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Daily Bread Mailbag: Canelo-Golovkin, Loma-Rigo, PEDs, More

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling several questions on the middleweight mega-fight between unified world champion Gennady Golovkin and Mexican superstar Canelo Alvarez, the recently finalized Vasyl Lomachenko vs. Guillermo Rigondeaux, brand of boxing gloves preferred by elite fighters, and more.

Hi Bread

I hope the world finds a way to give back to you, a HOF career for J Rock would be fitting.

Two questions, if you answered both, and formed a third conclusion point I would be delighted.

What do you make of the muscle mass on Joshua? It surely helps beat guys before they get in the ring, but you have to control the controllables (cardio). You've got that mental benefit vs physical deficit, interesting...

Tyson Fury, I love this guy, gravity defying boxer, big heart, plays by his own rules. Peter Fury is one of the most admirable, rational and colourful people in boxing, etc. It breaks my heart, to start to question if Fury will ever physically or mentally reach that Klitscho level again. What do you think?

I would recommend to the boxing community to check out the following interview, it's boxing folklore at its best:

Exclusive interview with Peter Fury at home, part one. Aug 17 (youtube)

Bread’s Response: Thank you man. From your mouth to God’s ears. I work hard and try to do things the right way. I never cheat the grind.

I think Joshua is an extremely intimidating looking athlete. He’s also very agile. But Any human being that muscular will have some issues recovering quickly as far as cardio but so far it has worked for him. I have always favored a heavyweight about 6’3  225lbs because of this but Joshua is the truth. He did get a little break when Klitschko didn’t know how to finish him. Joshua was so tired he was dead on his feet. But he’s a dog. Let’s see how his career plays out…..

I think Tyson and Peter Fury are both great guys. Both are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. To answer you directly, no. No I don’t think Tyson will ever reach the heights he did vs Klitschko. Has a heavyweight champion in his prime ever retired undefeated after winning the heavyweight title for the 1st time. It shows me that the fight and prep for the fight took everything out of him. He has probably had so much fun over the last 2 years that he could never get back in the kind of shape a man his size would have to get in anyway.

Again Peter Fury is one of the better boxing minds in all of boxing. I like him a lot.

Hi Bread!

Loma vs Rigo is most likely to happen in December. Both are defensive wizards. Who's gonna emerge on the top? Is Loma really "the best since Ali" as Arum keeps saying?

Best,

Artur

Bread’s Response: Loma 51/49 this is a real fight. Rigo is so special he could overcome the size and youth. No Loma is not the best fighter since Ali. Have you ever heard of Roberto Duran? How about Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns. I just gave you 8 fighters since Ali who are better than Loma. Loma is a freak talent but he has lots of more work to do to be the best fighter since a prime Ali.

Yo Bread

Long time Admirer of your work. Just a quick question. I think Floyd is without a doubt the best of this generation and  top 25 ATG but when u mention that he has beaten 7 HOF fighters (Hatton, DLH, Mosley, Marquez, Cotto, Pacquaio, Gatti)objectively can we say that any of them apart from Hatton was in there prime ? I think hypothetically he would have beaten any of those seven fighters in there prime but would isnt the same is actually doing it. Fair enough it isnt all his fault that there timelines didnt cross at the ideal time but in terms of legacy I think if he had cleared out 147 after Hatton victory beaten a younger Mosley and a Cotto before he was bludgeoned by Margarito and Pacquaio. On top of that beaten Manny a lot earlier and hadnt f***ed over Marquez with the weight issues all of which he was more than capable of doing the fact he has beaten seven HOF fighters would carry a lot more weight. Also in your opinion do u think Nelson and Chavez in there prime when Whitaker beat them ? Along the same lines where  Camacho and Rosario when Chavez beat them ?

Thanks

Rich

Bread’s Response: I agree. Can’t argue with facts. None of those guys were in their prime except Hatton. For as great as Floyd is that comes back to bite him in historical rankings.

Chavez was past his peak but maybe on back end of his prime when Whitaker fought him. Nelson was in the same exact spot. Also both were operating one weight division too high.

Camacho was on the back end of his prime when Chavez fought him. Rosario was at his absolute best.

Breadman bro how's it goin? Hope you're good

So firstly come on man now we know floyd mayweather is permanently retired let's be clear on him vs sugar ray robinson and let's do it in an easy way. How do you see a head to head at 147 go and how do their best 10 wins at any weight compare (like is basilio a better win than de la hoya)?

Also, there are more and more experienced amateurs coming into the pro ranks and trying to get to world level within their first 10-15ish fights; rigo, loma, usyk, beterbiev, a.joshua, we'll see shakur stevenson and Michael conlan do it too, also brits like katie taylor and big dangerous heavyweight joe joyce is fighting an experienced gatekeeper ian Lewis on his debut.

Is this a relatively new phenomena? Has amateur boxing improved that much with things like the wsb?

Last one, check out michael venom page the mma star who fights like Anderson silva on speed. He's signed a pro boxing contract! Given how connor mcgregor surprised me i am wondering if Mvp can also use his amazing fighting instincts to shock theboxing world.

Bread’s Response: I don’t think it’s a new phenomenon at all. There is just an influx of older more seasoned fighters coming along. Some will be fast tracked. Some won’t. I’m not so sure Shakur Stevenson will be fast tracked. He’s very young, I think we have to wait and see how his performances look first. From what I can see he will need the standard 20 wins before he challenges for a title.

History has always had cases where young fighters could step up. I don’t get too excited because most of the best fighters of all time had close to 20 fights before they challenged for world titles.

People don’t realize that Sugar Ray Robinson was a heck of a lightweight. He spent his first 20 fights at lightweight and he was undefeated there. Head to head just the physicality of Robinson would be too much for Floyd. He’s at least 3 inches taller and he’s a ridiculously hard puncher. Robinson could not only box but he could fight. If Floyd landed some nice shots he could just go into kill mode and force Floyd into vicious exchanged like he did vs Randy Turpin who’s style threw him off a bit. Robinson was never really stopped in over 200 fights in a small glove era. I say Robinson would win a good tactical fight if Floyd boxed. If he Floyd fought him I like Robison by ko. He’s the most dynamic offensive fighter ever as far as power, hand speed, combination punching and punch variety. Robinson literally killed a man in a boxing ring. There is a myth that none of his prime is caught on video. They say only his amateur fights and then his middleweight reign after he’s 30. But I saw some footage of him at 25 years old vs Tony Riccio, Cliff Beckett, Sammy Angott, Izzy Jannazzo and Freddie Flores. It’s on youtube if you search correctly. He was a monster! That’s a lot to ask of Floyd to beat a guy like that. Equal in skill but the physicality is just different.

Their 10 best wins….

Floyd Mayweather

1. Diego Corrales- Perfect Performance

2. Jose Luis Castillo 2- Revenge performance vs prime HOF level fighter

3. Canelo Alvarez

4. Manny Pacquiao- Fight for the greatest of an era

5. Oscar De La Hoya

6. Miguel Cotto

7. Ricky Hatton

8. Zab Judah

9. Marcos Maidana2- clearly beats a very hit real contender who gave him hell in 1st fight

10. Arturo Gatti

Sugar Ray Robinson

1. Kid Gavilan2- defends his welterweight title vs a legit all time great

2. Randy Turpin 2- Gets revenge vs a HOF who beat him in 1st fight. Back end of his prime but had to score a ko because fight was about to be stopped on a cut.

3. Gene Fullmer 2- Drops perfect left hook to beat another HOF who gave him fits.

4. Jake Lamotta 6- Wins the middleweight title for the first time vs a legit great fighter in St. Valentine’s Day Massacre

5. Carmen Basilio2

6. Bobo Olson 3- was an underdog and clearly on the decline but kod another HOF to win back middleweight title

7. Rocky Graziano

8. Tommy Bell- wins his first title at welterweight

9. Henry Armstrong

10. Sammy Angott-a victory over the reigning lightweight champion and HOF in a non title fight.

10A. Aaron “Tiger” Wade- There is another myth that Robinson ducked Black Murder’s Row. But the truth is they were all older and bigger than him and he didn’t get a title shot until his 75th fight. He was avoided similar to them. Nevertheless the one he did fight he kod in 3 rounds.

Hello Breadman,

I recently watched some footage of the late Edwin Rosario and was taken aback by his ferocity – especially on the inside.  The dude was a mean fighting machine, but with some good upper body movement (albeit probably could probably be timed after a few rounds in the fight).  How do you see him in a historical sense?

Watched the HBO card this weekend and was left shaking my head at the broadcasting crew – especially Lampley.  First, they anoint Chocolatito as the top P4P, but make it sound as if he’s DONE after the KO loss??  Those guys are either morons, or they think that the viewers are morons by thinking that we bought into Chocolatito’s P4P supremacy just because he fights for HBO.  Any thoughts?

There’s some talk of Cotto vs Mickey Garcia, at least by Garcia and his camp.  What chance do you give the fight taking place?  If it does at….say 152 ish, can Mickey deal with Cotto’s size advantage?

Thanks – keep up the good work.

David

Bread’s Response: Edwin Rosario is one of the 10 best punchers ever at lightweight. He was very resilient coming back from several losses in his prime. I would rank him as a contemporary great for his era, with Chavez, Whitaker and Arguello being the all time greats who graced the lightweight division around that time.

I view Roman Gonzalez as an all time great. All you have to do is watch Juan Estrada fight and realize Roman beat a better version of Estrada in their primes. He won a clean 7 rounds in a great fight.

I always thought Andre Ward was the #1 guy after Floyd and Manny left. But I had no problem with the Roman push. Ward was inactive in 2015.  If any other fighter would have received the #1 P4P push there would be complaints. If Crawford would have received it the critics would have said too soon. They say too soon for Loma now and it’s 2017, so imagine what they would have said in 2015. Rigo was inactive. Kovalev had a case but was he ever really the best? Had he done more than Roman? They criticize GGG’s level of opponent now. He hadn’t fought Jacobs or Brook yet in 2015.

So at the time of his #1 P4P ranking although I thought it should be Andre Ward I wasn’t offended by Gonzalez being the guy. He did get to 46-0, fighting the best available guy consistently. And did I mention he’s the only fighter in history to win titles at 105, 108, 112 and 115. The only one…..So no straw weight ever was able to rise past 112 and win a title. No wonder he reached his ceiling at 115. Everyone else’s ceiling was much lower.

I give Mikey Garcia a good chance to beat Cotto. Mikey is rising up, Cotto is going downward…

Bread,

I love reading your mailbag every week.  I'd read it every day if you had the time.

Please tell me the "aura" around this weekends fight that you are feeling. I can't wait for this fight and have been a HUGE GGG fan since 2012.

I respect your opinion and your "gut instincts" for the boxing game. What's this "aura" you can't shake?

Respectfully,

Dan Grabowski

Bread’s Response: My gut feeling is that Canelo is on. He’s just on point. I feel as though GGG will have to be better than he ever has been in the past to win. I looked at Canelo, he’s locked in differently. I watched his workouts he is really sharp. He has a distinct advantage in mind quickness. The ability to process and react. Although I favor GGG my guts tell me the politics of boxing has lined the stars up for Canelo. The timing of this fight is when one fighter is rising and hot in Canelo. The other has looked stagnant and aging in GGG. One is 27 the other is 35. The fight will take place on a Mexican Holiday Weekend. The crowd will go nuts everytime Canelo lands a shot. He will land plenty. GGG is not hard to hit. Crowd energy is hard to ignore by judges they are human. The mood seems to be against GGG.

I’m picking GGG to win because I know in my heart he’s a great fighter. I know one when I see one.  And he’s going to have to be one to overcome the energy against him. I can’t shake this feeling that the fight will look like Chavez vs Taylor with GGG being Chavez and Canelo being Taylor. The question is can he get him late. Taylor just simply “got off” too much for Chavez. Chavez loses that fight against that version of Taylor 9 out of 10 times. The one time he won it, was the day he won it on. GGG is going to have to have one of those fortunate days on 9-16.  I think he can but I’m warning all of the GGG fans it won’t be easy and early on you guys won’t like how it’s going.

Hi Bread,

Some questions for the guru!

Best trainers in boxing?

Your pick for the cruiserweight tournament?

Pick one glove - Everlast, Grant, Rival or Reyes?

If you were in Andre Ward's team, who would be his next opponent?

Thank you!

Bread’s Response: Best trainers in boxing. I have a few that I think stand out. Eddy Reynoso, Canelo’s trainer is severely underrated but I see fine work. Derrick James, Errol Spence’s trainer is really, really good. I love his step and catch style. Virgil Hunter’s work with Andre Ward is some of the best ever in the history of boxing. Nacho Beristan is still one of the great minds. Freddie Roach can still coach. Shane McGuigan. I think the job he did with Carl Frampton was A+. And Pedro Diaz. Pedro Diaz is exceptional.

Not sure who wins the Cruiserweight tourney. I’m leaning Usyk but he’s no lock. My pick for the super middleweight tourney is more clear cut. Chris Eubank Jr takes it all. Mark it down that kid is the goods and he’s still improving. He wins it all and becomes a star.

I can’t pick a glove because it depends on the type of puncher you are and how your hands are built. If I wanted someone cut up I would pick Everlast MX because of the soft leather and horsehair stuffing. But you need hard hands to wear them. Mikey Garcia and Deontay Wilder wear them.

If you want more protection but still want to crack wear Everlast Power Locks like Danny Jacobs.

If you want thudding power with an old school soft leather wear Reyes like Adonis Stevenson and Danny Garcia.

The rival is the new wave and I like them. You can make almost a complete fist in the softer leather rival like Keith Thurman.

Grant seems to be the most popular these days among the elite fighters. They are also the smallest so they can get through the guard easier. GGG and Errol Spence rock Grants.

I know I’m sick I memorize each glove that the top fighters wear. I even notice when they switch up. Lately Kovalev has been switching up. He’s been all over the place. He used to Krush folks in Reyes. Then he went to Grants. Then he switched to a new version everlast. In his last fight he wore Rival. Gloves are very important.

Andre Ward’s team does not need my input. They seem to make all of the right moves. Knowing Team Ward there next move will be a chess move working toward a big fight. So watch the move closely.

boxing

Hey Breadman. I really enjoyed the Superfly card that HBO put on this past weekend. I thought the most impressive fight of the night was the Cuadras vs. Estrada fight. I appreciated the flashy puncher vs. methodical veteran angle that the commentating crew kept pushing. I thought it was a fight that could have gone either way, but I do agree with the decision that Estrada did enough in the second half of the fight to win. It sort of reminded me of the first 3 fights between Pacquiao and Marquez where the flashy, faster fighter got off to a blazing start but the more technical fighter came roaring back in the second half of the fight. I wasn't all that impressed with the Monster although I do agree that he may be a special talent. Wouldn't mind seeing him in there with Suringvisai in maybe 2 more fights. The cat is out of the bag now and Gonzalez is clearly past his prime. He has had many high contact wars, and I believe the first fight with Suringvisai took more out of him than we all realized. I do believe he could drop down in weight and have some success but fighters are going to follow the blueprint and throw hard shots upstairs and downstairs. He seems worn out. He looked slow and plodding in this rematch. On another note I don't appreciate Jim Lampley's comments about how maybe Mayweather can fight a woman next. It's not because I'm a Floyd fan, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Lampley have domestic violence problems of his own? It really is the pot calling the kettle black for Lampley to make comments like that even if it is said in jest. A bit of self reflection would be appropriate in this situation. I don't understand Jim Lampley's problem with Mayweather. When Floyd was an HBO fighter Lampley was all over his balls. When Floyd made a business decision and went over to Showtime to start fighting for larger purses Lampley got all butt hurt out of nowhere and all of a sudden became Larry Merchant with his Mayweather commentary. I'm sure Lampley is paid well by HBO and the HBO commentating crew is the best in the business. He should be above the petty stuff and focus on how great of a year it has been for the sport of boxing and look forward to the continued success of the sport. A fight that relates to the Estrada vs. Cuadras fight is Canelo vs. Triple G. Canelo will be the flashier cockier fighter in the ring and Triple G will be the more methodical guy. However if Triple G can't hurt Canelo and Canelo can give as good he gets I think that Canelo will win a decision. He is the money maker for a long time to come for both HBO and Las Vegas and I believe Triple G can't win a decision unless he completely dominates. You are correct that whenever a fight has been close Canelo gets the benefit of the doubt. Triple G must be aware of this and try to put some real hurt on Canelo and make him back up all fight long if he can't hurt or stop him.

-Chris from Chicago

Bread’s Response: I was very impressed with Juan Estrada. There is a saying among special fighters that the fight doesn’t start until the 4th round. Class shows over time. Cuadras is still elite also..Only a great talent can come back how Estrada did. That was special stuff.

I didn’t like Gonzalez looked vs Arroyo. That performance stuck with me. I also kept saying the plastic suits he trained in were no bueno. He seemed to be stressing in fights. He was pushing to a point of depletion. His peak is his peak and it’s gone now. In his divisions, with his style and age it’s about right for a fighter doing VADA to decline. Can’t wait to see him in the HOF. I don’t want to see him get hurt. If he needs a sauna suit to make 115, how can he make 112. He either needs a new team or he needs to retire.

I didn’t read Jim Lampley’s comments on Floyd. I really don’t know what to say if he said that. Before I comment let me try to find the interview so I can see what context he said it in. Domestic Violence is a slippery slope and I would rather stay away from things like that if I can.

Good analogy between Estrada/GGG vs Cuadras/Canelo. You notice the methodical fighter needs that miracle finish.

Hi breadman hope all is well. I've noticed you don't shy away from the PED talks. I think that's important because there are many users out there that would wish the PED conversation would go away. I know that publicly a person cannot just come out and accuse someone, without proof, of using PEDs due to legal reasons. However, anonymously people are free to speculate. In other sports, when an athlete is outed, such as lance Armstrong or Barry bonds, we kind of look back in our rear view mirrors and say "well that was obvious", or "why didn't we realize that at the time". When athletes in their advancing years start showing super human abilities such as Armstrong, it should of been a giant red flag. When a guy like Barry bonds, who was always a slender athlete up until mid mid 30's, suddenly turns into the Incredible Hulk and goes from a 25 home run guy into a 60 home run guy, should set off alarms. We all turned a blind eye. We believed the "because of my hard training" and the "years of dedication" talk that these guys used. Sound familiar?  Feels a lot like today's boxing to me. Let me ask a question. If Anthony joshua tested positive for some sort of PED, would the boxing community be shocked?  I don't think so. I think all the Monday morning quarterbacks would come out saying that they had called it all along and that his physique couldn't of been natural. However right now, I don't think there is much suspicion surrounding Joshua. Ray Beltran went from a light punching sparring partner to a devastating puncher and drew no suspicion until he was caught (maybe more than once) using PEDs. Yes, it seems so obvious in hind sight. The Charlo brothers couldn't knock a cereal box off the table as prospects while fighting a low level of competition.  Now they are fighting the upper echelon of fighters in their division, they look like the second coming of the Hitman. As you know that's not the norm. Not to mention their massive weight fluctuations. Speaking of massive weight cuts, let's talk about Canelo. This guy drains and then rehydrates more than any fighter I can remember. Not long ago Canelo was having stamina issues which somehow he has corrected. Let's be honest. Canelo had been ducking GGG for the last few years. I've always thought canelo's physique has been concerning, but since the GGG fightn has been made he has become even more muscular than ever. He's walking around like a little red headed Mr. T. I have heard a lot of chatter about his recent body transformation but I haven't heard any rumors swirling about PED use. Is everyone just overlooking the obvious like we did with the other athletes?  You've mentioned the fake war on PED use in boxing. I agree with that but I also think we can't rely on the commission to clean it up. I think the best thing is to keep talking about it and treating everyone as suspect.

Honorable mention goes to Marquez, mayweather and pacquio

Bread’s Response: I have no problem talking about PEDs and I’m glad you wrote in. I have my private suspicions about several fighters I’m just not going to accuse a fighter who hasn’t failed a test. The war on PEDs is as fake as a $3 bill. If “they” really wanted to catch one of the cheats just run up on them when they don’t have a fight on the books. That’s the biggest juice cycle. Others in boxing don’t talk about it because they know they aren’t clean themselves.

The toughest part is ethics. If you know you’re opponent is dirty, what do you do? Do you juice too? Or do you pray and fight? I’m not GOD I don’t know the right answer. Some clean athletes watch dirty athletes take their spots with bigger contracts and mainstream fame. So they join in and cheat also. It’s a tough spot to be in.

I’m actually glad Jon Jones got caught because it shows a fighter NOT get rewarded for cheating. In boxing obvious cheaters get rewarded. Boxing has not caught a fighter the level of Jones cheating. There are fighters on Jone’s level who are cheating. And the ones who have been caught have not suffered a severe punishment. An example will have to be made to stop it. Lifetime ban, criminal charges or a crippling lawsuit.

One more thing and I will keep saying this. The easiest way to spot a cheater in boxing is to watch the guy who has the influence and power to test and he chooses NOT to. Whoever falls into that category is most likely cheating.

Canelo and GGG are testing VADA for their fight. That’s a good thing. But it’s not the only thing. When the actual testing started is more important. If a fighter knows when he will be tested he can simply do a cycle before they sign up for testing. Watch for the fighter that secretly trains really hard long before the fight is signed. It may look like he’s going to overtrain 3 months out but he won’t. He’s getting the benefit of his PED before the testing starts. Now you’re onto something….

I know it's GGG vs Canelo week but I have question about Floyd Mayweather. I have noticed that Canelo sort of Swagger Jacked Floyd's style. He uses the shoulder roll and other Mayweather tools. My question is will he use Floyd's jab to the body? And also how do you rate Floyd's jab all time? I saw a list of your great jabbers and he didn't make it.

Bread's Response: Lol Swagger Jack. You must be from the West Coast my man. Canelo has used some of Floyd's game and incorporated into his own. but all fighters take things from great fighters. He's supposed to do that.

I can see him using that stab jab to the navel that Floyd throws. It could work.

Floyd has a great jab. He didn't use it as often when he got older but his jab was exceptional. He had really long arms for a junior lightweight and he used to jab those guys heads off.

His actual jab to the body is the best I have ever seen. That particular jab is the best in the history of boxing. He uses it better than anybody has before or after him.

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Tags: boxing image  
User Comments and Feedback (Register For Free To Comment) Comment by Deletrious on 09-18-2017

[QUOTE=Eff Pandas;18064029]Anyone know how Bread scored GGG vs Canelo?[/QUOTE] I checked his twitter, thinking same thing. He didn't score it round by round but thought Golovkin won.

Comment by Eff Pandas on 09-18-2017

Anyone know how Bread scored GGG vs Canelo?

Comment by LomaLovkin on 09-18-2017

[QUOTE=future hendrixx;18052672]its better for boxing if canelo wins. he has at least 15 more years in him. ggg is gonna fade out in another 3-5 years. he was usually fighting 3-4 times a year then finally steps up competition once…

Comment by eternalfighter on 09-18-2017

Camacho was in his prime when Chavez beat him. They both started around the same time and Camacho still fought for many years after that fight.

Comment by kushking on 09-16-2017

[QUOTE=aboutfkntime;18053363]yea I disagree with the notion that Robinson would simply outwork/overwhelm Mayweather not saying that Robinson couldn't beat Mayweather Floyd was a damaging puncher in the lighter weights..... and he still had that almost impenetrable defence, and he still had…

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