By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as a mountain of reactions to the doubleheader performances Jermall and Jermell Charlo, the positive test of Willie Monroe, Gennady Golovkin, Mikey Garcia and more.
Here is my quick thoughts after watching the Charlos fight: Too many fighters are getting by on athleticism and power but they are missing the nuances and fundamentals: Angles, pace, no body work, or hooks and uppercuts basically punch variation . Too much 1-2 & Jab. Elite fighters of the past decade could do the basics plus Hook and do good inside work (Floyd, Cotto and Ward). One of the few fighters that I think can be in that group is Spence. He can do the basics but has a killer inside game, not to mention he can tactically fight at a faster pace when deemed necessary. Not many fighters can do this in this era outside him and GGG. Also soft matchmaking is hurting dudes development. Canelo has improved because he's facing all sorts of looks. Danny Garcia was much better when he was with Golden Boy because he was matched tough and adapted. I think Warrington can give anybody fits at 126 dude looked huge and swarmed Frampton. Idk why Carl gets sucked Into firefights when he fought LSC the first time he was smart at dodging fire, maybe he is past it now. Lastly I think AJ-Whyte II will be a much better fight then people think. Dillian has improved and I don't think he will be as eager as the first fight. I still got AJ but in a uncomfortable 12 rd fight. It's crazy that Ortiz gets no mention by AJ that's a very credible fight but his team must see something. As always much love and respect , Happy Holidays.
Bread’s Response: I’m not going to NITPICK the Charlo Bros and make them out to be EXPOSED like everyone is saying. I picked them both to WIN for a reason, they can fight.
What I will say is everyone only remembers the results and they never remember what happened leading up to the results. Jermall Charlo was repeated tagged by counters from Austin Trout and Julian Williams. Consistently and cleanly. But he won the fights so what happened seemed to be dismissed.
Jermell Charlo struggled bad with Vanes Martyrosyan, Demetrius Hopkins, John Jackson and Austin Trout. But his highlight reel ko of Erickson Lubin and Charles Hatley made everyone forget those other recent fights.
So now they get the full court package of PROMOTION that was long overdue. They get the Red Carpet treatment. And everyone expects for what happens in their highlights to happen, instead of what really happened in those fights. The MEDIA can play tricks on your mind if you aren’t careful.
Both of the Charlo Bros are excellent fighters. But they’re still building. They aren’t so dominant where they can’t lose rounds or get tagged with good shots. They have before. If you fight enough elite level opponents who come to fight it’s going to happen. It happens to everyone not just them. The problem now is, promotion makes them out to be dominant monsters. They probably are monsters, but they aren’t as dominant as you would think if you watched the fights I mentioned.
I don’t think LACK of competition hurt the Charlo Bros. They fought the fighters AVAILABLE to them, Jermell especially the 154lbs brother who fought some quality opponents. The only real miss he had was Erislandy Lara. Jermall The 160lbs has been asking for a shot at GGG and Canelo. The WBC even ordered it it’s not his fault he hasn’t got those fights. Their competition level has been solid. Matt Korobov and Tony Harrison just came to fight and they didn’t let the opinion of others affect their opinion of themselves.
I agree with you about Danny Garcia. I just thought to myself that if Danny would have kept fighting progressively tougher fights like he did when he fought Kendall Holt, Amir Khan and Lucas Matthysse, he would have been a P4P guy at this moment. The reason Danny was able to beat Matthysse was because he tested himself with Khan.
I also agree about Canelo. He fights tough fights and he learns from them and gets better.
Josh Warrington is a DOG. He fought an excellent fight vs a fine fighter in Carl Frampton.
Anthony Joshua is going to stop Dillian Whyte just like he did last time. Joshua is too sharp and composed.
Luis Ortiz can beat any heavyweight on any given day. My only question about Ortiz is which one will show up. He’s hot n cold and we also have the drug testing issue with him. It’s a fair question but his skills aren’t in question, he can bump.
Man you called it on Twitter that no one was paying attention to Tony Harrison. You didn’t pick him to win but you did say he was in the fight. Everyone I know thought he would get brutally stopped. How did he do it? I thought Charlo won close but it wasn’t a robbery. The Fox broadcast team was so disrespectful towards Harrison. I’ve never seen something so obvious in my life. Then in the Jermall’s fight, he lost in my opinion and they couldn’t even say much because Korobov was landing constant counters that everyone could see, whereas Harrison was landing a jab. But a 119-109 score card gets handed in and you know the FIX is in. No way Charlo won that fight by 10 points. The announcers also never brought up the missed drug test by these high octane twins who rely on power and athleticism. I enjoyed the fights but I didn’t enjoy what the PBC was pushing.
Bread’s Response: I don’t score fights at home. I never do. But I know I was watching a close fight. The punch that stood out to me was Harrison’s JAB. Harrison was scoring consistently with a nice , fast counter jab. Charlo had no answer for it. Harrison also stayed calm and he looked composed all the way up until the last round. Jermell had his moments too and I thought he won the 11th and 12th clean. Honestly I wouldn’t have been mad at a draw.
But Harrison appeared more in control of what he wanted to do. Here is what I mean. Harrison wasn’t throwing more punches or landing big telling shots. But he was landing his jab and he was making Jermell miss. Defense has to be scored. The storyline of the fight is Jermell is a killer. Harrison has no chin. Harrison has no stamina. All you see is highlights of the Lubin and Hatley kos. So expectations were high.
Then you watch the action and Harrison is holding him to even terms and you get what you get. I didn’t see a robbery. I saw a nip and tuck even fight. I wouldn’t have been mad at 115-113 either way or 114-114.
In the Charlo vs Korobov fight I saw another close competitive fight. I didn’t see a 119-109 fight. I just can’t understand how anyone could get that scorecard. That is very troublesome. Charlo was his usual aggressive explosive self. But he gets hit. He always has despite him being undefeated. Korobov wasn’t scared. He was relaxed and he counter punched Charlo. He hit him with a nice left hand counter. A right hook just to keep him in front of the left hand. And then he countered Charlo underneath with a nice shovel left uppercut to the liver. That shot tamed Charlo a little bit. I thought Korobov did better than Harrison and Harrison did a great job. The 2nd fight got lost in the controversy and the 2nd fight was more controversial in my opinion.
I feel bad for Korobov. I didn’t think he had it in him. I was wrong. He didn’t get a fair shake either. It’s one thing to lose but 119-109 is just inexcusable. I didn’t see a robbery but 119-109 means he had NO chance to win.
I never criticize analyst. I understand that this was the Charlo coming out party. I get it. The Twin athlete segment and commercial after commercial. But the FOX broadcast team as a whole was biased. At one point they were admonishing Harrison for not coming forward and punching more. Well Harrison has a leaky chin, with questionable stamina. He has to fight a certain fight in order to give himself his best chance to win. If he would have traded with Charlo then people would criticize him for a stupid gameplan. His jab and defense were what won him the fight. Not his aggressiveness. I was really surprised that he wasn’t given more credit for boxing smart, it wasn’t like he was running. Even the experts on the panel overlooked what he was doing. The kicker was when one of the announcers had Harrison losing 5 of the first 6 rounds and the other one was saying ”you have to take the title from the champion”, which is a ridiculous myth.
This kind of misinterpretation causes casuals to believe something that is NOT true. It wasn’t fair to Harrison because the announcers made you believe that Charlo was in control when you can see he wasn’t. Charlo’s corner even knew it was a close fight.
In the Korobov fight in the 11th round, Korobov landed 5 flush left hands on Charlo’s face and the announcers made it out that Jermall was handling the round easy. It’s insulting to anyone who knows boxing for someone to tell you you’re seeing something that you know you aren’t seeing. I never rewatch fights immediately after but I thought I was hearing things and I wasn’t. Watch the 11th round again, that was the most bizarre announcing I have ever heard. I felt bad for Korobov and his team.
Casual Fans listen up. A fight is 12 individual rounds. Not one big 36 minute fight. Scorecards are turned in after each round. A round does not have a carry over affect. The fighter who wins the 12th round doesn’t necessarily win the fight. The last round doesn’t count for more points than any other round. A fight is scored on 4 things. Effective Aggressiveness, Clean Punching, Defense and Ring Generalship. You can’t add or subtract things for your own personal agenda. Those are the rules!
I thought the announcers as a whole misled the casual public to believe that the Charlo Bros were dominating when they weren’t. Both fights were very close and competitive and both Charlo corners knew it and you can tell by the instructions.
What is the difference in the Charlo Brothers? Besides one being a little bigger I am curious as to what you think separates them.
Bread’s Response: I think Jermell154 is faster. He’s quicker from point A to point B. If you wanted one to hit an open target I think Jermell would get to it first. His 1st step is quicker. I think he’s the better “out fighter” when he fights off of his back foot.
I think Jermall160 is more physical and he’s the better puncher. I think he’s more consistent throughout a fight.
However, the biggest differences I see in the two are these things. One is I think Jermall160 has more trust in his chin. He takes a great shot. Korobov hit him right on the money with about 15 straight left hands and he ate each one. When Jermell154 is hit with similar shots he doesn’t press the action as much.
The second thing I have observed is Jermell154 gets frustrated more. He fights angry all the time. Both throw big shots but it seemed like Jermell154 was mad that Harrison was fighting back. Where as when Jermall160 gets heat back he just keeps fighting. He’s mean and intense but he doesn’t seem to get as frustrated. Jermell154 talks in the corner , and he gets visually upset. I saw him bang his gloves together after just 2 rounds when he was walking back to the corner. Harrison was just not allowing himself to be run over and Jermell154 was already frustrated. Jermall160 listens in the corner and he doesn’t talk in between rounds.
I want to say both of these twins are excellent fighters. Everyone gets too high on a big win and too low on a big loss. It’s boxing. No one is perfect or unbeatable. Now the media can just be fair and stop it with the agenda driven coverage.
Thanks for the impeccable mailbag we get to read every week. Its gold.
Two questions for you my man:
i/ Is it allowed to communicate with the corner during a fight (as an "external" person)? I wonder if the corners do know or are allowed to be told what the unofficial scorecard (eg HBO / Showtime) is looking like throughout a bout? I'm not suggesting it's a wise thing to even consider - as I doubt a coach would make changes based on what eg Harold Lederman thinks. At times I hear corners say "keep doing what you are doing", "you are winning the rounds", etc, while the unofficial score widely differs, and in those cases where the unofficial ends up being "correct", you'd wonder whether the coach would have benefitted from knowing his dude, in contrast to his belief, is down after say 8 rounds, and not up.
ii/ Boots Ennis. I know its WAY too early to make predictions about this guy. We know you need so much more than just talent, etc. So no need to remind me that I should hold my horses :) BUT, just looking at this dude. IF IF he were to fullfil his full potential, as supremely talented The Truth and Bud are, I think he could end up being more special. Ennis in 24 months time, IF his development and all goes his way, I could see beat the today's version of The Truth and Bud. Am I delusional?
All the best,
Bread’s Response: Sure you can get a text or whatever to let you know but it’s unofficial and often not exactly like the official scorecards. The problem is most corners are biased for their guys. Me personally if it’s a swing round I don’t count it for my guy. I only count the clear rounds.
Boots Ennis is nasty. His talent level is off the charts. But I don’t want to go crazy with the hyperbole because it’s boxing. We have to see him develop. I don’t want to give him credit for potential. But he is a different type of talent. He could be a P4P level guy if all goes well but it’s early so let’s wait and see.
Wish you and your family Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Six questions for you this time -
1. These days you hear so often that small guys fizzle out faster than the big ones. Do you agree? Pep fought 229 times, Armstrong 181 times, Saddler 162 times. Find me one big guy except Archie Moore who fought as much as a Pep or a Armstrong or a Saddler.
2. This is applicable only if your answer to the first question is 'yes'. Why do you think that small guys fizzle out faster than the big ones? Is it because when compared to big guys the difference in their chin strength is not as high as their punching power, resulting in them taking more punches per fight before they finally get knocked in a fight. What is the reason according to you?
3. Moore took multiple beatings and was knocked out a few times but still ended up having a great career with 219 bouts. Yet they talk about modern boxers like they are damaged goods after a loss. I guess, we can't really blame the experts because the boxers in this era indeed start underperforming after a one sided loss or a knockout. Tell me, what do you think damages a modern boxer more physically and psychologically - a single punch knockout like Tarver vs Jones or sustained beating like Maidana vs Broner?
4. Your top 5 in terms of ring cutting ability irrespective of style (I say this because some brawlers like Foreman were great at it and in fact there have been some outfighters like Hearns who could cut off ring brilliantly if they had to)
5. Your top 5 in terms of infighting ability irrespective of style (again, do not limit yourself to just pressure fighters)
6. Your top 5 when it comes to setting traps. Sorta like Archie Moore.
Bread’s Response: 1. You picked special small guys. As a whole I think smaller fighters lose it slightly faster. But I think it’s more of a style thing than a size thing.
Volume and pressure fighters usually burn out earlier. Relaxed boxers punchers usually last the longest especially if they are big punchers. Then you can fill in the other styles in between.
2. I think as a whole smaller fighters fizzle out slightly faster because they rely on volume and activity more.
3. Moore fought in the 40s and 50s. If he fought today he wouldn’t get licensed at a certain point. I think a ko depends on the fighter. Some fighters like Tommy Hearns they don’t bother. Some fighters like Donald Curry never get over them. Often times it’s mental strength that gets over a ko. Nothing physical.
4. Top 5 ring cutters. Off the top of my head in no order. George Foreman, GGG, Sandy Saddler, Henry Armstrong and Julio Cesar Chavez
5. Top 5 infighters. Off the top of my head. Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, James Toney. Andre Ward, Julio Cesar Chavez
6. Top 5 trap setter. Archie Moore. Joe Louis, Floyd Mayweather, Ray Robinson, Alexis Arguello.
Good morning from the UK.
1 Have the Charlo's previously been tested under VADA for their fights? Both brothers were poor on Saturday and wondered if this had coincided with stricter testing?
2 Now that Adonis Stevenson's career is over, how do you appraise his title reign and his historical standing in the LHW division
Bread’s Response: Both Charlo’s are in the WBC Clean Testing Program. So to be fair they are in the testing pool. But I have no idea how often they have been tested. The Clean Testing Program is ran by VADA but it’s not the same as what Canelo is sort of forced to do, or what Nonito Donaire, Deontay Wilder and GGG are doing. What they do is pay for testing which guarantees consistent random testing throughout.
I honestly didn’t see anything in different in either brother. I think you guys have to look further into fighters. Just because you have a tough night it doesn’t mean you can’t fight. This is not the 1st time they lost rounds or had tough nights.
Everyone was expecting two decapitations. What they got was two close fights. If you assess their records good, you will see that neither brother is dominant against their better opponents if they don’t score a ko. The middleweight Charlo won two close decisions over Austin Trout and now Matt Korobov.
The junior middleweight Charlo had a close decision win vs Demetrius Hopkins, Vanes Martyrosyan and Austin Trout and he was losing BIG to John Jackson.
So I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the drug testing made them look vulnerable. They had tough opponents in front of them. Give Harrison and Korobov credit.
The Charlo’s have styles that will cause them to lose rounds but score kos. They throw big shots and look for kos constantly. But they are both easy to hit. Neither has a high workrate. Jermell especially does not throw a lot of punches. So if you have a low punch out put, and you miss big punches and you’re easy to hit, you will lose rounds. To an extent it’s the same problem Deontay Wilder has.
In contrast Errol Spence is also a puncher but his punch out put is higher, he puts you on the defensive more and he goes to the body more. He also doesn’t try to kill you with every shot. So that’s why Spence is the more efficient fighter.
Prayers are up for Adonis Stevenson I saw some nasty things said about him on Twitter.
I think Stevenson was a great puncher and an excellent champion. Not a great one but an excellent one. He was the lineal champion so you have to respect that. He beat Chad Dawson, who beat Bernard Hopkins, who beat Antonio Tarver. He was the champion for 5 years.
He won the title from a very good fighter in Chad Dawson. He made some solid title defenses vs Tony Bellew, Badou Jack and Tavoris Cloud. He has plenty of misses. He stayed away from Krusher Kovalev and Eleider Alvarez. Overall he deserves HOF consideration but he’s not a lock to get in because of his personal life and his perceived misses and ducks.
Didn't mean to offend last time with my "allah" reference. To be clear, I didnt mean anything but - in fact it was a compliment but appreciate your personality being more of the modest kind and it wasn't your cup of tea. Also, im not even muslim myself so somewhat of an odd on.
i/ Where do you rank Money and SOG among best boxers in history when it comes to make adjustments within a bout? How would you top 5-10 look like anyways?
ii/ You are always on boxers' side and always always give benefit of the doubt. However, I have noticed in the Canelo meat PED case you seem to actually be somewhat harder on him and feel he cheated stronger than you do generally without knowing for sure. Is this driven by stuff you have heard from boxing insiders (which I appreciate you cannot necessarily share)? Reason I'm asking is because if I thought 75% he had done it BEFORE the rematch, after the fight I would say less than 50%. Why? If you DID take and therefore know those hard GGG punches you ate the first bout and survived with that bulky body. Surely for the rematch if you are off the PEDs (although yes, he still got benefits from it but that was very early 2018 and fight was mid-Sep), you will be less confident of being able to take those shots - surely you wouldnt come in so lean and more in attack mode than first? Ie its his choice of physique and style of fight in rematch that makes me wonder if maybe he actually didnt do it..Whats your view? I know you think Canelo is a GUN and a modern GREAT in the making, but on this topic you have been a bit hard on him, implying to me you may know more than you can share.
All the best and looking forward to see you becoming trainer of a 54 champ in 2019.
Bread’s Response: Ward and Money are both the two best adjusters of this era. I would have to think long and hard about top 10 adjusters ever but I do think Floyd is in it.
I can respect a fighter without being in love with him. It’s called being objective. In boxing lots of opinions are BOUGHT or INLFUENCED. I don’t have that issue. I think Canelo is a HOF fighter. He is a GUN, he will fight anybody. But at the same time I believe he used PEDS. He tested positive twice and I don’t believe it was a mistake.
Yes I have heard rumors about him using PEDs before he was caught but I gave him the benefit of doubt. And for him to test positive twice after those rumors are too much of a coincidence in my opinion.
I firmly believe that once a fighter has used PEDs then they can always benefit from them. The more you research PEDs the more understanding you become. This is not 2009. There are PEDs that actually increases your bone density which in turn will make you take a punch better because the bones are thicker thus it’s harder to penetrate to the nervous system.
Most PEDs help you recover faster which will make your peak higher and allow you to get through camp easier. Camp is a grind. So when you stop using them you may not get the highest peak but you also won’t fall as low as you did when you were totally clean.
Just because Canelo performed good under strict testing doesn’t mean he never used. It just means he doesn’t need PEDs.
I know guys from the street who are in jail until this day who have shot people in street fights that they could have beaten with their hands. It’s not because they needed the gun, but because they wanted the gun. They didn’t want to chance it.
I know kids in school who were smart as heck and still cheated on test. They could have passed those test if they studied but it was easier to cheat.
I have buddies who take Erectile Pills. They aren’t impotent. They take the pills to perform better to not take a chance with a bad performance.
Somehow people assume Canelo was innocent because he performed well under testing. All that means is he did it the right way without cheating. It doesn’t mean he never cheated in the past. We have to be smarter when we assess these fighters.
Cheating does not guarantee victory. Being clean doesn’t guarantee a loss. Fernando Vargas who I think was an excellent fighter, cheated vs Oscar and still lost. Nothing is guaranteed in boxing. But the results of the test are the results of the test. We can’t always rationalize why, and we shouldn’t have to.
I know you are getting a Charlo overload of emails but I have to chime in. I think a stark difference in the Charlo’s is Jermell is a bully and Jermall is not. I think both are obnoxious and I suspect PED use but since it hasn’t been proven I won’t go there. But Jermell is always trying to bully his opponents. He’s always yelling at the weigh ins. He wouldn’t shake Tony Harrison’s hand during the stare down. After the fight he made up a lie on Harrison. Harrison didn’t tell him he really won. He congratulated him on a good fight. At the press conference he wouldn’t even take a compliment from Jarrett Hurd who thought he won. He thinks he’s being competitive but he’s being a bully.
What’s strange about his bully mentality is he’s not the puncher he thinks he is. Harrison has more kos than him. He only has 15 kos in 31 wins and he expects to knock every out. I’m making this prediction right now, Harrison is going to stop him if they fight a rematch. Hurd would walk him down and destroy him and Jrock is 50/50 with him. Jermell is not the boogeyman.
Jermell’s other problem is Errol Spence and his twin brother. Both Spence and the bigger Charlo are regarded as better fighters. Ronnie Shields and Derrick James both know it they just don’t say it. They both have more knockouts also in less fights. It drives Jermell crazy, all he talks about is getting knockouts. His brother Jermall will be fine. He will get over the tough fight with the Russian. Jermell will be forever exposed and not recover from this. Remember this prediction.
Bread’s Response: Very interesting comment. I personally don’t view the Charlo Brothers as the same person either. But everyone seems to clump them both together which is inaccurate.
As they were coming up I didn’t necessarily think Jermell was better but I thought he was more advanced. He fought much stiffer competition for whatever reason and he turned pro earlier so he had more fights. But in the last few years that perception has changed. Jermall has outperformed him and he has shown to be more mature in a boxing ring.
I did notice that Jermell wouldn’t shake Harrison’s hand at the stare down. I also noticed how upset Jermell was at the post fight press conference. But I UNDERSTAND that. That was his 1st loss. No competitive fighter takes their 1st loss good.
Jermell is more high strung than his brother that’s for sure. So in fights he will have to channel that energy. Very few fighters have been able to fight angry and try to force kos. Mike Tyson and Gerald McClellan were the best I have seen and when both of them couldn’t score kos they also struggled.
I think Harrison troubles him every time they fight if Harrison doesn’t get clipped. He can simply box better.
But here is the thing. Jermell is 31-1. 1 loss is not the end all. If he’s the killer he says he is he will come back from this. It should add fuel to his fire. Let’s see how things play out. I am a “let’s see type of guy”. Jermell can come back, it’s just matter of will he.
Do you believe drug addiction is the cause for the rampant PED use in combat sports and should be treated as such? For example cases like Antonio Tarver and Jon Jones. They can’t seem to stop no matter what.
Bread’s Response: Drug addiction is a serious disease. And I empathize. But being a professional athlete is a privilege. And if in a fact an athlete is a drug addict and they can’t stop using PEDs, then they need to leave the sport and treat their addiction to improve their quality of life. Maybe the competition and stress of the sport is a trigger.
Drug addicts who only harm themselves deserve the upmost sympathy. But using a drug in order to do harm to another person can’t be excused under any circumstance.
In light of Willie Monroe’s positive PED test what do you make of Mikey Garcia training at SNAC with Victor Conte? It does seem like a conflict of interest. If Mikey beats Spence will he get full credit?
Bread’s Response: I think you’re reaching here. Mikey Garcia has nothing to do with Willie Monroe. From what I read Monroe took Nugenix. Which is an over the counter Testosterone Booster. That had nothing to do with Victor Conte or SNAC. Unless you know something different then that positive test is on Monroe.
Just because an athlete takes a supplement brand, which is SNAC in this case, it doesn’t mean he won’t take something ELSE to get an edge. SNAC does NOT make Nugenix. From my knowledge all of the SNAC supplements are legal.
Conte also is one of the leading VADA supporters. VADA is the gold standard of testing in combat sports. Many of the top trainers, S&C coaches and nutrition gurus do not openly support VADA the way Conte does.
Mikey Garcia asked for VADA in this fight. So he deserves credit for that. Errol Spence deserves credit for accepting VADA. Unless someone fails the test the winner deserves full credit.
Can you explain what makes a great jab? Three recent fighters come to mind, who use jabs differently, yet still effectively. I see someone like GGG, who doesn't have the longest reach or the fastest hands, but he seems to be able to land his jab at will against high-level opponents. Then there is Manny Pacquiao who seems notoriously inaccurate with the jab, but it looks like he doesn't care about landing it, he just wants to blind people for power shots. And then there is Mayweather's jab to the body, which always seemed to stop opponents in their tracks.
Can you go into what sets these fighters apart, and how you teach your boxers to throw the jab?
Bread’s Response: Great Question. A great jab is a jab that can CONTROL the opponent. Not just a jab that can land but a jab that can control. One thing I will note is that some fighters who have great jabs aren’t given credit for having a great jab.
GGG has a great jab. It was laughable to me when people said he can’t just win a fight with a jab. You’re right GGG doesn’t have a monster long reach, but you don’t have to have one when your timing is impeccable. GGG throws his jab right from the stance. No hitch, no tip off. Hard, straight and to the point. It’s one of the best jabs of the last 30 years along with Andre Ward’s , Krusher Kovalev’s, Lennox Lewis’s, Ike Quartey’s, Oscar De La Hoya’s and Pernell Whitaker’s.
Manny Pacquiao has an interesting jab. He has what a I call a FRAMING jab. He instinctively frames you out of position to land bigger shots. He also throws his jab out of sequence. I have seen him often throw it after a right hook, most don’t throw their jab after a hook. Manny also has a hybrid jab. It’s a half hook, half jab that he throws to land over his opponents left hands. I won’t say Manny has a great jab but he has an effective one.
Floyd Mayweather has a great jab. He doesn’t get enough credit for it. His jab is fast. It’s accurate. It’s controlling. Floyd also places his jab all over the opponent. He kills you to the head and body with a jab. He also times where you will block his jab and he will turn other shots off of it. For example he killed Diego Corrales’s body with a jab and Corrales’s started reaching for the jab and Floyd started turning hooks over on his chin.
The jab is the 1st punch a fighter should learn in the gym. The text book jab is the 1st jab a fighter learns. As times goes on a fighter’s instincts will take over and they will throw variations.
But your lead shoulder should be pointed at the target’s throat. The lead hand up about chin level about 8 inches in front of the lead shoulder. The distance depends on the fighter’s anatomy and natural stance. Knees bent. On the toe of the back foot. Push off the back foot and take a small step with the front foot. Simultaneously you snap out the lead hand. At the point of contact you snap the thumb down and through the target.
Now that’s a text book jab. Don’t tell Muhammad Ali that. He has the best jab ever in my opinion and threw a twisting flick. Sonny Liston has what you call a text book jab.
Nevertheless a jab is the most important punch in boxing. In this era the jabbers that stand out to me are: Tony Harrison, Charlo Twins, Billy Joe Saunders, GGG, Canelo, Errol Spence, Eleider Alvarez, Julian Williams, Leo Santa Cruz, Erislandy Lara and Anthony Joshua.
Hope you’re well.
1. Robert Garcia
If one of his 3 underdogs pull it off, is he en route to be trainer of the year?
2. Josesito Lopez
I feel like Josesito Lopez has a real shot. Thurman is a level above but because of the timing of the fight, Keith’s injury, Lopez’s camp, etc... it’ll be very competitive.
I expect Lopez to go to the body and I see the contest going 12 rounds. I wouldn’t be surprised by an upset.
3. Garcia - Granados
Close. Granados could virtually be unbeaten. Garcia is better but no light out puncher and doesn’t throw enough to stop Adrian. With his volume and his grit I expect a controversial decision for Garcia. He’ll hurt Granados but will lose rounds.
Porter is considered a solid WW but never the best. I feel like he’s underrated a little bit. He also could be unbeaten. Brook and Thurman were very competitive fights that could have gone either way. We count him out against Spence and Bud but he could very well be the best WW of today. Granted, Spence is a machine and Bud a vicious genius, but not sure he would not out point them in a very physical fight.
Is it because of his « ugly » style?
5. Mikey Garcia
I read that Mickey never ever worked on strength. I was always surprised by how not muscular he looked. Some of it comes from genes (latin fighters are usually less muscular) but apparently it can also come from training. I do believe nowadays that boxers work to much on packing muscles. It’s satisfying ego-wise and gives a sense of confidence, but it’s not the most important.
Robert says his brother only runs and do boxing training, mitts, bag, sparring... I always felt Garcia’s weakness was his body and overall physicality. We assume he lacks toughness (Salido, Broner) but maybe it comes from him being too « weak » physically. If you compare between him and Broner in terms of muscles, the difference is crazy.
His trainer has him working with Conte and is focused on strength, essentially with core work and building muscles. How do you think it will affect Mikey? He was already generating crazy power thanks to his excellent balance, leverage and accuracy. What about now?
Would you prep him for Spence this way?
What would Hurd need to do to be p4p? I feel like he’s very close to get in. Harrison, Trout, Lara are excellent wins.
Back in 2013 Canelo made the list after his very close win against Trout.
Competitive fights. Surprised by Harrison’s win. No robbery but still surprising. Spoiled us for the biggest 154 showdown in a while. The two unbeaten champs. Would have been great.
Everyone is talking about their hype and them being exposed but I disagree.
They are what they are. Imperfect but still excellent. Jermell is looking for the KO too much (also maybe trying to do better than Hurd) and lacks more controlled finishing abilities. Jermall was probably affected by the upset and fought an extremely game Korobov who fought his best fight to date and gave it all.
I had 7-5 Jermell and 6-6 Jermall. Your thoughts?
I dont think these « shortcomings » tell us anything more about a Mell Hurd or Canelo Mall fight. Style makes fight.
8. J-Rock, Castano, Soro
Those 3 JMW are so good. When do we see them facing eachother (again) and get a real shot. They all have a shot at winning a title, also I believe Hurd is the toughest test.
If I’m a trainer, all politics aside, I go for Harrison and Munguia.
Despite all their talent and skills, a fight with Hurd would cost too much.
Even in Margarito Cotto 2 Cotto was starting to breakdown.
I’d love J-Rock Munguia, Soro Charlo and Castano Harrison.
Take care and enjoy your family.
Merry late Christmas.
Bread’s Response: 1. Robert Garcia has a huge shot to win 2019 Trainer of the Year. I think he will get 1 big upset next year. Upsets are always given more credit in boxing because the underdog loses about 75%-80% of the time.
2. I have no idea how Thurman will look so I can’t say. But if he’s out of form and Lopez is in form we could have a fight.
3. Lot’s of people are picking Granados to beat Garcia. Granados could be undefeated. But he has those losses for a reason. He doesn’t have the next gear to separate himself in close fights. I respect Granados as much as any fighter in boxing because of the tough fights he has taken. But I think he stands up too straight to beat Garcia who is a sharpshooter vs Granados level fighters.
4. Porter is a tremendous fighter and he doesn’t have a BAD loss on his record. I think he’s HELL for any welterweight in the world. Shawn does not get more credit because of his style. Critics just don’t like how he fights. But it doesn’t mean he can’t fight. He has to fight in the style that works best for him and he does.
5. Yes it’s really interesting that Mikey Garcia has made it this far without any of the new strength stuff that these fighters do in this era.
I agree with you I have always looked at him and thought he seemed fragile. But he’s one helluva a fighter.
I think going to SNAC will definitely help him. He’s going to be stronger and more athletic. The question is will it be enough. The fight is not until March. He’s doing his hard conditioning work now which is best. He will retain the maintenance of his physical program while he’s concentrating on boxing from January-March.
In super fights like this Mikey is giving up more or as much as anyone in history. He’s giving up weight, length, age, punching power, physical strength, speed and athleticism. I don’t know who has the best skills or IQ, we have to find out when they get in the ring. I can’t ever remember a fighter giving up so much. If he wins this fight we all need to pay homage to Mikey Garcia.
6. Hurd is most likely a top 10 P4P fighter. If not top 10 he’s top 15. He’s done enough. From 8 to 15 there is wiggle room. It’s a subjective thing but Hurd’s resume and accomplishments are on the level.
7. I agree with you on the Charlo Brothers. Both fights were close and competitive. Both fights could have been draws or went either way. There were many swing rounds. In the 1st fight Jermell didn’t get the swing rounds. In the 2nd fight Jermall got the swing rounds.
Just because they had tough times vs Harrison and Korobov it doesn’t mean they can’t beat Hurd, GGG and Canelo. The styles are just different.
8. 154 is stacked. Soro, Jrock and Castano are some of the best contenders in boxing. I don’t think any of them will get a shot at Munguia. Munguia is being steered away from a certain type of fighter since the Liam Smith fight. I think he will pick through the WBO standings until the RIGHT opportunity comes up.
Hurd is a beast but he’s not unbeatable. If any of those guys get a shot at Hurd they have to take it and Hurd will have his work cut out for him.
-All my friends & journalists I respect are talking robbery. I’m telling them to try watching fights with the sound off. Charlo is a FOX fighter. Fox’s commentators have an agenda-like too many other journalists.
(Canelo IS a GUN?)
-I realize I’m venturing into “hater” territory. But while Canelo’s resume is better than Jacobs, who has he dominated that’s elite? Mosely was way past it and at 154lbs. Trout? Some people thought he lost, even more thought Lara beat him. Despite the scores he didn’t dominate the older/smaller Cotto. Khan at 154lbs in not elite. He cheated against GGG and still lost the first fight-second was controversial at best.
(This & That)
-So can Al Haymon (OR ANYONE???) explain why the Charlo’s missed tests or Errol Spence drug his feet for testing? Spence doesn’t have a big enough advantage???
-Heard “The Champ” was getting booed at Chisora-Whyte. Also, I don’t think he’s as aggressive as he used to be prior to getting hurt badly by Wlad.
-Watched a sad documentary on Tommy Morrison. What was your opinion of him? I thought he obviously had his limitations, but his power-especially his left book was THE TRUTH. How much did the partying/skirt chasing halt his ceiling.
(The Best I Saw)
Julio Caesar Chavez
How Bad Is It?
*Hearns is my Fav, could not force him in
**I was too young for PRIME Durán.
Bread’s Response: I will answer backwards.
I love the best you saw section. I assume the 12 best of your lifetime. I have many of your selections.
I saw some of Duran’s prime. I was very small but I saw his 3rd fight with DeJesus. I also so the best win of my lifetime vs Ray Leonard. So I have to put him in mine. In chronological order of their careers”
I didn’t have to force Hearns onto anything. He’s the hardest fighter to match up against head to head in history. He can beat all time greats from 147-175. No other fighter in history has that type of hypothetical range. The 2 fighters I’m upset for not putting on was Ricard Lopez and Alexis Arguello. I’m upset with myself I didn’t find room for them.
Arguello is the best technical puncher I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. No one delivers blows like Arguello. And his run from 74-82 is among the best in history.
Lopez is the best technical fighter I have ever seen. His footwork, sense of distance and punch delivery is breath taking. The only reason I didn’t put him on my list was his level of competition. He could be better than everyone but we will never know.
Both Charlo fights were close. I don’t know what else to say.
I never said Canelo ws dominant I said he was a GUN. In each of Canelo’s BIG fights that were 60/40 or tighter there was scoring controversy. Trout, Mayweather, Lara and GGG. Canelo has not been dominant vs his best opponents. But boy can he fight. He shows me something new each and every time out.
So you think Joshua is gun shy. We will see if he fights Dillian Whyte or Deontay Wilder. Wilder has a rep as a freakish puncher. Whyte hurt Joshua in their 1st fight. Let’s see what happens and how he fights each fight.
Tommy Morrison was a huge puncher. He just came along in the wrong era. The 90s were a Golden Era for heavyweights and there were just too many killers in the era for him to be at the top for too long.
His left hook was brutal. It was fast, loose, compact and hard as a truck. Great punch. Drinking and chasing will affect any athlete if done too much. With boxers those affects get highlighted more.
I think Morrison’s brittle chin and shaky stamina also had something to do with his problems. He could fight but he just didn’t take it too well and if he didn’t get you early he faded.
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