The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as last month's rematch between Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder, Shakur Stevenson vs. Chris Colbert, thoughts on top trainers, the big win by Roman "Chocolatito" Gonzalez, and more.
Everyone's talking about how GOOD FURY was and how BAD WILDER was on the night...
fair enough, much is true
Fury beat a severely injured (ear / equilibrium) and as a result, severely impeded man.
in my books, Fury won the 1st and Wilder the 2nd. The third round was a game changer with the resultant injury and Deontay fought on courageously at about 25% of the man that he actually is!
So, for me, the third fight is a must! However, I'd advise team Wilder to fight at least x2 in between then take on the winner of AJ/ Fury.
That suit, that rap song. Highly untasteful for a Christian FULL STOP.
Those red eyes looked as if they blinded him and the rest of those demons he carried (maybe that's the weight that killed his legs and shocked him) suffocated him... he sweated profusely and kept wiping his eyes and blinking after removing the suit. The look on his face was of bewilderment! Everyone saw that!
His eyes told a different story to his mouth in the fight build up.
I hope they learn and prepare properly this time. Jay Deas' ability is questionable in my opinion and Deontay should look at least to supplement the training staff (Andre Ward ???) - defence and attack with the jab and to to MASSIVE body of Fury.
Common Bronze Bomber - win it back and unify the belts!!!
What's your take Breadman?
Bread’s Response: 1. We can’t start diagnosing Wilder with injuries that the doctor didn’t. They said his eardrum was NOT ruptured, there was just a cut in his ear. You have to be fair despite who you wanted to win.
Team Wilder is going straight to the rematch. They think they can win and they want to be GREAT. They don’t care what everyone else has to say. I don’t blame them. If I listened to everything that people said I couldn’t do I would be a poor, angry bum. Good for them. Run towards to fire and not away from it.
2. You know what’s ironic. Boxers get an eye test where the procedure actually screws up their eyes for a whole day. Most don’t train that day because of it. When I saw those red lights on Wilder I thought to myself I wonder how long it will take for his vision to refocus.
But here is the thing. Sometimes a valid explanation is in order because of a bad performance. In this case no Wilder fan can talk about the outfit because he chose to wear it. It’s not like he caught a thumb to the eye. Or he tripped and sprained his ankle on a camera entering the ring. That’s a freaky but valid excuse. If his outfit was uncomfortable then he can only blame himself. He wanted to wear it.
Andre Ward is one of the few people’s opinion I respect in boxing. Boxers are not by a whole very intelligent. Ward is the exception in this case. There a THREE areas of intelligence. Education, Morals and Common Sense. Ward has all three! From what I know he didn’t go to college but he speaks well and he’s taught himself to be a great interviewer and on air boxing expert. It’s not easy. He’s a man of high character with his faith and family. And his common sense is off the charts. Have you ever seen his list of what a fighter should and should not being doing? I know Ward’s trainer and strength coach and trust me he’s the real deal. They both speak highly of him OFF the record. He’s a once every decade type of total package.
But just because you’re a great fighter doesn’t mean you can be a great trainer. Doing something and teaching someone else to do it are two totally different things. It’s not fair to nominate Ward as Wilder’s future trainer. I’ve even heard Ward say that training is not his thing. Training a fighter is the hardest and most thankless job in all of sports. You’re literally judged on each performance. A football coach can lose a super bowl and still be great. In the NBA a coach can lose 5 games in a row and still keep his 10 million/year job. In boxing you can go 42-0 with a fighter and lose one fight and have your job in jeopardy……..
My take is simple. Wilder CAN win the rematch but Fury will be the favorite.
Bread what’s up ?
Once again keep up the great work .
I would like to get your thoughts on a future potential match up in the junior light weight division between Christopher "Primetime" Colbert against Shakur Stevenson?? Both fighters appear to be the goods and it would be a real good matchup between two very well rounded fighters if I had to pick I would pick Colbert I think he could do more things in there and is more versatile please let me know your thoughts
Bread’s Response: Stevenson and Colbert are both tremendous talents but I’m not picking anyone over Stevenson at this point. But they both have work to do, let’s wait and see. Neither kid has 20 fights yet….
I saw your list of the top trainers and I was impressed. I also was glad you listed some foreign trainers and not just Americans. My question is what do you think of Derrick James, Robert Garcia and Brian Mcyntire as trainers?
Bread’s Response: I haven’t seen Robert Garcia work in the gym and I’ve never spoken with him about boxing so I can’t judge him. But he has a tremendous stable of fighters, they are going to him for a reason. He has to be doing something right.
Bomac and his team are the real deal. I honestly forgot to name him. When I’m asked things I never reference check. I literally go off the top of my head and freestyle. But Bomac and Red Spikes are two guys I know personally. I’ve talked with them and their work with Terence Crawford is nothing short of amazing. Crawford was not the best amateur and while he has excellent natural skills, he’s not the fastest, or hardest puncher or most athletically gifted fighter I’ve seen. But his total package is A+. Crawford is going to the HOF and on his way to being an All Time Great. Before I forget there is another gentleman that seems to be a big part of team Crawford but I don’t know his name. I want to give him credit also. There is no doubt there training team is top 10 in boxing at this moment. Steve Nelson and Jamel Herring are also in their stable and riding high at the moment.
Derrick James is one of best in the game I mention him often. James doesn’t get enough credit for the gameplan he put together vs Mikey Garcia. That was just not a case of Spence being too big. They used a simple jab and step back move to completely offset Garcia who was thought to have a similar skillset to Spence. Spence shut Garcia out 12 zip with basically that one maneuver. That was great coaching. I apologize I forgot James too.
I also think Ronnie Shields and Joe Goosen are good. Shileds is super consistent every year with every fighter. And Goosen pulled Diego Corrales out of the mud in the best fighter I’ve ever seen…
There are some more really good coaches out here so I apologize in advance if I forgot one. Attribution is important with this thankless job we have.
How wrong was I about my prognostication?
Being a lighter weighted heavyweight was never a problem for Wilder, he was limber, mobile and powerful at 212 - 215. At 230 he was stiffer and seemed to be out of gas against Fury! Coming into that fight at 230 was a mistake.
Defense for Wilder is a big problem, he doesn't even cover up much less duck and slip punches.
We all see his problems, but at 34 and having started late can Wilder learn to do the basics and will they stick during fight or does he revert to what he's always done.
I commend Breland for stopping it, but I'm surprised Wilder isn't a more skilled fighter just having a trainer with Brelands pedigree in his camp and corner - Breland was an exceptional fighter.
Deas may be the problem rather than Breland to me based on his post fight banter, Wilder was on his way to being seriously hurt. Wilder was obviously concussed and that so called cut inside the ear was most likely a busted eardrum based on Wilders lack of balance, equilibrium and loss of leg drive. Deas was throwing Breland under the bus for stopping it not understanding the dire straits Wilder was in. Breland should have the most say during Wilders camp and in the corner.
I don't see anything special in Fury, I commend Sugar Hill for preparing Fury and the game plan. Fury made a wise decision to move on from Davidson. And prognosticators now putting Fury up there with Ali is bs.
Bread’s Response: Since Wilder has decided to retain Mark Breland, Breland, Wilder and Deas will have to sit down and talk. Communication is very important when you are dealing with egos. PRIDE…..It can be overcame.
Wilder is poor defensively. Usually heavyweights do simple things defensively. Like extend their arms. Larry Holmes and Vitali Klitshcko used to just take a step back and extend their arms. They made you fight through their arms. For Wilder to be so tall with such a long reach the punches he gets hit with are alarming. Even before this last fight. I really don’t know why. Maybe it’s because he’s locked in on landing his bomb his defensive reaction time suffers. Nevertheless good pick up.
I also agree with Breland. The last few right hands Fury landed in the corner looked to have some serious steam on them. Another volley like that could have been big trouble. You know what’s ironic. What if Wilder wins the 3rd fight and Breland allowed him to enter it healthy?
Fury does have an Ali like crazy type of confidence but his body of work is limited. He can’t be compared to Ali yet.
I do see something special in Fury. His mind processes much faster than the normal fighter. He has natural fighting instincts that are rare. Because he’s not an offensively dynamic fighter and his body isn’t beautiful it may be hard to see but I’m telling you he has something.
I think Davison is a great coach and I think Sugar Hill is a great coach. I won’t discredit Davison he did a great job. He brought him back from over 400lbs and a drug addiction. And they boxed their butt offs in that 1st fight. Sugar Hill did his thing in the 2nd. We don’t have to discredit Davison while giving Sugar Hill his props.
What's up breadman, I'm a big fan of your mailbag, first time writing in from the UK. In your opinion, who are the p4p top 10 British fighters? Also, a few big fights in UK didn't happen in recent times Who wins?
Calzaghe v Froch
Hatton v Witter
Haye v Fury
All the best
Bread’s Response: Top 10 British or UK? Now or all time? You weren’t specific. I will just guess you meant currently.
In no order off the top of my head Josh Taylor, Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Daniel Duboise, Liam Williams, Anthony Yarde, Lawrence Okolie, Dillian Whyte and there is a lightheavyweight black kid who can really fight. He’s undefeated. He’s a big puncher and he’s very calm in the ring. I’m sorry I can’t remember his name but I’ve seen him twice and I was very impressed.
Calzaghe, Hatton and Fury are the picks.
Why is Team Wilder so pissed at Mark Breland for throwing in the towel? The consensus among just about everyone else is that it was the right thing to do (with some arguing the fight should’ve been stopped sooner). I mean, I get they want Wilder to win but... Breland saved him! Wilder and his crew have found a rough way to say thanks.
Also, on a quick side note: Is it true Breland was an ‘84 gold medalist? I saw that on Instagram but was skeptical (since my source was... well... Instagram).
Bread’s Response: Mark Breland was one of if not the greatest amateur fighters we have ever had in US history. He was 110-1 and he won a Gold Medal. He also won several NY Golden Glove tournaments. He was also an excellent pro going 34-3 and winning a welterweight title.
I posted in a few weeks back giving Wilder’s boxing ability a bit of stick. You replied with a very interesting point that Wilder only really throws his money shot when he’s very confident he’s going to land it flush. This adds the shock factor of his power and it keeps his pop fresh, giving his detonator an ever greater affect. I like this point at the time and fury wilder 2 backed that up perfectly.
I’ve just watched the fight back for the first time and notice has often and early Wilder was looking for his money shot. And he landed it a good few times, even if Fury was moving away from this. Fury was able to apply mental pressure to Wilder by taking centre of the ring and this provoked wilder to throw his right hand more. This takes away the shock factor, giving fury to ability to familiarise himself with the power and also takes some of his pop away that he was usually reserve.
Good call Mr Bread.
I recently got tickets for my first ever professional boxing event. I’m going to Daniel Dubois vs Joe Joyce. What do you make of this fight?
Dubois looks like he could have the makings of a proper contender. Every time he fight he gets better. He seems to be made from granite and has dynamite in his fists. Joyce has a serious chin and good engine, but takes shots and is slow. I fancy Dubois is it’s early. If we go past 6 I expect Joyce to really pile on the pressure and potentially take a late stoppage.
What do you make of this fight? Do you watch a lot of domestic uk boxing? If so, what up and comers do you like the look of?
Bread’s Response: Dubois vs Joyce is a big time match up. I slightly favor Dubois but I don’t count Joyce out. This should be a great fight.
It’s been a while since I wrote in been too busy getting old lol
Here’s my question. Can you discuss the difference in having father like care and concern for fighters as a coach And having coach who is just a coach? i know all fighters obviously don’t need it. Me personally boxing aside as a father of color it means a lot to me to see coaches like you, Virgil Hunter, Robert Garcia, Kevin Cunningham, Manny Stewart and although it was exclusive to his nephew Roger Mayweather. The do not just focus on training and winning in the ring but focus on the man as a whole outside of the ring as well. These are guys who would walk away from paychecks rather than take money to watch their fighter do something unsafe. I’ve notice many of the fighters who have had setbacks in the ring or personally, gravitate to these coaches. I think it means a lot to have people in the sport who see these kids are more than just fighters especially kids from bad communities or broken homes. I forget who it was but I remember a few years ago a fighter saying his coach was the first person that taught him how to use a check book properly. The affection and respect Floyd felt for his uncle and his cut man were real. it was obvious before after and during the fight. Same with Canelo. People say he’s just a cash cow to his coaches. I do not do a min believe that. Canelo has zero issue calling people out for using him. Just ask Oscar lol. How much does that effect your ability to be successful?
Bread’s Response: Great Question! First off I want to say that I never bought into the father/son team doesn’t work. I’m talking about biological fathers. There are so many successful father/son teams in boxing currently. Danny/Angel Garcia, Vasyl/Papa Lomachenko, Devin/Bill Haney. Jo Jo Diaz/Father. Teofimo Lopez/Father. Jaron Ennis/Boxy Ennis. Monster Inoue/Father. I know I forgot about a dozen more relevant father and son teams. It’s just awesome how that stereotype has been shattered. It never existed in my opinion.
With a father you get a built in dietician and disciplinarian, the two things fighters stray with the most. He will usually live with you so therefore you can’t just eat what you want as a young kid. He can get away with disciplining you on a different level. He helps you become a man and not just a fighter. He’s your first character builder. Good Character is the most important trait a fighter can have.
I hate to say it but the first thing I can tell about a kid is what type of parents he has. I know who was raised right and who wasn’t. I know a kid who is mischievous as most boys are and a kid who was raised poorly.
Now a “father like figure” is even more impressive. Because the figure didn’t make the child or young man. What he’s doing is strictly CHOICE not OBLIGATION. It’s unbelievably hard. You have to break the habits of a child you didn’t raise. Invest in them with your time, money and resources knowing that at any time they can leave you with no legal or blood attachment. Only a select few can pull this off.
There are benefits when a kid loves and respects you. Sometimes the kid will run through a wall for you. But there are also drawbacks. Sometimes the kid falls in love with your hand and not your heart. When you do too much for them they become entitled and fighters by nature will take advantage of you if you let them.
Back to a positive. When you handle a kid’s career and money is not your #1 motivation then you will never sell the kid down the river. You won’t FEED them to a system and make him take a fight that you KNOW he can’t win.
Honestly it benefits the fighter to have a loving father figure coach more than the coach. The Coach gets more stressed out because he cares. The Coach is more hurt after a loss than a coach who is just a coach. The Father figure coach has way more money and time invested. The regular coach will tell a kid to simply get an investor because he’s not investing his own money. This GAME is a lot more deep than most know who are on the outside.
I will never say his name. But a great HOF level coach once told me to NEVER get too attached to a fighter. He told me that this is a business and it should be treated as such. He told me that fighters are flawed people by nature and we are not their fathers. That most are easily influenced after a loss. That they are users by nature. Once you babysit them they always want to be babysat. I was shocked to hear him say it but I didn’t back talk or disagree with him, I kept my mouth shut because I knew he was speaking from experience. Now honestly I didn’t take his advice because it’s not in my make up to be like that but he does have some valid points. This game is so much less stressful on the coach if he treats it as a business.
Thx for giving me that extra bit of confidence to roll with Chocolatito this past wknd. I parlayed him with Mikey and it paid +150. I appreciate the website and of course I have and will continue to be a loyal mailbag reader.
Bread’s Response: My man www.boxingpick.com I am beyond happy Roman Gonzalez did his thing. He is one of the few fighters I have argued about. I have heard trainers and fighters both discredit his greatness. I have heard everything from he’s just an HBO creation. How can he be #1 P4P? He’s too small. Who are his opponents? What has he really done?
I’m like are you guys kidding? You just don’t have a CLUE. I have addressed it all in detail.
HBO creation…. he was already great and a 3 division champion before he went to HBO. He had already won belts from 105-112. HBO caught on too late.
In 2015 he had a legit claim for P4P #1. Floyd Mayweather had retired. Andre Ward was inactive. Manny Pacquiao had just lost to Floyd Mayweather. Terence Crawford was NEW into his championship status. Vasyl Lomachneko was NEW into his championship status. Only GGG and Kovalev could really challenge him in 2015. Choc is more skilled than both and in 2015 he had done more. I never understood the outrage.
Choc was the longest reigning, active great fighter close to his prime in 2015. Someone has to be #1. It’s a ranking. Again, I didn’t get the outrage. It wasn’t as clear cut as say Roy Jones in his prime but Choc had as good a case anyone.
Too Small. He was small. It is harder to gauge his opponents. But Niida, Estrada, SSR, Viloria and Cuadras are a handful for anyone ever in those weight classes. This resume was better than Finito’s and on par with the great Michael Carbajals.
What has he done? Do I really have to say it. He won titles from 105-115 fought the best available guy consistently and Saturday over his best weight and past his best day, he wins the title at 115 AGAIN by ko.
Now here is the big thing for Choc. The EYEBALL test. I watched him on a GGG undercard side by side and I looked at both of their skill sets. I love GGG but Choc is clearly a more skilled fighter. If Jose Naploes and Julio Cesar Chavez had a baby it would be him. He’s indefatigable, he’s a fluid as water, his footwork is A+, he doesn’t Front Run, he’s an elite body puncher, he has a great chin despite being clipped, his defense is elite for his style and his heart is as BIG as Nicaragua.
So now he comes in Saturday as an older B side fighter vs an undefeated multi title defense Olympian. Choc weathers the early forcefulness of the bigger fighter. He breaks him down with a two fisted, two placed (head/body) attack and he stops him conclusively. Are you kidding me?
Not only is Choc a HOF. He’s one of the best 20-30 fighters who have campaigned 118 and under. He’s that good.
I like going back and rereading some of your old mailbags (I need to get a life, I know)... it can be fun, especially in rereading predictions for fights that have since come to pass (where predictions were either right on the money or WAY off-base).
But I digress.
Yesterday, I came across an old mailbag where you listed your top 10 P4P fighters (Robinson, Ali, Greb, Duran, and so on). In that list, you factored in eye ball test, accomplishments, competition faced, etc. I was wondering if you could give us a run down of just heavyweights. Top 10 greatest heavyweights of all time in YOUR opinion... with you again factoring in all those parameters you previously set. I just thought it would be cool to get your take on the best heavyweights of old and where they would stand among today’s current crop.
Bread’s Response: Top 10 heavyweights ever. … This off the top of my head. No googling. No boxrec. So forgive me if someone is misplaced. I will assess Eye Ball Test, Accomplishments, Competition faced and missed.
1. Ali- He simply is the only heavyweight ever to be the best in 2 eras. He was the best in the 60s when Liston, Patterson and Terrell were the guys. And he was the best in the 70s when Foreman, Norton and Frazier were guys. He was past his prime in the 70s. I can’t think of another fighter who was the best in an era where he was past his prime and that was the best era of the division’s history. If you throw in Ali is only man to defeat 4 Olympic Gold Medalist and he defeated more top 10 RING Magazine rated fighters as anyone in heavyweight history he has to be #1.
2. Joe Louis- The Bum of the Month Club moniker is disrespectful to Joe Louis. Louis fought 8 HOF! He consistently fought the best available guy and kod him. He’s the still the best puncher to ever live 80 years after his prime. And for those worried about his size, if he fought to day he would be a 220lb man with a 79 inch reach. He would be just fine.
Three and Four are the hardest spots in my opinion. This will cause some controversy but I’m going to judge by what they did in their era.
3. Jack Johnson- Johnson was champion for 7 years. He had as hard as time getting a title shot as anyone in history, he didn’t get one until he was 30 which is ancient in his era. During his era he beat a man who was considered the #1Heavyweight ever in Jim Jeffries. His reflexes and counter punching would be elite today. Look at Johnson closely. He stood out in his era as much as anyone else in theirs. He also has athleticism that extends through time which goes over well.
4. George Foreman- I know he didn’t have a great prolonged reign. But eye ball test and peak performances put him here for me. I really think if Ali doesn’t beat Foreman in 1974 he has a chance to reign for 15 years! You have to remember he also won a title in 1994.
I put Foreman over Holmes for one reason. Big wins. Foreman has big wins over Frazier, Norton and Moorer. Holmes’s struggled with an older Norton and his next best win is either Cooney or Mercer. It’s close but I take Foreman.
5. Larry Holmes- Geat consistent fighter. 20 title defenses. Would be a handful head to head vs anyone in history. His peak performances from 78-82 are on par. But not unifying and his HOF wins vs Norton and Ali coming vs older fighters hurt him slightly.
6. Joe Frazier- Frazier has a better reign than people realize. He was as dominant and active a champion as we have had. He also had some excellent pre title wins. He fought Eddie Machen, Doug Jones and Oscar Bonavena as a prospect. And After he won the title from an undefeated Buster Mathis, he made some tough title defenses vs Bonavena, Quarry, foster, Ali and Foreman. Frazier went towards all of the SMOKE. Things just turned after he shot his load in the 1st Ali fight. But Frazier from 67-71 was a high a peak champion as we have had. He also won the biggest fight ever and he can’t help his birthday. No one else in history would have fought Ali 3x and Foreman 2x except him. That’s his 4 losses.
7. Lennox Lewis- I rate Lewis over Holyfield as a heavyweight but I rate Holyfield as a better overall fighter. But Lewis at heavyweight was a DUCKED fighter. Holyfield is only one to tangle with him twice. Lewis’s run in his 2nd reign was impressive. He turned back 3 young studs in Golota, Grant and Tua. He beat Holyfield in a unification. And he beat an ascending Vitali Klitshcko. Head to head Lewis beats 95% of histories heavyweights.
8. Evander Holyfield- Was my favorite fighter of the 90s. He could be as high as 3. He beat a prime Bowe which was no easy feat. He went after Tyson when Tyson was Tyson. Tyson was past it when they finally fought but so was Holyfield who is 4 years older and was an 8 to 1 underdog. He beat a capable Foreman and Holmes. In non title fights he beat Ray Mercer, Michael Dokes, Alex Stewart and Pinklon Thomas. As I write this I know he’s too low…
9. Rocky Marciano- Some don’t rate Marciano high because they say Walcott, Moore, Charles and Louis were shot. Only Louis was SHOT. Everyone else was capable and close enough to their primes to make the victories valid. Marciano beating Walcott…Walcott was at the same place Holmes was when he fought Spinks. Charles was an ex world titlist and challenging. Let’s say where Holyfield was supposed to be when he fought Tyson in 96. Moore was the reigning lightheavyweight champion and went on to reign for years after. Let’s say where Bob Foster was when he fought Joe Frazier.
Marciano had iron will and an iron chin in a 6oz horse hair era. He found a way to get it done every single time.
The tenth spot is also hard. Some will have Jack Dempsey, Sonny Liston and others. But I will put Mike Tyson in there.
10. Mike Tyson- Maybe I’m feeling nostalgic because Tyson fought during my lifetime. And while I admit Liston would have been tough on him head to head. I feel like Tyson had a better reign. I don’t discredit Tyson’s wins over Spinks and Holmes like some others do. Tyson kod Holmes in 1988. Holmes beat Ray Mercer in 1991 and gave Holyfield a tussle in 1992. There is no way you can be shot in 1988 and not be shot 3 years later. Michael Spinks is an all time GREAT fighter. He was a solid undefeated heavyweight who had just kod Gerry Cooney. That’s a REAL win. Just like Joe Louis over Billy Conn and Joe Frazier over Bob Foster. In fact it may be better because Conn and Foster were NOT heavyweight champions.
Tyson had 9 title defenses in his first reign and he turned back some solid guys undefeated guys. Tony Tucker could fight. So could Tyrell Biggs. So could Michael Spinks. Tyson also unified each belt one by one. Something Holmes before him never did and then Tyson won the lineal title.
And with a style that doesn’t age well like Frazier’s after going to jail for 3 years, Tyson came back and unified more belts before running into Holyfield. If you throw in non title wins over Razor Ruddock, Frans Botha and Marvis Frazier, Tyson’s resume is excellent despite people claiming he never fought anyone. He fought all of the notable heavyweights of the 80s who were available. And he fought the two best of the 90s in Holyfield and Lewis.
I feel like I’m justifying my pick but on his best night Tyson is as good as the Dempsey’s and Liston’s and he had a better reign than both. So why not Tyson?
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