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#1
Old 04-09-2013, 05:09 PM
WizardKO
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Default Boxing hasn't really evolved.

The biggest backers of 'modern evolution' when it comes to boxing usually use running records as the basis of their argument. The Olympics prove that athletes are getting better because of records being broken.

The issue is that sprinting in a straight line as hard as you can is about as different from boxing as you can get. Athleticism in many Olympic sports play a much bigger role than athleticism in boxing.

Boxing has always been a character driven sport toned with finesse and skill set. Athleticism helps but it's role is nowhere near as great as the role it plays in other sports.

Some of the major factors for boxing's lack of progression lays in
1- Declining talent pool (Due to decline in popularity, lack of mainstream attention, the rise of other sports)
2- The unwillingness to fight the other top fighters around you.

You get better through practice. You get better through challenges. This is actually the biggest set back to the current heavyweight era. Not that there isn't talent, but that the talents refuse to fight each other hence improving their skills.


3- The lack of great trainers. Infighting has become almost extinct among the bigger men. Imagine Tyson Fury with Riddick Bowe's infighting abilities? I will say he is ready for Wladmir right now. Head movement and various use of ring tactics has become a lost art to many fighters.


Now the greats today will do well in other eras and vice versa. There is no disputing that. It's mainly the 2nd tier fighters that have shown a severe decline. Matthew Saad Muhammad and Lopez compared to the Adonis Stevensons of today is no comparison at all.




A case of modern progression:


The big four of the super heavys is the one case of modern progression.
Lewis-Wlad-Vitali-Bowe are 4 fighters 6'5+ and 240+ with elite level skills and the size to go with it. This is what actual progression is. Getting bigger ,but still with the skillset to go with the size. (Especially Lewis-Wlad).
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#2
Old 04-09-2013, 05:15 PM
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You would think a 48 year old guy embarrassing all the "modern super athletes" with nothing but skill and ring smarts would convince people that the sport hasn't progressed, and has mostly regressed. Less fighters, less talent, less skills all across the board compared to two decades ago, let alone three or four.

If modern training and technique was making fighters any better, the best fighters in the sport wouldn't be in their mid-thirties and forties, beating the crap out of the young guys.
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#3
Old 04-09-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardKO View Post
The biggest backers of 'modern evolution' when it comes to boxing usually use running records as the basis of their argument. The Olympics prove that athletes are getting better because of records being broken.

The issue is that sprinting in a straight line as hard as you can is about as different from boxing as you can get. Athleticism in many Olympic sports play a much bigger role than athleticism in boxing.

Boxing has always been a character driven sport toned with finesse and skill set. Athleticism helps but it's role is nowhere near as great as the role it plays in other sports.

Some of the major factors for boxing's lack of progression lays in
1- Declining talent pool (Due to decline in popularity, lack of mainstream attention, the rise of other sports)
2- The unwillingness to fight the other top fighters around you.

You get better through practice. You get better through challenges. This is actually the biggest set back to the current heavyweight era. Not that there isn't talent, but that the talents refuse to fight each other hence improving their skills.


3- The lack of great trainers. Infighting has become almost extinct among the bigger men. Imagine Tyson Fury with Riddick Bowe's infighting abilities? I will say he is ready for Wladmir right now. Head movement and various use of ring tactics has become a lost art to many fighters.


Now the greats today will do well in other eras and vice versa. There is no disputing that. It's mainly the 2nd tier fighters that have shown a severe decline. Matthew Saad Muhammad and Lopez compared to the Adonis Stevensons of today is no comparison at all.




A case of modern progression:


The big four of the super heavys is the one case of modern progression.
Lewis-Wlad-Vitali-Bowe are 4 fighters 6'5+ and 240+ with elite level skills and the size to go with it. This is what actual progression is. Getting bigger ,but still with the skillset to go with the size. (Especially Lewis-Wlad).
well there are weight limits so its harder to judge. You really cant jude someone getting bigger and stronger when there are weight limits. For example you named those 4 HW's and you compare them to guys of the past but how are you for sure that the lower weights arent the same?

My point is that maybe in the past Roy Jones is a WW but modern progression made him physically so big that he was a MW on up, just like those huge HW's you named. Maybe Mayweather back in the day was really a 118 pounder......lol
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#4
Old 04-09-2013, 05:29 PM
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Infighting is almost extinct because of the holding which is rarely punished, it is part of the safety first attitude that a lot of fighters have now.
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#5
Old 04-09-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
You would think a 48 year old guy embarrassing all the "modern super athletes" with nothing but skill and ring smarts would convince people that the sport hasn't progressed, and has mostly regressed. Less fighters, less talent, less skills all across the board compared to two decades ago, let alone three or four.

If modern training and technique was making fighters any better, the best fighters in the sport wouldn't be in their mid-thirties and forties, beating the crap out of the young guys.
Maybe the modern training allows older fighters to still physically compete and use their vast experience to beat younger fighters?
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#6
Old 04-09-2013, 05:48 PM
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Yeah but come on. Jason Kidd is a moderately effective player at a 100 year's old and one of the smartest bball iq guys in the league but he's not dominating.
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#7
Old 04-09-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Own3d View Post
Infighting is almost extinct because of the holding which is rarely punished, it is part of the safety first attitude that a lot of fighters have now.
Yeah, refs should start taking points off for holding. 3 strike rule.
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#8
Old 04-09-2013, 06:05 PM
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Evolution really just means the fighters that succeed best today have the abilities that best fit the environment of boxing at the moment.

It doesn't necessarily mean they are better at all than predecessors, evolution never means 'better regardless' it just means better fit with a particular environment at a particular point in history.
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#9
Old 04-09-2013, 06:30 PM
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of course it has evolved.

-It went from how many rounds to 12.
-Glove sizes for certain weight classes
-No more referees as judges
-same day weigh in to one day before the fight (biggest change)
-strength and conditioning coaches werent there before


even something like breathing techniques have changed. You notice how some trainers say breathe through your nose not to your mouth old school pro tip?

that's wrong. You're suppose to breath through your mouth is the modern cross training/marathon pro tip.


Boxing has evolved greatly. Those who say boxing has remained as pure as ever are talking out of their arse.
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#10
Old 04-09-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
You would think a 48 year old guy embarrassing all the "modern super athletes" with nothing but skill and ring smarts would convince people that the sport hasn't progressed, and has mostly regressed. Less fighters, less talent, less skills all across the board compared to two decades ago, let alone three or four.

If modern training and technique was making fighters any better, the best fighters in the sport wouldn't be in their mid-thirties and forties, beating the crap out of the young guys.
But he be fightin average dudes though, this 48 year old you talkin bout. If he fight the best, he won't win. Tarver=One hit wonder, Winky=bloated up MW, Calzaghe beat him, Pavlik=bloated up MW/alcoholic, Dawson beat him, Pascal=worst LHW Ring champion in history, Cloud=lost to Campillo. All of these guys are average at best, except for Winky at 154, and Pavlik at 160. Calzaghe was a little bit above average but a 40 year old washed up, shot to death Roy Jones knocked him down with his wrist, the wrist is weaker than a punch. If Roy had connected with his actual fists, Calzaghe would have been out cold Pacquiao style.
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