By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling questions on Nonito Donaire, Gennady "GGG" Golovkin, Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tyson Fury, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs. Golovkin, Froch vs. Golovkin and more.
What's up Bread?
I have been reading critical comments about Nonito in regards to his thrilling win over Cesar Juarez and it seems that most people believe that the fight was closer than expected because Donaire is on the decline. No one seems to recognize that maybe Juarez fought an incredible fight and he would have been a difficult test for anyone on that night. I agree that Donaire circa 2015 may not be Donaire circa 2012 but i was impressed with Nonito's sharpshooting and punch selection. He wasn't simply loading up for one shot like ive seen previously and Juarez simply refused to wilt. What are your thoughts?
William in West Palm
Bread’s Response: Man I don’t care what anyone says about Nonito Donaire. He’s a great fighter who happens to be CLEAN and he’s declining at the normal rate that great fighters decline. Nonito Donaire is one of the best fighters ever who campaigned under 122lbs. He’s my guy and I happen to love his career accomplishments.
His opponent was a maniac possessed and Donaire had to dig deep to turn him back and that’s what he did. Nonito has been around for a very long time. And things will be rough for him against top level guys. But I think he was one more great performance in him. Stand up Nonito!!
Fury is all wrong for Wladdy!! He’ll lose the rematch cause Fury’s not going to stand there toe-to-toe and duke it out with Wladdy. He’s gonna feint Wladdy out of position then shoot a counter shot and step away. When he can’t step away he’s gonna clinch up until the referee breaks it. Wladdy is too linear and against shorter heavyweights where he had the reach advantage that worked. Fury is agile in an awkward kind of way and there’s nothing that Wladdy can do in training to reverse his loss. Furthermore Wladdy’s not confident about his chin or he’d walk Fury down and pound him. Vitaly who has a better chin would walk Fury down and pound him but Wladdy cannot.
Quillin didn’t prepare correctly for Jacobs – plain and simple. His defense against that right hand was to crouch low and lean to his right rather than to slip outside the right hand to his left and counter with the left hook. Anyone who watches Jacobs fight knows he’s primarily a 1-2 fighter, who hooks occasionally to set up his right hand. Quillin was jabbing tentatively, while Jacobs was shooting his own jab, to set up the right hand. Jacobs was countering that tentative jab with a right cross.
You’re right Quillin’s flow between offense and defense was like a deer in the headlights, he was getting caught off-guard, his reflexive quickness wasn’t there. These are all things you can train for in camp.
I also thought that Quillin got caught cold and that he may have warmed up as the fight went on. Harvey Dock should’ve given Quillin an 8 count because when Quillan’s legs went rubbery momentarily I thought the ropes kept him from falling. After the 8 count Dock could’ve re-evaluated and stopped the fight or cautiously let it continue.
I like your punchers list Foreman had hands like anvils! Some punchers punch from their whole body, others from their legs, torso, shoulders, upper arms, forearms, and hands. Still others are fulcrum punchers.
Oscar isn’t/can’t let any harm come to Canelo, who’s carrying Golden Boy right now. You notice they/Canelo didn’t actually call Floyd out? Why cause Floyd would still be the A-side and get the lion’s share of the promotion. Against GGG who had ~120K PPV buys for the Lemieux fight verses 900K for Canelo/Cotto; Canelo will have the upper hand and can force GGG down to 155lbs (using the Mayweather formula). GGG in a sense has hurt himself by trying to get a catchweight fight against Andre Ward. If GGG tries to push 160lbs Oscar’s a smart promoter and he’ll use the Andre Ward affair against them to make them look bad in the public eye. Oscar will fight Canelo against midlevel – but credible guys and wait GGG out until there’s no one left for him to fight except them. GGG on the other hand is gonna fight a bunch of guys nobody heard of. GGG doesn’t want to risk moving up because I’m sure that Ward could make 168lbs just for him.
Bread’s Response: I think Fury beats Wlad again also but I’m not as sure as you. Wlad is one of those guys who is just scary by nature. But scary people who face their fears at some point overcome them. I saw several opportunities for Wlad to drop some heavy leather on Fury in their fight. If somehow Wlad can get into a mental groove and start the fight better he has a good shot to win. We shall see.
You’re right about Quillin. Guys who dip too low to their right to avoid right hands usually get clipped. If you are going to dip to that side you better really know what you’re doing. Ala Floyd Mayweather and James Toney. Quillin has really poor defensive reflexes and it always takes him time to adjust to the speed of the fight. Even in his fight with the Australian kid he was hit too much early. He just blasted him out a short while later…..Danny Jacobs knew of Quillin’s liabilities. That’s why he jumped on him like that.
I think Quillin should fight at super middleweight. He’s in his 30s now and he’s a huge guy. If he’s not training my eyes tell me Quillin is a 190-200lb man. In your 30s that’s a lot of weight too cut.
I still say the stoppage was premature but that’s boxing. No need to complain anymore.
I agree with everything you said about Canelo and golden Boy. But the funny thing is the more Canelo wins the more confidence they seem to have in him. I think he will be matched tougher than you expect. I think he will be matched like Oscar was, who happened to be matched insanely tough for a A side superstar.
It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that PBC fighters get paid more money but are not made into stars, at least compared with HBO fighters. The biggest stars in boxing are on the HBO side of the fence (Crawford, GGG, Kovalev). I can't come up with a PBC fighter that has fame of the same caliber.
It might be because PBC is a league and it benefits the league to promote the league, as opposed to promoting individual fighters into stars. Otherwise, certain PBC fighters would be getting the fights they ask for and making it possible that they grow into stars. Yet, PBC fighters get paid more money than HBO fighters for taking fights of the same risk so it makes sense to be a PBC fighter from a fighter's financial point of view, even if they don't get the same level of fame.
I thought of this when, before he lost to Jacobs, Quillin was asked if he would face GGG and his response was only if it is a HBO/Showtime PPV. Jacobs said essentially the same thing after he beat Quillin. They are content to make the best money possible in boxing, even if that means not getting the biggest fights.
Look at Danny Garcia. He went from facing real tough challenges at 140 in Khan etc. and being one of the hottest tickets in boxing to becoming increasingly vilified by boxing's hardcore fans for taking easy fights. Danny Garcia himself said in an interview recently that he wouldn't face Amir Khan unless it was a PPV.
Keith Thurman is another example. One of boxing's brightest stars, who now would rather face average opponents and make a lot of money doing it, as opposed to taking the challenges to become a star, like Porter or Spence.
In other words, why would a PBC fighter take a tough challenge if they can make a lot of money facing lesser challenges? At the same time, you can't become a star without taking tough challenges.
You always have a good take - what's your opinion?
Bread’s Response: Your take is my take. Your take correct. The PBC probably does not promote the individual fighter like HBO does but they pay better, so there is a trade off. Fighters going broke is a historical trend so I think most would rather get paid. I do believe a PBC fighter can be a superstar but as you stated they have to take certain fights on a certain platform to become that star. I really hope that the best PBC fights get made next year.
Your the best all rounder in the business for knowledge, breakdown, history and you articulate it so well. Shock you don't get more cameras stuck in your face.
How come you don't do a midweek mailbag and a weekend one?
I want to touch the Golovkin debate.
I said to you before that Froch would beat this man if he ever moved up. I agree with you that he shouldn't move up and you highlighted that with his build in your last mailbag. He hasn't beaten anyone I could say is a big middleweight who could punch and match the strength of a Froch or DeGale.
It's no secret that most big punchers struggle to bridge that 8lbs "160-168" gap. Guys like Benn, Abraham, Eubank and Pavlik could put you down with one punch but once they moved up that power never carried and Golovkin is smaller then 3 of them other then Benn. Many other MWs struggled to bridge that gap.
What makes you think Golovkin can bridge that gap?
I have seen Golovkin career since he become WBA champ, in that time he has done a great job beating on guys he should beat, only face one current Champ and 2 former champs in his 34 fights. I don't get how he is so highly rated when he hasn't even been in a 60/40 match up let alone a 50/50 yet.
I wanted your opinion on my opinion?
Im with you on thinking that Canelo has a decent chance of scoring a points win over Golovkin. Style wise it's a good match up for Canelo, he doesn't have to look for Golovkin, has the hand speed advantage, his counter punching skills come into play, looks like he can take a punch and we don't know how Golovkin will react to being hit plus Canelo spiteful body work.
How would you fancy Danny Jacobs chances vs Golovkin. Jacobs having the hand and foot speed advantage?
Out of the 4 categories you named which one do yo prefer?
Heavy handed Debilitators
100kg from London
Bread’s Response: Time permitting I will do 3 mailbags in a week. Some weeks I can barely get one it. But it keeps you guys checking the site…lol.
The biggest jump in boxing is from 160-168. Very few can be truly great in both divisions. I don’t know why that is but it’s true. The weight jumping usually stops around 154 for guys who like collecting lots of titles. I’m not saying GGG would be a dominant super middleweight. I just think he beats Carl Froch at this stage. There are guys at 168 who would give him hell.
I rate GGG high because he consistently dominates world class fighters. I know he’s never been in a 60/40 fight but I believe in my heart that middleweights were steered away from him. None of the top 5 in the world want any part of him. Billy Joe Saunders just said something on the record that many say off of it. I’m not ready for GGG just yet. At least he was honest. Others lie and act like they want the fight then secretly say they aren’t ready. The eyeball test tells them they aren’t ready. I give GGG credit for that. Even a bad ass like Carl Froch is throwing extra demands in negotiations to face the Big Drama Show. The only person who seems to really want to bump with Golovkin is Andre Ward. But that fight won’t happen at this moment. GGG is a great talent my man. Embrace him. His competition has been good enough for me to recognize it. It’s not his fault he can’t get a meaningful fight.
I like Canelo’s chances. I favor GGG 65/35 but Canelo has a shot. Canelo is nothing to play with and he would make GGG look silly at times with his flashy counters. Canelo’s problem is he doesn’t like to go forward or backwards. He sort of wants to post up in the center of the ring and bump. In this fight I think GGG would be the more mobile fighter and that is where he will take the Red Head.
I like Danny Jacobs but my guts tell me he’s not ready for GGG. First round kos can be slightly misleading. Jacobs was the regular WBA champion for a while now and a fight GGG was never made….GGG is the super champ in the WBA. Jacobs is talented but in order to beat GGG you need a certain level of physical toughness. Canelo had that. Kasim Ouma had that. I don’t know if Jacobs has THAT. We shall see.
Electric Slashers. The reason being is the electric slashers can be most successful over a variety of styles. The Electric Slashers can punch on the move, their punches are judge friendly and they don’t have a specific range. Ray Robinson my friend.
What’s going on Bread? I have to disagree with you about the Jacobs vs. Quillin fight, I think that it was a good stoppage! Reason being, when Harvey Dock turned around and literally jumped in Quillin’s face…Quillin never reacted! What I mean by react; he never flinched, moved or acknowledge Dock’s presence. I watched the reply a few times and I don’t think Peter knew what was going on, or were he was at! I admit that I don’t have a frame of reference or an example of any other championship fight that was stopped like that, however I think that Peter was separated from his senses.
Speaking on Peter Quillin and Marcos Maidana, do you think that money can make fighters shot? What I mean by that statement is…fighters that come from really ruff, tuff or impoverished backgrounds…once they start making some good money, they loose their hungry or edge? For example, when Chino walked out for that 2nd fight with Mayweather I could instantly tell he was not the same fighter from the 1st fight. Chino’s eyes, body language and demeanor was different. When he lost the fight he didn’t seem angry, upset or like he really cared! That is the same attitude and look that I saw from Quillin. They both appeared generally unfazed by the lose. I don’t mean that they did not work hard to get to that point or I’m not tryin’ to knock them (I’m a fan of both)! I just wanted to know your opinion?
Bread’s Resppnse: Sure money can make a fighter shot. Especially when that fighter has weight problems. You eat more. Literally and figuratively. Marcos Maidana is done as a fighter. Mark that down. He will never make 147 again in a healthy fashion. 4 million dollars will go a long way Argentina.
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