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#101
Old 05-06-2013, 12:48 PM
joseph5620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England;13333162[U
]his win over ray robinson is greater than anything floyd's got on his resume.[/U]

now, that said, robinson avenged that loss five times, with a ref stoppage in there, back when you needed to really batter a durable fighter to get a fight stopped. floyd's a more accomplished / greater fighter than jake lamotta.


floyd mayweather's got a lengthy resume of less than top historic competition, but he's been a championship level fighter since the 90's, fighting most of his best competition along the way. his comp has been good - very good, but rarely, if ever great. he's never fought a great WW in his prime.

he's a top 50 fighter, for sure, but there are holes in his resume, mostly stemming from his lack of top flight competion. you can only fight who they put in front of you, certainly, but that can't outweigh the importance of resume that actually have great fighters on them.
I think If Lamotta get's credit for beating Robinson, Mayweather should get credit for dominating Marquez after a two year lay off. Lamotta was two weight divisions above Robinson by today's standards.
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#102
Old 05-06-2013, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
I think If Lamotta get's credit for beating Robinson, Mayweather should get credit for dominating Marquez after a two year lay off. Lamotta was two weight divisions above Robinson by today's standards.
Marquez isn't the widely-regarded GOAT, though, nor was he comfortable at Welterweight at the time of the Mayweather fight.
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#103
Old 05-06-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
his win over ray robinson is greater than anything floyd's got on his resume.

now, that said, robinson avenged that loss five times, with a ref stoppage in there, back when you needed to really batter a durable fighter to get a fight stopped. floyd's a more accomplished / greater fighter than jake lamotta.


floyd mayweather's got a lengthy resume of less than top historic competition, but he's been a championship level fighter since the 90's, fighting most of his best competition along the way. his comp has been good - very good, but rarely, if ever great. he's never fought a great WW in his prime.

he's a top 50 fighter, for sure, but there are holes in his resume, mostly stemming from his lack of top flight competion. you can only fight who they put in front of you, certainly, but that can't outweigh the importance of resume that actually have great fighters on them.
I agree with that but i think while resume is very important (and this is what holds Floyd back in my own rankings to a point) it cant be everything. P4P is mythical, there is no right and wrong really and given its subjective nature i think how u imagine fighters would match up head to head if they were the same size and other factors like that come into the argument as well.
An example, If Valuev actually punch his weight and had some speed he would have been lethal, now had he reigned for years and beat lots of great but far smaller challengers he might be the best heavyweight ever but i still wouldn't rate him p4p because he'd just be getting by on his size, his skill matched against a fighter with the same physical attributes would fail him
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#104
Old 05-06-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
I think If Lamotta get's credit for beating Robinson, Mayweather should get credit for dominating Marquez after a two year lay off. Lamotta was two weight divisions above Robinson by today's standards.


robinson's widely considered a top 4 MW of all time. greb, robinson, monzon, and hagler. many have him as the best MW of all time. he was a five time MW champion down the road. he was almost 6 feet tall, had knockout power, a great chin, and a long reach. he wasn't physically and stylistically outmatched, the way marquez was. he was also in his prime, when marquez was clearly beyond his.


comparing the two wins isn't close to fair, IMO. marquez didn't whip floyd's ass five times later on, or do anything big at WW other than knocking out a natural 135-140 lber at the end of his career, and get robbed of a W in the third fight.
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#105
Old 05-06-2013, 01:50 PM
ironalex
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Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
We were posting about Mayweather and your statement was evidently directed at my high-rating of him as that's all we've been discussing you utter retard.

You think Jack Dempsey and Aaron Pryor are greater than Mayweather, get out of here you misinformed/stupid cunt.
Yes we were talking about mayweather retard but your complete lack of I knowledge and/or man crush of fmj astounds me. I was saying dumb people like u who bet on fights make my odds better, I didn't say mayweather a fights you fool. Now, would you like me to teach you the ABC's?

Aaron Pryor would have beaten floyd jr I'm certain of that, and currently - both his wins over arguello > any of mayweathers wins. It's only because the hawk was avoided like the plague by the ray Leonard's of this world people don't know him as much. Secondly again, Dempsey p4p is one of the heaviest punchers of all time if not the heaviest, and was tough as nails- that alone stands you in extreme good stead over anyone! It's a fight not just boxing, boxing wise yes mayweathers fantastic, but he would get drawn Into a fight by many of the boxers I've mentioned, and when he gets drawn he wouldn't be able to do ****
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#106
Old 05-06-2013, 01:56 PM
BennyST
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Originally Posted by Pacquiaoifyable View Post
Just touching on the point Barburner made about Floyd's prime being between 130-140. I disagree with that.

Physically, he's probably just as good now as he was 10 years ago and he's a lot smarter and experienced now than he was about 10 years ago. I think we're seeing Mayweather in his prime right now, more or less.
Nah, he was much better at 130-140 than he is now. Much, much faster, hit harder, more offensive, still very, very difficult to tag. He was clearly a better fighter below 147.
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#107
Old 05-06-2013, 01:58 PM
joseph5620
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Originally Posted by Pacquiaoifyable View Post
Marquez isn't the widely-regarded GOAT, though, nor was he comfortable at Welterweight at the time of the Mayweather fight.



That wasn't my point. I was speaking in regards to the weight. Marquez is no Robinson but he's a great fighter in my opinion. Marquez not being comfortable at the weight is an excuse more than anything else, Marquez can obviously fight at the weight as witnessed against Pacquiao. The weight didn't beat Marquez against Mayweather. The counter punching, defense, and speed did him in which is why Marquez does not want a rematch.
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#108
Old 05-06-2013, 02:04 PM
BennyST
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Originally Posted by ironalex View Post
Yes we were talking about mayweather retard but your complete lack of I knowledge and/or man crush of fmj astounds me. I was saying dumb people like u who bet on fights make my odds better, I didn't say mayweather a fights you fool. Now, would you like me to teach you the ABC's?

Aaron Pryor would have beaten floyd jr I'm certain of that, and currently - both his wins over arguello > any of mayweathers wins. It's only because the hawk was avoided like the plague by the ray Leonard's of this world people don't know him as much. Secondly again, Dempsey p4p is one of the heaviest punchers of all time if not the heaviest, and was tough as nails- that alone stands you in extreme good stead over anyone! It's a fight not just boxing, boxing wise yes mayweathers fantastic, but he would get drawn Into a fight by many of the boxers I've mentioned, and when he gets drawn he wouldn't be able to do ****
...and there goes the credibility. Christ mate, if you're going to bring up complete myths that are utterly false, and only repeated by idiots that just go by BS rumour and innuendo as fact, at least make a sensible point behind it.



Let me guess, ali only beat cooper because Angelo cut his glove, and got him a five minute rest between rounds after being all but knocked out right?

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#109
Old 05-06-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ironalex View Post
Yes we were talking about mayweather retard but your complete lack of I knowledge and/or man crush of fmj astounds me. I was saying dumb people like u who bet on fights make my odds better, I didn't say mayweather a fights you fool. Now, would you like me to teach you the ABC's?
You had no other knowledge of how much I knew about boxing other than this thread, so it's safe to assume you were going strictly from my opinion of Mayweather which evidently wasn't even that high.

Quote:
Aaron Pryor would have beaten floyd jr I'm certain of that, and currently - both his wins over arguello > any of mayweathers wins.
I must've forgot about the tremendous work Arguello done at 140.

Quote:
It's only because the hawk was avoided like the plague by the ray Leonard's
of this world people don't know him as much.
Leonard offered him a career high payday of 500k and Pryor refused it.

Quote:
Secondly again, Dempsey p4p is one of the heaviest punchers of all time if not the heaviest, and was tough as nails- that alone stands you in extreme good stead over anyone! It's a fight not just boxing, boxing wise yes mayweathers fantastic, but he would get drawn Into a fight by many of the boxers I've mentioned, and when he gets drawn he wouldn't be able to do ****
Hitting hard and being able to get hit a lot does not make you greater than FMJr. Dempsey also didn't fight a lot during his pathetic excuse of a reign and ducked Harry Greb and Harry Wills, blatantly I might add.

What fights of Floyd's has he been drawn into a brawl or "fight" that you've seen recently?
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#110
Old 05-06-2013, 03:37 PM
ironalex
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Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
You had no other knowledge of how much I knew about boxing other than this thread, so it's safe to assume you were going strictly from my opinion of Mayweather which evidently wasn't even that high.


I must've forgot about the tremendous work Arguello done at 140.


Leonard offered him a career high payday of 500k and Pryor refused it.



Hitting hard and being able to get hit a lot does not make you greater than FMJr. Dempsey also didn't fight a lot during his pathetic excuse of a reign and ducked Harry Greb and Harry Wills, blatantly I might add.

What fights of Floyd's has he been drawn into a brawl or "fight" that you've seen recently?
Your ranking of floyd so high confirms to me you know nothing about boxing, and are just a boxrec/google expert. Watch the tapes- stylistically he wouldn't have lived with Pryor. And floyd drawn into a brawl ok... His loss to Castillo and his 60-40 competitive fight with a washed up battle worn cotto
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