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#1
Old 03-10-2006, 08:24 AM
tjmoney
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Default Old School vs. New School

Now I know i havent been a member here for too long but I have been reading these forums as well as others for quite sometime and if theres one thing that I've noticed about boxing boards as oposed to other sports is that older fighters are always put in much higher regard than any new fighters. I'm not saying that everyone's guilty of doing this. I'm just saying that it happens in every thread on here. I mean whats the point of having threads about new school fighters vs. old school fighters if everyone uses it as an excuse to trash the new school guys. I mean lets be honest you know something is wrong when you have 20 people not giving the best heavyweight in the last 20 years, Lennox Lewis, even a chance in hell against guys like Foreman and even Marciano. I mean I know the older guys have been gone longer so its easier to forget their faults and glorify their strengths but i mean come on is it that hard to give the Lewis's, Tyson's and Holyfield's their due respect? I know Tyson and Holyfield stayed around a lot longer than they should have, well with Tyson maybe only a couple fights, but damn, Evander still wants to go and enough is enough already. But joking aside almost every great fighter has stayed on well past his prime and i guess with time the sight of seeing their older deteriorated selves has gone from our memory banks but lets not hold this against the guys of today just because their more recent in our heads. Thoughts, Comments?
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#2
Old 03-10-2006, 07:20 PM
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that does kinda make since in a *****y sort of way. post some more.
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#3
Old 08-07-2011, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tjmoney View Post
Now I know i havent been a member here for too long but I have been reading these forums as well as others for quite sometime and if theres one thing that I've noticed about boxing boards as oposed to other sports is that older fighters are always put in much higher regard than any new fighters. I'm not saying that everyone's guilty of doing this. I'm just saying that it happens in every thread on here. I mean whats the point of having threads about new school fighters vs. old school fighters if everyone uses it as an excuse to trash the new school guys. I mean lets be honest you know something is wrong when you have 20 people not giving the best heavyweight in the last 20 years, Lennox Lewis, even a chance in hell against guys like Foreman and even Marciano. I mean I know the older guys have been gone longer so its easier to forget their faults and glorify their strengths but i mean come on is it that hard to give the Lewis's, Tyson's and Holyfield's their due respect? I know Tyson and Holyfield stayed around a lot longer than they should have, well with Tyson maybe only a couple fights, but damn, Evander still wants to go and enough is enough already. But joking aside almost every great fighter has stayed on well past his prime and i guess with time the sight of seeing their older deteriorated selves has gone from our memory banks but lets not hold this against the guys of today just because their more recent in our heads. Thoughts, Comments?
I beleive that many old timers were better and WERE tougher then, but there are some who'd go well from our time too ( 1976 - Now in my case. I beleive the talent pool was a lot deeper in the first half of the century.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
I beleive that many old timers were better and WERE tougher then, but there are some who'd go well from our time too ( 1976 - Now in my case. I beleive the talent pool was a lot deeper in the first half of the century.


I agree 100% with fighters being tougher back then, but there are plenty of good fighters today who could compete in any era. The difference as you pointed out is the depth of the talent pool between then and now. There were just so many more well rounded and skilled fighters back in earlier era's than today.

I was arguing on another board last week and a poster claimed today's era as much better because boxing is more world wide and Europe's eastern bloc countries are now able to compete professionally. He went as far as to say if Russian's were able to go pro in the 60's and 70's no one would have heard of the Ali's, Frazier's and Foreman's. That was quickly put to rest when the poster Steak put of video's of these fighters beating the best Europeans as amateurs.

The problem with that poster's assumption though was first, boxing may have more countries competing professionally today, but it really isn't anymore worldwide when you look at the numbers of professional fighters from past era's in comparison to today. The invent of cable and satellite tv just make it seem that way because you can find boxing on many more channels around the world as well as the internet. And two, The United States was dominant not because of tougher or more talented fighters (toughness and talent can be found everywhere) but because of the amount of quality trainers that have been developed over years when boxing was the second most popular sport only to baseball. The rest of the world has now caught up because boxing's popularity in the US has fallen off, so has the amount of top notch quality trainers. But even today many of the world's most talented fighters still come here to be trained by the few men left who actually know how to train a fighter in the many skills of boxing rather than just teaching them how to punch and get in shape. THAT, in my opinion, is why fighters are not as good across the board today in comparison to past era's. Less quality trainer's means less quality fighters.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:01 PM
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I agree 100% with fighters being tougher back then, but there are plenty of good fighters today who could compete in any era. The difference as you pointed out is the depth of the talent pool between then and now. There were just so many more well rounded and skilled fighters back in earlier era's than today.

I was arguing on another board last week and a poster claimed today's era as much better because boxing is more world wide and Europe's eastern bloc countries are now able to compete professionally. He went as far as to say if Russian's were able to go pro in the 60's and 70's no one would have heard of the Ali's, Frazier's and Foreman's. That was quickly put to rest when the poster Steak put of video's of these fighters beating the best Europeans as amateurs.

The problem with that poster's assumption though was first, boxing may have more countries competing professionally today, but it really isn't anymore worldwide when you look at the numbers of professional fighters from past era's in comparison to today. The invent of cable and satellite tv just make it seem that way because you can find boxing on many more channels around the world as well as the internet. And two, The United States was dominant not because of tougher or more talented fighters (toughness and talent can be found everywhere) but because of the amount of quality trainers that have been developed over years when boxing was the second most popular sport only to baseball. The rest of the world has now caught up because boxing's popularity in the US has fallen off, so has the amount of top notch quality trainers. But even today many of the world's most talented fighters still come here to be trained by the few men left who actually know how to train a fighter in the many skills of boxing rather than just teaching them how to punch and get in shape. THAT, in my opinion, is why fighters are not as good across the board today in comparison to past era's. Less quality trainer's means less quality fighters.
Good stuff Jab. One thing that makes a big difference for the depth of the boxing business is club fights. Promoters in big cities running weekly shows. That's not happening now, at least not in the US. Boxers used to be able to work as much as they wanted with so many cards around the country. Now they have to wait for a TV date to open. That causes them to get soft and need more conditioning. In the current era the best we can hope for is weekly TV fights (ESPN, Telefutura, etc.) to breed new stars for the sport.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:09 PM
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Good stuff Jab. One thing that makes a big difference for the depth of the boxing business is club fights. Promoters in big cities running weekly shows. That's not happening now, at least not in the US. Boxers used to be able to work as much as they wanted with so many cards around the country. Now they have to wait for a TV date to open. That causes them to get soft and need more conditioning. In the current era the best we can hope for is weekly TV fights (ESPN, Telefutura, etc.) to breed new stars for the sport.

I've had this argument on more than one occasion also. Newer fans are fond of claiming fighters who fought that many fights were fighting mostly bums. I see it as fighting many different styles over and over to hone your skills. You just can't get that in the gym sparring with the same guys over and ove
r.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:27 PM
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I've had this argument on more than one occasion also. Newer fans are fond of claiming fighters who fought that many fights were fighting mostly bums. I see it as fighting many different styles over and over to hone your skills. You just can't get that in the gym sparring with the same guys over and over
.
And there's a HUGE difference between sparring and lacing 'em up for real.

Poet
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:04 AM
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Talent pool talent pool talent pool

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/DHB/Tyler012010.htm

"Today there are less than half the number of professional fighters that there was in 1955. In the 1920's there were more professional fighters licensed in New York city than there are licensed in the entire world today."

There's just much less chance of us getting another Ray Robinson or Ali out of a much smaller talent pool.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
Talent pool talent pool talent pool

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/DHB/Tyler012010.htm

"Today there are less than half the number of professional fighters that there was in 1955. In the 1920's there were more professional fighters licensed in New York city than there are licensed in the entire world today."

There's just much less chance of us getting another Ray Robinson or Ali out of a much smaller talent pool.

Have you read that book? I think Im going to look it up and order it right now, looks very interesting.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:04 AM
Capaedia
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Have you read that book? I think Im going to look it up and order it right now, looks very interesting.
No, but I will too, at some point.

With a box of tissues
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