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Daily Bread Mailbag: Golovkin/Ward, Race Debate, More

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards naming some of the fighters he would like to train, fighters who could beat Gennady Golovkin, worth of Ike Ibeabuchi, Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr., Golovkin vs, Andre Ward, the race debate and more.

Hope your having fun in camp.

I like to make things difficult for a man of your knowledge. I was gonna ask who would you choose to train in world boxing and why but I want you to pick from the hot divisions.

122lbs? 126lbs? 140lbs? 147lbs? 154lbs? And why?

Other then J Rock who would you pick to train to beat Golovkin in a year time and how?

Charlo bros? Lara? Canelo? Andrade?

Cotto? Quillin? Jacobs? Eubank? Andy Lee?

DeGale? Andre Dirrell?

I love a masterpiece performance in boxing. What are your top5? Mine off the top of my head. Lewis vs Holyfield. Mayweather vs Gatti. Naz vs Robinson. McCallum vs Michael Watson. Rigo vs Donaire

Bread’s Response: There have been so many masterpieces…..Mayweather vs Corrales was good a big fight performance as you can witness.

Whitaker vs Ramirez 2. Pete was just so on that night and his punch count seemed increase just to take the question out of the fight.

Pacquiao vs De La Hoya. I don’t care what people say about Oscar being weight drained. Pacquiao jumped 2 weight divisions to take on a legitimately great fighter in a fight where he was the underdog and he was flat out untouchable.

Buddy McGirt vs Simon Brown. This performance is very underrated. McGirt’s technical precision was brilliant. Could be the best performance of the 90s.

Sal Sanchez vs Danny Lopez 1 and 2. Just watch.

122-Stephen Fulton. Young kid from Phildaelphia. 8-0 as a pro. Amateur National Champion. He has the instincts and natural stamina I love to see in a fighter. I would  be able to turn him into a world champion without a doubt.

126-Lomachenko. I feel he’s a special talent but there are some mistakes he makes. He’s only operating at about 85% of his capacity.

140-Terrance Crawford. He’s my kind of fighter

147-Manny Pacquiao. Love Manolo but I don’t like his new temperament and fight strategies.

154-no one.

James Degale. He has the size and the know how to pull it off. Degale is extremely underrated. Degale might be able to pull it off right now, he may not need a year.

What's good bread hope all is well. I need you to rewrite history for me. I will give you 5 scenarios and you tell me how boxing history would have been rewritten. 1 the top rank and gbp cold war never existed. 2 tony ayala never goes to prison and he and davey moore fought instead of the duran fight. 3 mike tyson  And ike lbeabuchi never went to prison. 4 Floyd and manny had fought in 2010. 5 roy jones jr stayed at heavyweight after the ruiz fight and fought tyson, holyfield, bryd and toney? Lasty what are your thoughts on iran Barkleys place in boxing history? Most ppl regard him as a solid generational talent in the gade rosado mode, but he has wins over an alltime great in hearns and was a 3 division champ. Guy's  like gatti get revered for being blood and guts type fighters but iran seems to be labeled a very good journey man. I think historically he is underrated. Peace and enjoy your holidays.

Bread’s Response: Had Top Rank and Golden Boy never went to war we would have seen much better fights from 2009 til the present. Boxing would have flourished more during those years.

Tony Ayala would have been a major player in boxing’s 2nd best decade ever. He would have been the 1st Mexican superstar at the higher weight classes. I think he would have beat Davey Moore.

Mike Tyson would have lost to Evander Holyfield in 91. He would have got some things done from 91-95. But he would have probably had to fight Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe during that time. I think he would have won some and lost some during those years.

Ike Ibeabuchi had a chance to be really special. I thought he would have defeated both Klitschko Bros during the time and he would have been 50/50 with Lennox Lewis. But it’s hard to tell because mental coping skills are important in boxing. So I’m not going to overrate him on what might have been. What happened , happened.

I don’t feel like reliving the Floyd vs Manny thing. All I will say is we would have seen a better more significant fight in 2010. Manny’s drop off from that time to 2015 is why the fight wasn’t as good as it should have been.

Roy Jones stays at heavyweight he goes down as the best fighter in the history of boxing. I think he made the biggest in boxing history.

I don’t believe Barkley is a HOF but he is underrated. He did more than Gabe Rosado… I think he’s more of a Glen Johnson type than a Gabe Rosado type. He was an excellent fighter in an extremely tough era.

Here comes the rant!  I'm about to vent some frustration with the boxers and the fans of this sh*tty era we are in.  I wrote on Twitter that it is the weakest minded boxing era of all time!  It truly is.  Contenders refuse to challenge the top guys in their division, champions fight the easiest opposition possible. Promoters make up 5 stupid fights for 1 good match up.  And when I say good, it is a good that is accompanied with low expectations.  My 5-1 ratio is probably too kind as well.  We say boxing is not dead but I love boxing and defended my sport for a long time.  Yet, I ordered my first UFC fight last weekend.  It is not dead but promoters and fighters are doing a fantastic job at injecting a slow release amount of poison into the boxing stream.

I don't remember the last time I had goose bumps watching a fight.  I don't remember the last time the hype of a fight delivered the promised drama.  Which fight will we talk about in 20 years from now?  We will be reminiscing about fights of the 70s-80s??

This is the weakest minded boxing era of all time.  How come so few middleweights want to have a crack at GGG.  How come so little self belief?  I hate to bring it up, but I think Floyd has a lot to do with the behaviour of the fighters.  Young fighters looked up to him, the way he managed his career and try to somehow copy what he did.  This is all I will say about "you know who"

Now this weekend, there is a big "middleweight" fight.  I put it on quote because these two guys have absolutely no intention to fight the real middleweight champion (GGG).  If GGG waits to fight the winner, he won't fight for a long time.  They are not fighting for the middleweight championship.  It is without a doubt a good fight but not a middleweight championship fight.  I don't want to drop names but we know and we can read between the lines when fighters do backflips to avoid a good challenge.  I understand boxers want to have all their faculties when they retire.  Boxing is dangerous.  So is football, ice hockey and rugby.  Could you imagine if no one wanted to challenge the Patriots?  Or "we are not ready yet to play against the Chicago Black Hawks".  No other sport have this "avoid the challenge" attitude like boxing has at the moment.  It is a big problem.  Also, if your main concern is to come out with all your faculties, pianist or guitarist is probably a safer career choice than being a boxer.  You made the choice, assume the risks! 

Boxing will never die but it is in bad shape and I think I know why.  There is way too much emphasis on the money.  There is too much guaranteed money given for sh*tty fights where win-lose or draw, the money is the same.  Boxers are laughing.  Now, because promoters love their money but also have to pay millions, they are going to put sh*tty fights on the undercard so they fill up the space and make their share of revenue.  Bad combination.  Now we have a lame undercard and a main event with two boxers/businessmen who busted our chops with long winded negotiations regarding the order of the walk-out and presentation, size of the ring, percentage of purse, date, time, gloves, jock and much much more.  And when these guys decide to fight, it is because the money is too good to overlook, not because they want to challenge themselves.  Obviously, it is generally speaking.  There are still many warriors in there.  But I cannot recollect a softer era.  Champions milk their titles as much as they can and the guys in line are happy to cruise along especially if the champion is a bit scary.  Let's wait him out.  Can you imagine the echo of the cheers of joy if GGG was leaving the division?

Now for the fans.  Social media is the express train for the miserable human beings.  The ones that salivate when a boxer get knocked out or failed at trying something spectacular.  The ones that suddenly don't feel so lonely when someone LOSE.  Let's rejoice, Pacquiao got knocked the f** out by Marquez kind of attitude.  This is also detrimental to boxing.  Fans whinge all the time but when finally they have something good happening they don't even see it as it is.  I talked about David Lemieux calling out GGG.  Only a few fans acknowledged that.  The rest called him a bum!  They didn't respect his courage and audacity.  Can you imagine if all fighters had that attitude?  That would be awesome!  We would be at our 3rd Stevenson-Kovalev fight instead of a Twitter b*tch talk contest between the 2 of them.  Lemieux truly believed he could knock him out!  Even in interview after the fight back in Canada, he was saying he still believes he can and will beat him.  ZERO fear.  If he is right or wrong is not the point.  The point is we don't have many "real" fighters at the moment.  We have businessmen and it is massive issue.  We have a big fight this weekend and I am not excited at all.  I'm not sure why either.  Maybe it is because I am worn out with all the BS of the last few years.  I should be pumped but I am not.  I don't know what will need to happen to turn that corner but something has to change.  Relying on the fact that boxing has been there forever isn't enough to guarantee it will still be there in 50 years from now.  Do we need to put more money at stake in a fight.  Less guaranteed money?  A bonus for performance/KO?  Do we finally need to change the infinite amount of champions per weight class for 1 belt only?  I am not sure what needs to happen but if I become less interested with the sport, I am sure there is many more who feel like me.  How do you move from this weak minded boxing era?  What do you think?

Mike Lafleur

Bread’s Response: I happen to agree with you. This is without a doubt the weakest minded era and the weakest era in boxing history. Because of the resources that today’s fighters have you would assume they would be better prepared. But instead they use these resources to avoid challenges. It’s absolutely disgusting, the lying, the avoiding and the cheating that goes on behind the scene.

I think the difficult part for fighters who don’t mind challenging themselves is  common sense kicks in for them and their teams. They say to themselves why go be a tough guy and run through a brick wall to get 1 million dollars, when my contemporary and counter part gets to “manage” and play business man and get the same million dollars and status. It’s extremely difficult. Someone at the top is going to have to make everyone fight and make no exceptions. That’s the only way things will change.

Hey Stephen, hope all is well man.

I wanted to touch upon the whole GGG/Ward situation. For the life of me I can't understand why GGG isn't being given the same opportunity by some fans as Ward was to clean out his respective division before moving up. Ward won a tournament at 168 and was subsequently declared the best Super Middleweight in the world. GGG hasn't even won the linear Middlweight title yet and is being labeled a "ducker" for not taking on a dude who has been inactive for years, still wants tune-up fights, hasn't made 168 in years and may not be able to anymore, and is now finally moving up to 175. Both Ward and GGG were willing to face Chavez Jr. for the same reason. He represented a lower risk and a higher reward than fighting a bigger, more dangerous opponent for less money. For Ward it was Kovalev and for GGG it was Ward. The difference is, GGG has not faced name opponents who are going into the Hall of Fame (such as Canelo who is also the linear champ) and thus built a legit Hall of Fame career. Ward has. GGG hasn't cleaned out his respective division. Ward has. It's a timing issue.

If GGG had already done all those things and Ward was active and fighting at 168 and he still was unwilling to face him but willing to face others at that weight, then it's a clear duck. If Ward was unwilling to move up and face Kovalev after what he has done at 168 that would be a clear duck too. He has wasted years of his prime. He's an amazing fighter and I am glad he is finally moving up to 175 and will fight Kovalev next year. Let's give GGG the same opportunity. Given GGG's level of activity, it will only take about a year for him to hold all the belts before moving up. If he fights Canelo next May and then the winner of Lee/Saunders (or the reverse order) by this time next year he will be the undisputed Middleweight Champ. Then he can move up to 168. By then, Ward will have fought Kovalev and the winner of that fight can face GGG in a super fight at a catchweight if agreed upon. Does this make sense? I would like your thoughts. Thanks!

Darrell La Montre

Bread’s Response: I agree 100% with everything you said. I honestly don’t have a problem with a fighter not moving up ever. I don’t get this move up requirement. The lunch pale legend who always gets brought up around the camp fire is Marvin Hagler and he stayed at the same weight for 14 years. If a fighter can make the weight, he should be able to fight in weight at peace. I just feel he should take on the best available contender consistently if he’s the champion.

Now here is where we disagree. Going by your statement I assume you feel that Team GGG is not ready for the Ward fight at this moment. I agree again. But if they aren’t ready then they should just stop lying to the public acting like they are ready. Usually when something is simple and it’s made to look complicated, then deception is in effect. Simplicity +Complication= Deception.

Common Sense has to kick in with the fans. The GGG vs Andre Ward debate is always raging and I just don’t get why so many fans allow themselves to be deceived. Team GGG does NOT want the fight right now. Think about it and ask yourself who has the most to lose? They have invested millions in Golovkin. Why would they put him in a fight with a fighter who has been away from the public eye, who happens to be a division above, and if we went by mathematical probability would beat their star.

The fans and the media are predictable. They side with who they like more instead of who is correct. GGG is more liked than Andre Ward at this time.

GGG is willing to face certain fighters at 168 but not Andre Ward at 168. You know why because his team knows he can’t beat him. That’s the bottom line. So they insert different variables that they know will be a deal breaker instead of a deal maker. They are giving Ward the ultimate compliment by saying fight us at 164 but they were willing to take on future HOF Carl Froch at 168. The threat level of losing is different. People keep bringing up A side vs B side. Who’s a draw and who is not? In this case it’s about risk. Andre Ward is the ultimate threat to GGG at this moment and they know it! GGG also does not need Ward right now because he is a middleweight and he has options.

But make no mistake if Team GGG wanted the fight right now, the fight would be done right now. You know why Sergey Kovalev is so easy to negotiate with….Because he doesn’t have the options that GGG has and his team does not promote and market him the same way. So Kovalev takes every tough fight on the table, even if it’s in his opponent’s backyard.  Most times why a fight is not made is common sense….

What's up Bread?

What threat if any do the following top fighters at 154 and 160 pose to GGG?:

1. Quillin-Jacobs winner

2. Lee-Saunders winner

3. Canelo Alvarez

4. Esrilandy Lara

Also would you advise J-Rock to take the fight in 2016 if offered? (Just a yes or no would suffice as I wouldn't expect you to elaborate beyond that)


William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: All fighters are threatening at the top level. But I think the most threatening out of who you named is Canelo Alvarez. For the life of me I can’t understand why people think he’s so upset down vs GGG. I’m a huge Golovkin fan. I think he’s a HOF in the making and I believe he’s the real deal. But he’s just a man. He’s not a machine.

I think Canelo is the biggest threat out of who you named. His team is making a mistake by insisting on this 155lb new weight limit. I think it hurts him. He’s not tall but he’s extremely dense. He has a huge head, chest and back. He would be fresher and stronger at 160. You can tell by how high he rehydrates after these weigh ins. Canelo will have a distinct hand speed advantage over GGG. Canelo loves when fighters attack him. He has the best punch selection in boxing. He has a solid chin and he takes punishment well. GGG is not the hardest guy in the world to hit and no one goes to his body. Canelo is extremely hard to get a decision against. He has received the benefit of the doubt in almost all of the close rounds of the fights he’s been in. And let me add he’s 8 years younger. I can’t believe people assume GGG will slaughter him.

I believe the fight is only 65/35 in GGGs favor. I would favor him to win because of his jab. But my eyes tell me Team Alvarez does not have to shy away from GGG.

What's up Bread?

Was there anything about Canelo-Cotto that surprised you? I was impressed with how Canelo handled Cotto's jab along with his use of range and defense.  What are your thoughts?

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: First off I still say Cotto’s run at middleweight was legit. Cotto was in terrific condition and he took some big shots from a bigger fighter and he didn’t go down.

I wasn’t surprised by anything but I am impressed as to what Canelo is. He has really grown as a fighter and he’s true to himself. Canelo knows what he is. He knows he won’t be Julio Cesar Chavez or Ruben Olivares. He also knows he won’t be nimble like Sal Sanchez. So he’s evolved into a stalker counterpuncher much like Danny Garcia is. Neither guy walks you down with volume. They make their presence felt usually in the center of the ring, they stalk you but they don’t overly commit and when you try to fend them off they open up like SOBs. Watch both guys closely. Danny is more of a slugger with it and Canelo is more of a boxer with it. But overall their styles are similar.

Canelo is slightly better at it because he has really good defensive reflexes. Canelo slips and parries punches really good. I was impressed at how Canelo was able to outbox Cotto in exchanges without pressing him to the ropes and overwhelming like say a Margarito did. Canelo beat Cotto in the center of the ring for the most part.

You had a pretty heated debate on Twitter a few days ago about certain nationalities/races having trouble with others. I find it interesting, would you care to elaborate?

Bread’s Response: Sure. People get offended only because their race, nationality or ethnicity that they belong to or want to win is the one who they feel is being slighted. I think that’s where the heat from the tweets came in. But I don’t mind going into it all. First let me say. Last week someone asked me who would win between Jarret Hurd and Frank Galarza. My reply was if two prospects fight on even terms I will take the prospect from DMV over the prospect from NY. No one got offended. My reason for saying it was there are regional tendencies that I see from fighters from certain areas. Just there are ethnical tendencies I have seen from certain fighters.

Now for Canelo. What I said was there are a lot of 5’10-6’ athletic urban/black kids on the PBC that Canelo would have to fight if Golden Boy was still doing business with Haymon. People became upset and I don’t get why. Then they started bringing up GGG who had nothing to do with the comment.

Here is the thing. Canelo Alvarez is a GUN. He’s a great young champion and I have all the respect in the world for him. But he has trouble with movement. He doesn’t want to have to go get a fighter. He wants a guy to come to him so he can run off his beautiful combinations. But he still took on the likes of Floyd Mayweather, Austin Trout and Erislandy Lara. So he gets full credit for that.

But there is no coincidence that those were his 3 toughest fights. 2 controversial decisions and 1 loss decisive loss…..My point was for some reason Mexican fighters have trouble with black fighters, even when the Mexican fighter is better overall. Here several examples throughout history.

The best two Mexican fighters ever are Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez. Some may not remember but Sanchez’s two toughest fights were against Azumah Nelson and a kid named Patrick Ford. Ford may be unknown to you guys but he was an extremely tall Black kid from the islands I believe. Ford was about 16-0 when he fought the all time great Sanchez but he held him to a majority decision. Check boxrec and watch the fight on youtube, he gave Sanchez all types of fits.

Julio Cesar Chavez had 4 controversial fights before he really slid off the cliff of his prime. Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor, Pernell Whitaker and Frankie Randall. They were all against black fighters. Each of these fights was extremely controversial and Chavez could have conceivably lost all 4.

Marco Antonio Barrera is a better fighter than Junior Jones. But for some reason Jones had Barrera’s ticket. Erik Morales is better than Zahir Raheem but for some reason Raheem had his ticket. Juan Manuel Marquez’s first shot at a world title was against Freddie Norwood on a Floyd Mayweather undercard. And guess what, he lost a unanimous decision. Marquez seems to be able to fight Pacquiao well. Pacquiao beats Tim Bradley 18-20 out of 24 rounds boxed. But Bradley goes and outboxes Marquez…

Shane Mosley has made his name on significant victories over Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Margarito and Fernando Vargas. I can really go on and on.

I have talked to matchmakers off the record and they have told me personally they don’t match young Mexican stars with Black fighters on even terms.

But here is the flip side. Here is the rock, paper, scissors of this thing. Black fighters have trouble with more athletic black fighters or bigger ones and with Eastern Euro styles. And the Easter Euro styles have trouble with the Mexican style of crowding and grinding. For example Shane Mosley. He can beat Oscar and Vargas. But Floyd, Winky Wright and Vernon Forest take him to school every time.

Vasyl Lomachenko can beat Gary Russell who is much better than Orlando Salido but he can’t beat Salido. Why because most of the Easter Euro guys don’t fight a crowding inside fight. They can break a long range rhythm better.

GGG and Kovalev are murder when you are going away from them. They can handle boxers. They have handled the black athletic fighters they have faced. There times of trouble have been when you crowd them. GGG vs Kasim Ouma and Willie Monroe. He won those fights but those are the sticking points. Kovalev vs Darnell Boone. Those fights weren’t against Mexican fighters but the inside fighting and the crowding and pushing them backwards seem more effective than moving away from them.

Wladimir Klitschko has been kod everytime a fighters has attacked him violently with commitment. No one can tell me Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster are better than Chris Byrd….But Wlad does not handle that style well.

Kostya Tszyu the best and most known fighter from the old USSR. Was murder against boxers. He beat Vernon Forest in the World Championships in 91. He destroyed Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell. But he came apart twice when he was crowded. He didn’t lose to Mexican fighters in Ricky Hatton and Vince Phillips but I suspect if he had to face elite level Mexican fighters in their primes he would have had fits. The style..

Some trolls and idiots on twitter took it and ran with it. But I think I have showed enough examples to prove my point. Nothing is 100%. There is no superior race in boxing. But region, styles, races, nationalities and ethnicities play a huge part in matchmaking.

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User Comments and Feedback
Comment by aboutfkntime on 11-29-2015

[QUOTE=techliam;16271818]Um nationalism and racism are totally different things. Racism is physical discrimination (usually skin colour), nationalism is discrimination between state allegiances. The Chinese supporting their olympic athletes is a form of nationalism. Discriminating against someone because they 'look' chinese would…

Comment by SterlingStained on 11-27-2015

humans are inherently racist. humans are involved in boxing. hence racism's presence in boxing.

Comment by wlliam on 11-27-2015

[QUOTE=Deevel916;16271053]Rooting for a fighter from your country or nationality is MUCH different than what you just said though! Are the chinese racist because they root for their olympic athletes? Are the Russians, Americans, Australians, people of Botswana, etc racists because…

Comment by techliam on 11-27-2015

[QUOTE=Deevel916;16271053]Rooting for a fighter from your country or nationality is MUCH different than what you just said though! Are the chinese racist because they root for their olympic athletes? Are the Russians, Americans, Australians, people of Botswana, etc racists because…

Comment by aboutfkntime on 11-27-2015

[QUOTE=Publius;16271236]I don't think there is anything wrong with rooting for fighters based on race/nationality/ethnicity. It only makes me mad when people are hypocrites about it. They complain about others who do it while doing it themselves. At least be consistent.[/QUOTE]…

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