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Old 08-07-2006, 06:56 PM #1
fistlegend fistlegend is offline
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Default 1974 Ali vs 1963 Ali

Ok, which version of Ali is better? The one that beat Sonny Liston [1963] or the one that beat George Foreman [1974].

Ali once said during his hyping of the Foreman fight that he is better now then he was when he was challenging Sonny liston for the title, but what do you think?

IMO, The 1963 Ali, He had a speed + endurance + better reflexes advantage, but the 1974 ali had more experiece [ring science] + alittle more power
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:11 PM #2
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Well, first off, Ali or Clay fought Liston in '64, not '63; but I know what you mean.

And, I'll say this, Ali after the layoff did not punch as hard as he did beforehand due to hand problems. Dr. Pachecho has said that after the layoff, Ali's hands hurt him constantly and he had to give Ali shots of novacane between each knuckle before every fight in his second career.

That being said, Clay in 1964, was faster, hit harder, and was decidely more mobile than Ali was post 1970. Who would win?

I'd have to favor Clay. Ali had more experience it's true; but he wasn't a great stalker, so to speak, in his second career. In his first career he danced circles around guys; but he also attacked while he danced...something an old Ali didn't really do.

I'd pick Clay to win by a decision.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:17 PM #3
THE REAL NINJA THE REAL NINJA is offline
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For right now i'll go with the upset and say that Ali uses some type of rope a dope on himself.yes he hit harder and was faster but old Ali had so much more knowledge and seemed to me to be calm in the ring where as clay was more hyper and in a rush to make the ko happen in round he called .
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:19 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE REAL NINJA
For right now i'll go with the upset and say that Ali uses some type of rope a dope on himself.yes he hit harder and was faster but old Ali had so much more knowledge and seemed to me to be calm in the ring where as clay was more hyper and in a rush to make the ko happen in round he called .
Good point. I didn't even take into consideration that Ali knew everything about Clay; but Clay knows nothing about Ali. Knowledge is a huge advantage....and Ali could conceivably time Clay coming in because he'd know he would come in before Clay would.

Can I change my vote?
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:43 PM #5
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I think the 74 Ali would win.

Although 66 Ali is the best.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:14 PM #6
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I like the 1971 Ali. Dr. Pachecho said that if Ali would have rested an additional two months after fighting Bonavena (so fighting Frazier in May instead of March of 1971), he would have won. Pachecho said he needed time to recover after the two "tune-up" fights and then train afterwards, but because the Supreme Court hasn't made a judgement yet, Ali didn't know if he would be in jail by May. He decided to not follow Pachecho's advice and fight first so he can get the money as early as possible. In 1971, he was bigger and stronger than in 1964, a little slower but still a fast heavyweight. And in 1971 his hands weren't hurting yet.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:13 PM #7
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I think 64' Ali was better. He was faster, stronger, etc. He was physically the better fighter but 74' Ali was mentally stronger.

my vote goes for 64'
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:58 PM #8
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Quote:
Dr. Pachecho said
"Doctor" Pacheco is full of ****, and came up with excuse after excuse every time Ali either lost or had a tough fight. I bet if you asked Yank Durham and Eddie Futch how the fight would have gone down in May instead of March, they'd say Frazier would win. Imagine that.
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Old 08-08-2006, 12:05 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frazier's 15th round
"Doctor" Pacheco is full of ****, and came up with excuse after excuse every time Ali either lost or had a tough fight. I bet if you asked Yank Durham and Eddie Futch how the fight would have gone down in May instead of March, they'd say Frazier would win. Imagine that.

Why would you put the word doctor in quotes? He IS a doctor and he DOES have a PhD.
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Old 08-08-2006, 01:11 AM #10
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I don't know 64' Ali was still a bit green while 74 ali had a bit more ring expierence and overall was smarter...On the other hand 64 Ali had more stamina and handspeed/footwork, while 74 Ali was a bit slower and tired faster....It's hard to tell honestly because its youth vs smarts...

74 Ali had a better chin (more physically matured), and arguabley more heart while 64 Ali had speed, stamina and all that....
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