gave the fight much thought but I do agree Lara would have been very troublesome for Floyd if Floyd was forced to fight off the front foot.
But in defense of Floyd I won’t knock him down notches historically because McGregor won some rounds. Floyd is 40. If you looked at my prediction I said that McGregor would win some rounds before Floyd figured him out. McGregor is not a boxer but he is a world class athlete. He’s very unconventional and there was a huge size difference. Floyd showed all time great poise under fire. His mental game is next level. I thought he went down 3-0 and there was no sign of panic from Floyd. Floyd is as clutch as one can be in a boxing ring.
Do you think Floyd carried McGregor? Was the fight fixed? I can’t really tell but it seemed like he turned it on demand. Also I can’t help but to think that if McGregor had a more experienced corner trainer that he could have done better? What do you think McGregor could have done in training to get a better result? Where does McGregor go from here?
Bread’s Response: I have seen some fixed fights in my life. One I am sure about, 2 I suspect strongly. I have rarely spoken on them publicly. But no way was this fight fixed. This is the reason why I don’t like when casual boxing fans have too large of a platform. They become Know It Alls and it irks my nerves. I will answer your question because I got 10 just like it, so I may as well answer one.
From my objective view I don’t think the fight was fixed. But I want your definition of fixed…..Do you mean McGregor laid down in round 10? Do you mean Floyd carried him until round 10? Do you mean Floyd told Conor to put on a good show then lay down in Round 10? Whenever someone comes up with a conspiracy theory I ask them for motive and process. Usually they can’t give me either.
Floyd has built his legacy on being undefeated. So he has no other objective but to win. And that is what happened. Both fighters were making loads of money, so unless someone gave them a 9 figure incentive to do something besides give their best I can’t see a fix.
Did Floyd carry McGegor? I keep hearing that he did. I don’t believe that. I think Floyd is a fighter who leaves no stone unturned in boxing. He doesn’t mess around with his winning chances. Here is what I think happened. Please read carefully.
Experienced veterans often times in the gym will allow the younger more intense fighter to burn themselves out. It happens in the gym everyday. The young national champion amateur will get out to a good start on the experienced vet. The vet will simply carry the young buck fast by holding his hands up high and walking him down. After about 4 rounds the young buck is burnt out and the vet takes over. Now sparring sessions usually average about 4-6 rounds. So there are times when the vet does not get to the young buck and the media gets wind of it and they make it out to be a big deal.
Watch Roberto Duran box Nigel Benn on youtube. Watch Tommy Hearns box Mark Breland on youtube. Watch Julio Cesar Chavez box Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya on youtube. You will see the same attack process Floyd used vs McGregor.
The one advantage the older fighter has over the younger one is his mental stability. He has the ability to carry him fast while being efficient on his energy use. I wouldn’t call this “carrying” McGregor in a sense of letting McGregor hang around for 10 rounds.
I think Mayweather used the best gameplan to win. He’s older, smaller and McGregor is unpredictable. Floyd is a careful fighter by nature. So he took his time. If you remember he did the same exact thing vs Zab Judah. I don’t think he carried Judah. He carried him fast early and allowed him to burn himself out.
McGregor actually fought a good fight. Real boxing people, if they are fair have to admit he did well. He has some skills. He may be unorthodox but he has some good boxing instincts. One of the reasons why I don’t think Floyd fixed the fight was McGregor kept spinning him. He kept ending up behind or to side of Floyd. Everyone in boxing knows rabbit punches can literally kill you. Floyd wouldn’t just let McGregor hit him in the back of the head if he could help it. But McGregor has decent footwork and very good hands. He knows how to manipulate positioning so he was able to do that. Watch the fight closely.
I think you’re contradicting yourself when you say Conor could have done better if he had a better corner. You just asked me was the fight fixed. If the fight was fixed what would it matter what his corner was doing?
I give Conor props for keeping his team that got him to this point. But I think there are things they missed. I’m not going to be overly critical because they got to highest level of boxing. Anyone can micromanage a critique. His corner did the best they could.
From a strictly boxing perspective I think Conor had a really good snake like jab. He extends his arms and it gets really close to his opponent. It’s like a major league pitcher who sneaks up about 5 ft close to the plate. His pitches will be harder to time. Conor could have used that jab more. Once fatigue set in Conor could have kept spinning Floyd. After getting behind Floyd he could have punched as long as it wasn’t in the back of the head and then clinched. This would have allowed him to get a breather or two. He really needed it.
I don’t know what McGregor did in training. But to go 10 rounds in your pro boxing debut is impressive in my opinion. It’s just not easy to do. McGregor is an MMA athlete. They can hold and lay on the ground for very long periods of times. When you are used to doing something, your body, heart rate and muscles acclimate to that specific thing. He hasn’t been boxing long enough and I don’t know if 1 camp can allow him to go 12 rounds strong. If you notice MMA is five, 5 minute rounds. Which is 25 minutes. Conor’s last stand was in the 8th round which is 24 minutes complete. See how that works.
I think Conor did the right thing by keeping his team. But brining in a good boxing coach just to advise and help him get through the fight as far as boxing adjustments could have been essential. I thought Conor won between 3-5 rounds. He won the first 3 and he fought hard enough to make 2 other rounds close swing rounds. If you win 6 rounds in a 12 round fight you get a draw. Floyd is a genius he didn’t carry him that close.
The novelty of McGregor’s fighting style will wear off. If he keeps fighting boxers, especially 154lbs young boxers he’s going to get hurt. They will pick up his awkwardness. Just like when an NFL player gets off big one year. The next season shows if they are the goods. Once the other teams defensive coaches get to plan, watch video and scheme for them. The same thing will happen to McGregor. If the money is too tempting and he needs to fight on. I say fight an undersized welterweight, who’s not a huge puncher.
By listening to your break down of the fight I finally won a Vegas sports bet with Floyd by tko and tko round 10. Did you think they stopped it too early?
Regarding Gervonta Davis, he didn't look sharp to me, he didn't work off the jab like he did versus Walsh and he missed weight for the second fight in a row but this time by two pounds. Is he as broner once said growing out of the weight or does he need to tighten up his diet, fitness regimen and overall discipline? Also at 5'5 is he too short for 135?
The sharpest fighter I saw on Saturday was Badou Jack. Beautiful punch variety at a distance and in the pocket. How would you pick jack vs Stevenson? I think he has the best style to challenge Ward as he is sharp smart long and punches with variety. How about Ward vs Jack?
One more for the ages Ward vs Spinks at 175?
Bread’s Response: Send me my check bro! You guys are always telling me you ride with my handicaps but no one is sending me a check. I got two kids in Catholic School I need all the coincintas I can get.
The stoppage was about right. I wouldn’t complain too much. I understand where Conor was coming from by saying he wasn’t down and he was clear headed but he started looking defenseless. It may have been a smidge early but I don’t have a problem with the stoppage.
Davis didn’t have a great performance but he still go the job done. I really don’t know what to make of it. I try not to judge things in small microcosms. Let’s see what he does moving forward.
Davis doesn’t look extremely cut when he makes 130. So I don’t understand why weight it’s such a problem. Maybe he has dense bones. I think he can compete at 135. 130 and 135 have some really tough fights for him. So moving up may not be easier. What I would be more concerned about was the shots he was being hit with. His opponent was much more competitive than expected. I still think Davis is one of the more talented fighters in boxing.
Badou Jack is the truth and one of my favorite fighters. He took a loss never complained. Took tough fights as an underdog and rock and rolled. Jack is a straight gun and he’s in every fight because of his heart, solid fundamentals and preparation.
Jack has a shot vs Stevenson. Stevenson would be the favorite but not by much. That’s a real fight. If Jack could find a way to neutralize Stevenson’s left hand he would probably win. The problem is no one has neutralized the shot. Tough, tough fight…
Ward is a more athletic and quicker version of Jack. He would be a step ahead of Jack all night. Jack’s style is similar to Ward’s except Ward is the more dynamic fighter. I think Ward would win a decision.
Michael Spinks is severely underrated. He’s one of the top 5 or 6 lightheavyweights ever in my opinion. Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford, Tommy Lougran, and Gene Tunney. You can put Spinks right their in that mix. I think Spinks the best lightheavyweight of the last 60+ years. Since Moore left the division. I rate him over Bob Foster. I think Spinks was more cerebral, on par as a puncher and was more consistent. Foster struggled too often with fighters Spinks would have beaten.
This is a very tough fight for me to call. Spinks and Ward both have great jabs. Both are very cerebral. Spinks is a very physical man at 175lbs. Obviously so is Ward. Both are Gold Medalist and have that international pedigree. Spinks is 6’2 ½ and his reach is significant. It’s somewhere around 76 or 77 inches. Kovalev was able to trouble Ward with a good jab and nice right hand. Spinks’s jab and right hand was just as good and his left hook was a boom and much better. Plus he has more length than Kovalev.
Spinks greatest gift was his awkwardness and sudden punching ability. He doesn’t fight at a normal cadence. His kos were sudden. Youtube his fights vs Marvin Johnson, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, David Spears and Vonzell Johnson. The knockdown or knockout blows sort of surprise you even if you know what you’re about to see.
Ward on the other hand can also shock blow you. Ask Chad Dawson, the 1st knockdown came out of no where. Andre Ward is one of the better all around fighters I have ever seen. He’s just about equal in fighting off the front foot and back foot. He’s great at grinding on the inside and as well as boxing from the outside.
This is a really tough fight to call for me. The guess here says Spinks wins the 1st one because of his length and shocking power. Ward adjust and comes back to win the rematch.
First of all, thank you for all your great boxing analysis and observations - they are truly enlightening.
I have two questions for you:
First one is I often don't understand why so many boxing critics put some of those early 20 century boxing greats so high on their all-time pound-for-pound list. Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson - they are great fighters but in modern view their skills seem somehow clumsy. You might call this blasphemy but I think aged light heavyweight Tommy Hearns would beat Jack Dempsey any day! What do you think?
My second question is about Andre Ward and his possible move to cruiserweight division. How do you see his chances against Olexandr Usyk? Will Andre have enough tools in his box to shut down all the creative output of Usyk?
Thanks a lot,
Bread’s Response: I think you’re very wrong my friend. Sam Langford and Jack Johnson don’t look clumsy to me. They look skilled and smooth and confident. The problem is their styles are products of the era. Just like as time moved on you saw fighters hold their hands like Robinson and Charles in the 40s. Go forward a little more you see the hands and feet move like Ali and Leonard in the 70’s and 80’s. It’s just the times and the non HD film.
Jack Dempsey would hurt Tommy Hearns bad. He’s too strong of a man.
His bone density is different. Dempsey could have never made 147lbs. Hearns was able to despite being Dempsey’s height. He would brawl Hearns and ko him. The Dempsey of the early 1920s would be too much. He looked like Tyson before he lost a step. Don’t let that bad film quality fool you.
The reason why fighters of the early 20th century are rated so high because they excelled under more harsh circumstances. They fought more rounds. The equipment was shoddy. The recovery was basic. There was no boxrec or youtube used to study or duck opponents. If you look close from a technical point of view not athletic point of view, Boxing has not evolved since Joe Louis’s era. He’s still the best puncher because of technique. From an athletic aspect boxing has not evolved since the 80s. Watch Leonard vs Hearns 1 then watch Thurman vs Garcia. Tell me the difference?
Man you guys are tough on Ward. Usyk is no joke bro. He won a Gold Medal at heavyweight in 2012. He’s southpaw. He’s 6’3 and he has a reach that’s almost 80 inches. Did I say he has very nimble feet and he’s a volume puncher. Ward is better in a p4p sense but that’s an awfully tough fight to take at this moment. I won’t break it down because I don’t think the fight is feasible. If Ward were to take on such a tough style he may as well fight Anthony Joshua for 25 million! You just don’t see great fighters giving up 25lbs of natural weight to a guy who can box as good as Usyk….come on man.
Ok Bread, here's the nightmare scenario. Mac throws a one hitter out of nowhere and kos Floyd cold. Then calls out a slow as molasses PAC by the time they fight, and beats him bad. Then Mac retires after anointing himself king of boxing. Do you think he gets to HOF with those two performances against the 2 legends? Haha.
Benjamin from Singapore
Bread’s Response: Whoa Ben! You have a wild imagination my brother.
I'm drunk in a club at 2am, yet you're on my mind, Bread, let's not analyze that one, daddy issues:)
Irish, second time writer
1. I was a UFC fan before I became a hardcore boxing fan (sacrilege), I would love to see mixed cards. Boxers vs boxers & mma vs mma, not crossover fights, but crossover cards. Current politics wouldn't allow it, but something tells me, first big promoter with the balls to make it happen, could profit. Is there a market?
2. Did Mayweather avoid Kahn? I wanted that fight so bad as a Kahn fan. Yes, the guy is a bozo, but he's an incredibly exciting fighter. I feel May kinda avoided it(speed), but, I also think Roy Jones avoided Steve Collins, so my credibility ain't in a good place. Heart over head:(
My inner, classless McGregor has come through:)
You're The Ultimate Bread
Bread’s Response: Aw man I’m flattered. But don’t think about me at 2am anymore lol. Pull a nice looking chick and take her back to your room.
There is a market but I don’t want it. I think we should leave it alone and let both markets thrive.
I don’t know if Mayweather avoided Khan. But the fans voted they wanted the Khan fight and Mayweather fought Maidana. I won’t say Floyd ducked Khan because Khan never built up enough momentum to force the fight. He always took losses at opportune times. But I will say he would have been a serious challenge. The Khan than fought Devon Alexander and Luis Collazo will give anyone hell who is not hurting him. Floyd usually outboxes everyone but Khan is one of the rare fighters who doesn’t get outboxed.
If you look close lots of natural boxers sort of strayed away from Khan. Juan Manuel Marquez and Tim Bradley never went near him either. For as vulnerable as Khan seems to be, he’s really tough to win rounds against.
I’m the biggest Roy Jones fan there is. Historians tell me I overrate him all the time. But I just love the guy. And I’m a fair man. There are 3 fights I wish Roy would have made and none of them are Darius Michalchewski. I wanted the Michalchewski fight but no other American star of Jones’s caliber would have been expected to go on the road and fight Michalchewski. Michalchewski never made his name over here and it hurts his status. I give him more of the blame…
But Nigel Benn severely hurt Jones’s good friend Gerald McClellan. I think Jones should have made that fight. For many reason Jones has to make that fight. Benn was a killer and not only had he beat McClellan but he came over here and kod Iran Barkley. You have to find a way to make that fight. I don't know if Benn wanted to fight Roy, but I was so hurt after what happened to the G-Man. I still can't watch the last few rounds of that fight.
Michael Nunn. For some reason Nunn’s style made Jones a little hesitant I suppose. I think Roy would have beaten him especially around the time the fight was supposed to happen 1998. I don’t know all of the details but something bizarre happened with the WBC. Jones won his WBC title back from Montell Griffin in 1997. The next thing you know Michael Nunn and Graciano Rocchigiani were fighting for Roy’s vacant title. Then without beating Rocchigiani the winner of the vacant title fight, Roy fought Lou Del Valle in a unification match with the WBC and WBA belts on the line. Del Valle was the WBA champ. The WBC just took the belt from Rocchigiani without him losing and gave it back to Roy Jones. The bizarre thing is Michael Nunn was Jones’s mandatory which started the whole mess. Jones has a history and of defending against his mandatories, he loved his belts. For some reason he didn’t vs Nunn. I give Roy “the Untouchable” Jones the benefit of doubt even in this but these are facts….Rocchigiani won a huge lawsuit vs the WBC. The whole thing was weird.
The last of the 3 is your guy Steve Collins. Collins had reinvented himself at supermiddleweight. He went on a great career best run and retired on a great win streak. During this streak he defeated both Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn twice apiece. There were talks of Roy fighting Collins and Collins seemed to be begging for the fight. It never happened and Collins retired. I’m glad you used the word avoided because I don’t think Roy ducked Collins. But Roy catches lots of flack from historians for not fighting any of his European counterparts at 168 and 175. Michalchewski and Henry Maske were at 175. Eubank, Benn and Collins were at 168. Maske had lost to Hill so I give him a pass for that. Michalchewski tried to act as though he was the A side. I give him a pass for that. Eubank admitted Roy would have beaten him and I thought Benn won his rematch with Eubank so I give him a pass for that. I already stated my claim on Benn. Collins was marketable, he beat both Benn and Eubank. And he was in the mix. By all promotional standards that fight appeared to be a gold mine….
I don't give Roy the crap that historians give him. He fought Bernard Hopkins and James Toney in his 1st two title tries. I never say he ducked anyone. But these were viable fights...
Hey Bread, I look forward to catching your mailbags and if I miss my phone bill when times get tough and run out of Data I always make sure to play catch-up at a later date. A couple of questions.
Do you think, in hindsight, that Mayweather/McGregor was actually a bad thing for boxing as Oscar repeatedly said it would be leading up to the fight? I don't view it as such. I think Floyd is correct in his statement of giving fans what they wanted. Albeit, these were mostly bar-going "fight fans" and not knowledgeable boxing followers but still, it entertained. I don't know about $99.95 entertainments worth but still, as worth-while as Cotto/Kamegai.
How do you rate Money now, if he were to stay retired I'm curious? I believe top three greatest defensive pugilists of all time. Top twenty of all time. Best of this era? I think not. He certainly wasn't a fan favorite nor did he have an engaging style. I remember reading somewhere that modern fighters such as Floyd, B-Hop & Ward what with their technical prowess and their win-by-any-means-necessary approach, even if it makes for a boring fight is bad for the sport because fighters of days gone by never took that attitude.
Also, c'mon man. With a proper training camp i think Malignaggi decisions McGregor. I don't see any other outcome bruh.
Lastly, speaking of the Magic Man, who are your personal favorite fighters with particularly low knockout percentages who managed to somehow enjoy industrious careers?
Blessed be to you and yours.
Bread’s Response: I don’t think Mayweather vs McGregor was bad for boxing. It brought boxing mainstream attention and the boxer won. The only thing that annoys me is all of these idiots with a platform who try to influence the masses. I had a lady sports whatever in the market try to tell me about body punching the other day. I can’t freaking take it.
Why are you guys demoting Floyd historically because he went 10 rounds went McGregor? I think Floyd is an all time great fighter. One of the 25 best fighters ever. Some people tell me I overrate him, so tell me I underrate him. But I think top 25 is fair and it could be higher. And nothing from the McGregor fight takes away from that.
Malignaggi opened as a -180 favorite over McGregor. The oddsmakers in Vegas are like prophets. That line tells me the fight will be competitive.
Im interested to hear your thoughts as to what Floyd (and his father) really think his legacy is within the storied history of boxing, not business, but boxing? I have a sneaking suspicion they think one thing and boast another in public.
Please check out this quote from Sr. regarding McGregor;
“All the good was about the money for him. Because it can’t be about no glory in what he did, because what he did was a failure. Let me tell you something. If he keeps fighting, doing that thing right there with that boxing right there - somebody gonna kill him.”
Floyd Sr's use of the word glory is interesting.
Depends what he expected McGregor should be glorified for?
Certainly he didn't back up pre-fight boasts but that was just smoke. Does he think we be glorifying a defensive master? An undefeated record? A smart game plan ? A big pay check? These are all things Floyd deserved credit for.
......but boxing glory is about a fighter that gives ass to get ass!! Floyd always made em miss but he didn't always make em pay. They've largely duped joe casual but real fans know GLORY is reserved for the killers.
I think Floyd and his Dad are acutely aware of the difference between how he's boxed the last 10 years and real killers like Louis, SRL, Hearns, Toney etc. They made a reasonable choice for jr to switch to a safety first pot shot offense. The problem is the rest of the field not having the skill to force floyd to have to ramp up and vary his offense to win rounds.
Just like Floyd in many of his fights, McGregor never intended to blast out his opponent (which was the right move). He was never going to stop him. He had a good strategy, maybe could have gone to the body more early but he gassed which is totally understandable.
Boxing/pawing on the outside is basically how Fury won the HW championship of the world against Wlad. Wlad just didnt have the sense/balls to walk Fury down like Floyd did.
As far as Mcgregor getting killed. Yes if he fought a puncher his own size (ie MW) he gets f'd hard. Totally moot because of course he never would and that is fine.
Floyd earned his money and his wins but fell short of true boxing GLORY and i think he knows it and thats partly why he isn't playing the heal anymore.
Bread’s Response: I find it interesting that you guys really hung Floyd’s legacy on this fight. I think Floyd and his dad think he’s the TBE. I think they really believe that and so does some experts. I don’t have a problem with it because I think he’s a great enough fighter to be in the argument. He has made a case for himself although I rate Sugar Ray Robinson as the best ever.
Floyd did what he had to do to get his Ws at every stage of his career. He showed glory in giving Maidana and Castillo deserved rematches. He showed guts in taking on Corrales when he did. He showed some matchmaking ability in taking on Pacquiao and Mosley when he did. He really did it all and he literally outsmarted the process that ate up many great fighters. Some people get angry at him because he didn’t suffer the common fate because of his matchmaking. I don’t get angry with him at all. I just rate guys like Robinson and Ali ahead of him because of it.
But all in all Floyd is special and if you had a son, you would want your son to apply defense like Floyd does. You would also want your son to make the kind of money Floyd did... You wouldn’t be so ramped up on how exciting he was…..so……
GGG + Canelo = some great action. Stoppage or distance?
Best commentators in boxing are?
Best fight in boxing that should of been made but never happened is?
Bread’s Response: Distance.
Best commentator I like Max Kellerman. But there are a few guys who I like to listen to do fights…
There are many great fights that should have been made. I say Ray Leonard vs Aaron Pryor. It almost got made twice. There is a myth that Leonard ducked him but he didn’t. He offered him the twice fight. One of the offers can be verified on youtube after the Lenox Blackmoore fight. Nevertheless it would have been everything you want in a fight. Athleticism, two killers who can box and punch, high contact guys in their prime for legacy. I think Leonard would have kod him but he would have had to, because the Hawk came to die. He forced his will on you.
Have you or have any of your readers noticed, in the very beginning of round 9? Legal body shot on the belt, right hand from Conner had Floyd hurt, staggered to corner as Conner leaned on Floyd's back, Referee Byrd stepped in from all the way across other corner to warn Conner of leaning and low blow due to Floyd's complaining.
If Conner didn't lean on Floyd's back and created space while continuing throwing body shots, I believe Floyd goes down, he was hurt legit. My point, please tell me if you agree or disagree, the body shot to start round 9 was legal, had Floyd seriously hurt and no replay was provided???
Why has no one noticed this or discussed? Please watch first 8 seconds of round 9 in slow motion. Body shot was on the belt. Floyd's body language tells you he was hurt. Every time I've seen Floyd or most fighters get hit low, they go down at the spot of the blow.
Thanks for making others aware of this crucial moment in the bout that has no recognition thus far post bout.
Bread’s Response: What are you suggesting? I do remember the sequence and the shot was borderline from what I can remember but the angle wasn't the best. Floyd looked discomforted but he went on to have his best round of the fight. I’m trying to figure out which way you are leaning on the conspiracy theory. I respect your eye for detail because there was a blow exactly when you said it happened but I’m unclear where you are going with this……Send in another comment so we can see where you’re going.
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