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Daily Bread Mailbag: Canelo, Saunders, Golovkin-Hopkins, More

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling questions on Chris John, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez, Jermall Charlo, Floyd Mayweather, the recent failed drug test of Billy Joe Saunders, and more.

I don't think Canelo takes a Charlo fight right away.

Canelo has some game and going 24 rounds against GGG isn't trivial.

Charlo is a different beast! He'll dominate Canelo similar to Hearns/Pipino Cuevas.

Jermall is the calm twin, more cerebral than his brother. He sets traps, he'll walk Canelo into something

Bread’s Response: I definitely don’t see a Hearns vs Cuevas blow out. Cuevas needed to get close to Hearns and the length and speed difference was just insurmountable. Canelo is not tall but he can actually box with Charlo. If they stand in front of each other and just “box” I think Canelo breaks even or gets the better of it. Charlo does not have the advantages over Canelo that Hearns did Cuevas.

It’s a super close fight. I can see either winning. I only picked Canelo because of his judge friendly punches. He really captures a crowd and judges with his loud slashing shots. I was at 3 of his fights live and all were controversial. Mayweather, Trout and Lara.

In the Trout fight I had to go home and watch it on TV because I being live I thought Canelo won easy. Later when I found out it was controversial I realized it was because the TV doesn’t pick up the energy of the crowd.

At the Lara fight I sat next to a fighters and their teams. I told them all that Canelo was winning on the judges scorecards. He has a way of making things look like he’s doing enough.

At the Mayweather fight I thought Mayweather took control in the 2nd half. But there is a myth that the fight was a shut out. Canelo did ok in the 1st half of the fight. He got more than the benefit of doubt in the 2nd half….

My point is Charlo gets hit super clean and often. Therefore points are being scored against him. Canelo is one of the sharpest and best combination punchers in boxing. Canelo will make a case for 6 or 7 rounds because of this unless he gets clipped. Canelo’s fans will have plenty to cheer about and the judges will be influenced.

Hi bread,

God bless you brother!

Always a pleasure to write to you and get your insights.

My Question to you is what do you think of the billy Joe Saunders getting caught doping with the stimulant Oxilofrine.

According to Victor conte this stimulant is much stronger than Clenbuterol. Makes you stronger faster and cuts weight drastically.

It explains how he cuts 30 pounds within a month time.

This guy is not a good person. If you recall when he fought Willie Monroe at the weigh in he has his son Punch Willie in his balls!

Recently he threw chicken at Deontay in Ireland while visting to watch the Tyson fury fight.

And last week in England he Dared a homeless drug addicted woman to punch a passer by walking in the street and offered to pay her 1,000 for the gaffe. And after she did it refuses to pay her.

All caught in video. Is this the type of man that represents being a champion professional boxer 

Come. On man!

Your thoughts bread?

Andy Gonzalez
Staten island.  Ny

Bread’s Response: I don’t try to make simple things complicated. Oxilofrine is something that the UK allows out of competition. But not close to the fight. In August they weren’t close to the fight, so common sense would suggest he took it to cut weight early in camp. The problem is Saunders signed up for VADA and VADA prohibits it at all times. Saunders and his team should have checked the banned substance list on the VADA website or notified VADA that he supposedly wanted to use nasal spray. I think he knew that he could take Oxilofrine far out from fights and that’s why he took a shot and tried to beat the test. It’s no coincidence that this particular substance is allowed in the UK, just not close to fights.

I don’t believe his excuse just like I don’t believe Canelo ate tainted meat. I think VADA is testing fighters earlier and earlier and the results are they are catching more fighters. It’s simple. These fighters are cycling off before it gets close to competition. The timing tells all you need to know.

I won’t get into if Saunders is a good person or not. I don’t want to judge him on a small microcosm of his life.

Now the commissions have to step up. VADA is doing their job. But the sanctioning bodies and commissions are not doing theirs. It shouldn’t be up to the fighters if they fight or not. Fighters spend money in camps and they stand to lose 7 figures they want to fight.

I have a solution. Put 20% of the purses in escrow. Stipulate if a fighter test positive the 20% goes to the clean fighter and his team to reimburse them for camp expenses. The dirty fighter gets suspended for 12 months not 6. 6 months is nothing they fight every 6 months anyway. A 2nd failed test leads to a lifetime ban. In addition to losing the 20% of their purse they need to be fined by whatever commission the fight was set to take place in another 10% of their purse.

Penalties have to have TEETH. If they don’t cheating will be worth it. Look how many known cheaters have been caught in the last few years and still garnered big fights after they have been caught.

What's up Bread?

I really enjoyed reading the questions along with your replies regarding the Canelo-GGG rematch and I wanted to chime in with a few thoughts and questions:

1. I completely understand what you're saying in regards to Golovkin and whether we should feel sorry for him.  You mentioned that "Sometimes you have to find a way to pull it off" as far as winning big fights when you are past your best and in the eyes of many Golovkin found a way to pull it off (or at least salvage a draw) with his late rally.  There is also a sentiment that perhaps the final round went Canelo's way just to avoid the controversy of yet another draw.  I don't have proof but that is the feeling I get.

My question is what is the best way for a fighter to recover from such a grueling fight?  It seems like some guys bounce back better than others so I wanted to get your take.

Peace,

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: I thought GGG deserved a draw but there were swing rounds that didn’t go his way. Not just the 12th. He can’t complain and neither can his fans.

The best way for a fighter to come back from a grueling fight is to win it. The win makes it a little bit easier. If you can't get the win you have to be an optimist. No pessimist ever accomplished anything special.

canelo-golovkin-rematch (25)

Let’s have some fun for sec. We are in the Land of Make Believe.

Keith Thurman decided to come back in 2019 (like I said, Land of Make Believe).

He fights a tuneup against a Zab Judah or Josesito Lopez and looks sharp!

He says he wants a tougher fight before going after a belt holder.

He looks down the list and is offered a guy we’ll call Boots Ennis.

Who wins and how does the fight play out?

G

Bread’s Response: Dam bro you caught me off guard with this one. Is Thurman coming back. I haven’t heard it. I can see the Judah or Lopez fights. But man no way he fights Ennis. That’s not going to happen. Ennis is too dangerous and he will have to be a mandatory in order to get a title shot.

I won’t break the fight down yet because Thurman is elite and proven on that level. Right now we just know Boots is a unique talent and we are giving him the eye ball test. Ask me next year after Ennis steps up. I do think he is the goods though but we just have to give him time.

Bread,

I’m a 32 year old corporate executive that has been reading your mailbag since I was a college kid during the Boxing Talk days. I've been in love with the sweet science since I was a kid and my father (a white jewish attorney who has never thrown a punch in his life) would wake me up as a young kid to watch Holyfield/Foreman, Bowe/Holyfield, Tyson’s comeback tour, and Lennox (he was a heavyweight guy).  Back then he would order the PPVs and our aunt, uncles, and cousins would all drive out from hours away to watch the fights together.  When I was a kid this was a magical experience . . . I lost the sweet science until I got to high school and saw Coralles v. Castillo in my bedroom and fell further in love. I remember watching Prince Naseem, Young Pac was rocking the bowl cut and just heating up back then, RJJ was aggressively heading toward TBE status, and I first saw Pretty Boy Floyd when he took out Gatti. That’s my generation of boxing so I think it’s relevant to share.  But thanks to you, I have also spent countless nights up late on Lee Wylie and other’s youtube channels watching the old classics. It’s addictive.

To the question—I was reflecting on GGG’s loss to Canelo and your analysis regarding how that impacts his legacy.  As we juxtapose his career with the man whose record he was attempting to break, Bernard Hopkins, I think I see quite a similar predicament.

Hopkins had just lost his lineal belt and championship defense streak to Jermain Taylor. Twice. Hopkins legacy at that time, in light of the earlier Jones loss, was certainly heading for HOF but not ATG.  Hopkins reinvigorated his legacy with his second run at Tarver, Winky, Pavlik, Pascal,  etc. . . Now GGG will have the opportunity to follow a similar path but he will have to walk through the young Lion just to get a seat back at the table with a still peaking Canelo.  But if GGG beats Charlo and then was able to prevail against Canelo decisively in a 3rd match where does he go down all time at middleweight?

I wanted to keep this short for my first post (i failed), but I would like to close by pleading with you to keep doing what you are doing no matter how famous you will  get from training some day.  You are a special type of historian that inspires love for the sweet science, Bread. More than just boxing, i think you inspire a lot of values in your readers.  I can say that i am a pretty successful individual by all standards and you have legitimately given me inspiration from the time i was a college kid, through law school, through a firm, took a gable to become an entrepreneur, took my company public, and back to being an entrepreneur.  I swear some of the boxing shit we speak of coached me through those times.  I want you to know I say this not to brag about any accomplishments--like any man i have my flaws and my demons and I am defined by my character not my resume.  But I share that because you have been a positive influence in the way i use the sweet science and the lessons we learn about our humanity through the fight game as a metaphor for everything we confront in life. It would have been a shame never to share that with you. Straight up, your readers appreciate the values you inject in these incredible conversations about the sweet science.

Thank you.
--
G

Boston, MA

Bread’s Response: I like the city of Boston. Some of my favorite movies like the Town and Equalizer were filmed there. I was there once for a fight at the House of Blues.

Thank you and know the exact generation you speak of but you seem more clear minded. The worst thing about someone who started watching boxing in the 2000s is they think boxing started in the 2000s. I heard some young disrespectful fighters say things like Ray Robinson wasn’t that good. Once I hear that I can literally tell how they were raised.

Ok onto to GGG. Hopkins lost to a fighter in Jermain Taylor who didn’t turn out to be anywhere near as good as Hopkins. But Hopkins is taller than GGG, he started his career at light heavyweight and he had a relaxed boxer puncher style, so it allows for more longevity. Hopkins also had a way about him where if he couldn’t beat you, he would beat someone who beat you.

Hopkins beat Kelly Pavlik who beat Tayor twice. He beat Jean Pascal who beat Chad Dawson. Dawson beat Hopkins. Hopkins beat Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver who both beat Roy Jones. Hopkins beat Winky Wright who had a draw with Jermain Taylor. He was an expert at that. It lessened his losses and it dismissed his losses as a style thing.

GGG’s style won’t allow for that type of rise in weight and longevity. He can restore his legacy but it won’t be to the extent Hopkins did. I personally thing he’s taking too many punches and his endurance seems to be struggling. GGG looked like he was having an asthma attack after a few rounds. His will power is amongst the best I’ve ever seen to get through that and come on late but how many times can a fighter go to that “dark place”? We shall see.

Much respect for your work. Good insights in a game that doesn't always profess honesty.

Should Golovkin retire or risk seeing whatever status he has accumulated start to slip? Another loss at his advanced age, and people start to revise history and write their own stories about his credibility in his past. Seems like GGG is getting called out since he looked a step behind his 2014-2015 form.

Also, I heard from WBC is ordering GGG to fight Charlo even though Charlo was the WBC mandatory so he should actually be fighting Canelo. Seems like only Canelo benefits from this decision. Charlo should be fighting Canelo.

Thoughts on these points?

Thanks for your time.

Jay

Bread’s Response: I don’t think GGG will retire but I do see a Chocolatito type of loss looming. He’s just getting hit so clean and he’s pushing so much to just break even. If GGG turns this around and gets 2 or 3 elite level wins it will be great for his legacy. I would love to see him do it but I don’t know if he can.

I think Charlo should be fighting Canelo also. Charlo is the interim champ. Canelo is the full champion. Charlo now deserves a shot at the real championship. Even if they allowed Canelo a voluntary defense, I think they should fight in 2019.

Breadman ,

Billy Joe Saunders fails a drug test by VADA . What do you see in this , and do you think the fight will happen . Saunders should be smart enough not to take a banned drug . Could he have done this on purpose to not have to face Andrade . On the flip side Demetrius Andrade trains at SNAC , a facility run by Victor Conte of the Balco scandal . Why would name fighters seek this guy out . The stigma of a convicted drug cheat is there . Please just tell me if I am missing something . Getting excited about these upcoming fights and would like your picks :
Ryota Murata / Rob Brandt
Daniel Jacobs / Sergiy Derevyanchenko
Fury / Wilder
 
I have always enjoyed the Light Heavyweight Division . So many Great fighters , and a long History of Great fighters .
I have always wondered how the older era fighters would do against the new era fighters .
Could these guys hold their own today prime to prime .
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Bob Foster
Micheal Spinks
The champions today are :
Bivol
Stevenson
Beterbiev
Alvarez
These would be Great fights , how do you think each era would match up and compete with the other .
And one last question . Don't hear this fighter talked about much . How would Dariusz Michalczewski  match up , could he hold his own with these guys .
                                   Thank you very much ,
                                                 J.B.

Bread’s Response: In Saunders I see a fighter who tested positive for a banned substance. Period.

The reason fighters seek SNAC out is their supplements are great. You can buy them over the counter. Anyone can and no one has ever tested positive because of them. SNAC also sponsors athletes in the VADA program. Something that no one else in boxing is doing. And VADA is this generation’s standard bearer as far as drug testing.

Victor Conte is the ONLY sports nutritionist that actively promotes stringent random testing. Whatever his past indiscretions he’s atoning for them.

Bro is Foster, Moore, Spinks and Charles fought today, none of the champions, who are champions today, would be champions anymore. Just watch the footage of them. Moore and Charles are the same size of the fighters today. Foster and Spinks were bigger. The tallest two lightheavyweight champions ever. More skilled and harder punchers. It’s really not close my man.

Hi Breadman,

I'm a big fan of yours.  I have a question about body jabs.  Golovkin has a really good jab, and he wasn't committing to the body against Canelo.  Could he have used some of his jabs on the body, instead of mostly head jabs?  I remember Kovalev using the jab to the body against Nathan Cleverly to great effectiveness.  Can you think of guys who used a jab to the body really well?  If it is an effective tool, why don't more boxers use it?  Does it open them up to counter shots?

Thanks for your time, you are the main reason I check boxingscene.

Ben

Bread’s Response: You know I was asked how could GGG get to Canelo’s body better and I suggested straight body punches until the harder stuff around the elbows opened up. For whatever reason Canelo just discourages GGG from digging into his body. That’s why I always say you have to wait until 2 guys line up in front of each other to see everything.

A fighter’s rhythm is like his fingerprints. It’s unique. And until they line up in front of each other you don’t know what they will be able to do. GGG is a round body puncher not a straight body puncher. It hurt him against Canelo. He definitely needed to jab and throw straight right hands to the body.

Kovalev had the hardest body jab I have ever seen. He scored a ko with one and I’ve never seen that before or after that. Floyd Mayweather has the best body jab I’ve ever seen. Not the hardest but the best. Andre Ward is a close 2nd. Before Floyd no one really used a body jab to a point of controlling a fight. It was more of a bait shot. Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard used them. Tommy Hearns threw a harder one also but his jab to the head was his more famous shot.

The reason why fighters don’t use it more because you can run into a right hand and get your ear donged. You have to have impeccable timing.

What's up Bread?

I just wanted to get your thoughts on former featherweight champion Chris John.  He reigned for a long time but only got a few notable fights (one of which was a debated victory over Juan Manuel Marquez and he also defeated Rocky Juarez twice).  Where do you rank him historically? Where would he rank at 126 if he were in his prime fighting today?

Peace,

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: John was an excellent fighter and technician. But he should’ve stepped up more in prime if he wanted to be an ATG. He has the numbers but no one saw him enough.

If he fought today he would be among the top guys but I can’t say the best because you just don’t know enough about him. His career should have been better. He was over 40-0 at one point in one of the original 8 divisions, with double digit title defenses and he’s not top 10 ever at featherweight.

Send Questions to [email protected]

Tags: boxing image  
User Comments and Feedback (Register For Free To Comment) Comment by Steven Mccowan on 10-07-2018

[QUOTE=T.M.T;19170223]I look forward to clenelo vs Charlo. He is no walking punching bag like lil G. He has some serious skills, power and a real fighters temperament. Great fight when it happens :boxing:[/QUOTE] Charlo awalking punching bag though.

Comment by Jab jab boom on 10-06-2018

[QUOTE=Robi13;19172267]Yeah be tough behind your lil screen. You're pathetic. No matter how much you hate on canelo, he still the face of Boxing. Run along puzzy[/QUOTE] Are you aware of how gay you come off? Your comments basically reads like…

Comment by Bjl12 on 10-06-2018

[QUOTE=Cigar;19170488]Oy vey! That Jewish dude just kept going on and on about himself and what he's accomplished. I thought he was going to tell us his college grades, net worth, what kind of car he drives, and his wife's physical…

Comment by Robi13 on 10-06-2018

[QUOTE=Jab jab boom;19171525]Not quite, the only ones that have an issue with what I post are other Canelo ball guzzlers like you, shadoww, aboutfkntime and bigdunny. Y'all should just start a little group orgy gathering while y'all stroke each other…

Comment by aboutfkntime on 10-06-2018

[QUOTE=Jab jab boom;19171525]Not quite, the only ones that have an issue with what I post are other Canelo ball guzzlers like you, shadoww, aboutfkntime and bigdunny. Y'all should just start a little group orgy gathering while y'all stroke each other…

Post a Comment - View More User Comments (22)
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