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#1
Old 10-03-2013, 02:48 AM
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Post Comments Thread For: Measured Against All Time: Rafael Marquez

By Cliff Rold - Some find it sad when old champions fall to the hands of time and younger men. It can be. It can also be fitting. The phrase “going out on their shield” carries special meaning. The fighters willing to do that earn a special place in the hearts of the masses.

In his last two contests, former 118 and 122 lb. champion Rafael Marquez went out on his shield. The fighting spirit remained. The fighting ability had waned too much. Efrain Esquivias knocked out the 38-year old Marquez in the ninth round on September 7, 2013. Eighteen years before, insanely matched with a former champion in his pro debut, he was stopped in eight.

He came out the way he came in, a warrior through and through, fighting until the fight was beaten out of him.

Some might call it sad.

But there is honor in a career, and even an exit, like Marquez’s. He pondered retirement in the ring after the Esquivias fight. On September 20, it was reported by Salvador Rodriguez of ESPN Deportes that Marquez made the official announcement. Assuming this retirement holds and he is now at the end, it was for him a fitting conclusion.

With Marquez clearly past that inevitable point of no return, it is an honor for those who observed his exciting career to ask: [Click Here To Read More]
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#2
Old 10-03-2013, 06:32 AM
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Rafa M vs all time would've been early ko losses vs 2 guys lie Zamora & Zarate...
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#3
Old 10-03-2013, 07:42 AM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Rafa M vs all time would've been early ko losses vs 2 guys lie Zamora & Zarate...
I agree on Zarate but I think he and Zamora might have made for a great fight.
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#4
Old 10-03-2013, 12:22 PM
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Cool

No offense to Efrain Esquivias but Rafa would've mopped the floor with him in his prime; hopefully Rafa realizes this and finally decides to hang em' up. You gave us the best tetralogy in boxing, you will always be remembered.
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#5
Old 10-03-2013, 04:59 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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No offense to Efrain Esquivias but Rafa would've mopped the floor with him in his prime; hopefully Rafa realizes this and finally decides to hang em' up. You gave us the best tetralogy in boxing, you will always be remembered.
No doubt. They all get old.
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#6
Old 10-03-2013, 05:04 PM
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good write up, Cliff...agreed with the final assessment; not an ATG but has a solid argument for the Hall
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#7
Old 10-03-2013, 05:07 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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good write up, Cliff...agreed with the final assessment; not an ATG but has a solid argument for the Hall
There are guys like Hamed I would vote in before but he ultimately will belong.
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#8
Old 10-03-2013, 05:08 PM
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Not a first ballot should eventually get in. Nit an ATG though
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#9
Old 10-03-2013, 07:49 PM
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Default how about Jeff Fenech and legacy?

Love this series Cliff, and this is another damn good one too. In fact,this one got me rethinking one of my favorite 80's fighters and his tricky legacy, and that's Jeff Fenech. Funny guy who had no real boxing background and found himself robbed (perhaps the Gold too) in the Olympics and probably had a good a shot as anyone had in that time period to win a major belt in his pro debut....though he's much more than a face-first mauler he's often confused for, he also wasn't getting too much slicker than he already was at that point and he was just too much for most guys...ever real good ones that early. Unquestionably in my mind, this dude was an all-timer for tenacity, will and educated pressure/street smart fighting by using way under-appreciated bullying acuem and his shoulders and stalking and sheer physical strength to cut off the ring and simply overwhelming far superior technicians....check the early Zarragoza (wow, close, but wow), Coffee (not so close) and Olympic revenge destruction of Stevie McCrory's pro career. Not satisfied...?check his career best wins over the super-talented and undefeated Thai living legend, Samart Payakaroon....or his last great fight against the no-joke Victor Callejas at FW----not to mention Villasana, and nobody walked over that dude ! He just wore these guys out and nearly killed Samart and Callejus too. We all know what happened after that...and though he was my favorite fighter I saw the Mario Martinez fight before the Nelson mega battle...and if Martinez had showed him a little less respect, I think he'd have knocked Jeff out...cause that LH put a lot of undentable chins on their ass---save the best of them all, Chavez. At 130 he was after title number four, and I loved Nelson and thought Jeff would get knocked out off of that last performance coming out of retirement with Martinez....but you know what, Nelson can say whatever he wants about his health or motivation in that first fight, but he lost that fight because he was simply out-toughed and out-maned by a guy who just wouldn't stop coming at him.Fenech had him hurt a bunch and dead out on his feet in the 12th and he backed off there at the last minute out of respect for a great fighter.In turn he got jobbed right off the that-smelled-bad charts on the cards, and was never, ever anything the same fighter. Nelson cemented his doom and his own legacy quick in the rematch, and it only got worse for Jeff after that....IMO, if Fenech was right, I think he maybe takes the rematch (maybe not too) and just eventually smothers and kills Grove (who was a real smoothy with great feints who somehow fell in love with his "power" until he tried that **** at 140 against another Australia HOFer in KostyaTszyu who just blew him out of the ring). I also think had he beat Nelson he snatches a tough number five against the tough, but beatable Halladay at lightweight......and Fenech was NOT a small LW either, as he had the frame to go up to 140 and be very good.....maybe even competitive at 147 too, but that's all conjecture and what-ifs as his chin and invincibility-confidence had long gone by then....... and for his sake, maybe it's good he didn't get the nod with Nelson because there was crazt talk of him going right to Peawee's playhouse at lightweight where he most surredly would've been very baddly outclassed and most likely stopped by Whittiker who actually had a mean streak and some pop if pressed too much... thoughts?
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#10
Old 10-03-2013, 08:01 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Love this series Cliff, and this is another damn good one too. In fact,this one got me rethinking one of my favorite 80's fighters and his tricky legacy, and that's Jeff Fenech. Funny guy who had no real boxing background and found himself robbed (perhaps the Gold too) in the Olympics and probably had a good a shot as anyone had in that time period to win a major belt in his pro debut....though he's much more than a face-first mauler he's often confused for, he also wasn't getting too much slicker than he already was at that point and he was just too much for most guys...ever real good ones that early. Unquestionably in my mind, this dude was an all-timer for tenacity, will and educated pressure/street smart fighting by using way under-appreciated bullying acuem and his shoulders and stalking and sheer physical strength to cut off the ring and simply overwhelming far superior technicians....check the early Zarragoza (wow, close, but wow), Coffee (not so close) and Olympic revenge destruction of Stevie McCrory's pro career. Not satisfied...?check his career best wins over the super-talented and undefeated Thai living legend, Samart Payakaroon....or his last great fight against the no-joke Victor Callejas at FW----not to mention Villasana, and nobody walked over that dude ! He just wore these guys out and nearly killed Samart and Callejus too. We all know what happened after that...and though he was my favorite fighter I saw the Mario Martinez fight before the Nelson mega battle...and if Martinez had showed him a little less respect, I think he'd have knocked Jeff out...cause that LH put a lot of undentable chins on their ass---save the best of them all, Chavez. At 130 he was after title number four, and I loved Nelson and thought Jeff would get knocked out off of that last performance coming out of retirement with Martinez....but you know what, Nelson can say whatever he wants about his health or motivation in that first fight, but he lost that fight because he was simply out-toughed and out-maned by a guy who just wouldn't stop coming at him.Fenech had him hurt a bunch and dead out on his feet in the 12th and he backed off there at the last minute out of respect for a great fighter.In turn he got jobbed right off the that-smelled-bad charts on the cards, and was never, ever anything the same fighter. Nelson cemented his doom and his own legacy quick in the rematch, and it only got worse for Jeff after that....IMO, if Fenech was right, I think he maybe takes the rematch (maybe not too) and just eventually smothers and kills Grove (who was a real smoothy with great feints who somehow fell in love with his "power" until he tried that **** at 140 against another Australia HOFer in KostyaTszyu who just blew him out of the ring). I also think had he beat Nelson he snatches a tough number five against the tough, but beatable Halladay at lightweight......and Fenech was NOT a small LW either, as he had the frame to go up to 140 and be very good.....maybe even competitive at 147 too, but that's all conjecture and what-ifs as his chin and invincibility-confidence had long gone by then....... and for his sake, maybe it's good he didn't get the nod with Nelson because there was crazt talk of him going right to Peawee's playhouse at lightweight where he most surredly would've been very baddly outclassed and most likely stopped by Whittiker who actually had a mean streak and some pop if pressed too much... thoughts?
One of the best pressure fighters of his era. And fought in the right era. His hand issues would have limited him more in another age. I recall when they talked about he and Pea. I would have loved to see it. I don't think he could have won but if he gets the decision against Nelson (that still pisses me off), he would have been a different fighter mentally. They broke Fenech that night. He was never the same.
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