Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History
View Poll Results: Did Liston fake his knockdown by Ali?
Yes 15 44.12%
No 19 55.88%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Thread Navigation

#21
Old 04-10-2013, 12:37 AM
Cardinal Buck
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 12 Cardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Cheers to that! - E.P.T. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
He was definitely dropped by a good, hard shot. I still don't understand why things like this aren't resolved. It's so clear on film. It's not whether he got hit and dropped or not, because that is indisputable. He did. It's whether he could have gotten back up, but decided not to.

You can clearly see the punch land very cleanly and obviously very hard as his entire back ripples from the effect of the punch landing.

I think he was dropped hard, but then chose not to get up as he already knew the outcome.
HE DID GET UP! There was no count and he got up and started fighting again. Walcott then stopped it like an idiot. Should've been a DQ or No Contest.
Reply With Quote
Cardinal Buck is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#22
Old 04-10-2013, 12:39 AM
Cardinal Buck
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 12 Cardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Cheers to that! - E.P.T. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyland View Post
The punch was right on the button and the knockdown was for real.

What looked phony to me was Sonny falling over again after he was down
This looked like someone trying to make the effects of the punch look
more damaging than what it was.

Regardless, Sonny did get up and was willing to continue the fight.

Bottom line: real punch, bizarre ending
Thank you. I agree completely. It was bulls hit.
Reply With Quote
Cardinal Buck is offline
#23
Old 04-10-2013, 12:49 AM
elfag
Hawaiian F@g
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,446
Rep Power: 0 elfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these partselfag is infamous around these parts
Points: 1,100,117,735.23
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,100,117,735.23
Default

Liston had known connections to the mob.

Liston was supposed to win the first fight and was so desperate to win he cheated, having his coach put on a substance on his gloves to irritate Ali's eyes.

Liston loses, pissing off the mob who had money on him.

Mob makes him take a dive 2nd fight for pay back.

The fall looks completely fake and he doesnt fall at all but crotches down catching himself with his arms.

Liston dies mysteriously in his 40's, killed by the mob.
Reply With Quote
elfag is offline
#24
Old 04-10-2013, 02:07 AM
Debopam Roy
Contender
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Calcutta
Age: 19
Posts: 116
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 2 Debopam Roy has a spectacular aura aboutDebopam Roy has a spectacular aura about
Points: 10,000,021,861.03
Bank: 50,202,544,900.62
Total Points: 60,202,566,761.65
Default

yes yes, he did 'get up'. But I didnt mean it in that sense. I meant, he 'didnt get up', you understand?
Reply With Quote
Debopam Roy is offline
#25
Old 04-10-2013, 05:17 PM
Bodyshot3
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 837
Rep Power: 8 Bodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond reputeBodyshot3 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,000,041,239.60
Bank: 2,110.70
Total Points: 10,000,043,350.30
Default

@el***

Agreed, Liston had some big-time mob connections (he's mentioned in FBI investigations well before the Ali fight) and any discussion about this fight does at least need to consider the very real possiblity that there was a high degree of criminal involvement.

The mob were not involved in boxing because they liked the sport and wanted champions; what they actually wanted was the colossal money to be made by getting big money put down on a favourite who unexpectedly crashed by a shock stoppage or by placing a huge, colossal late bet on the underdog. Sometimes they did both and doubled-up.

Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo - two hardcore mobsters notorious for fixing boxing matches for over a decade before this fight happened - were known associates of Liston and more than capable of intimidating Sonny into taking a dive. You did not mess these guys, even if you were a heavyweight champ.

The fight was in 1964 - a high point for organised crime in the United States -so it would seem to be naive to think that these guys would have just sat back and allowed things to happen without trying to impose their interests on the situation.
Reply With Quote
Bodyshot3 is offline
#26
Old 06-10-2013, 09:33 AM
Rspen46
Contender
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 128
Rep Power: 0 Rspen46 is an unknown quantity at this point
Points: 3,225.88
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 3,225.88
Default

I believe he took a dive, Ali eventually developed some decent power later in his career but not this early, maybe Liston possibly did the 1st "No Mas" who knows, he was at the end & getting old for boxing, & Ali's style was a pain in the ass for him, so either way, he chose not to get up & finish the fight, the way the Mob was into boxing then, I say maybe a payoff to send 1 champ off into the sunset, while a new money making kid took over the reigns.
Reply With Quote
Rspen46 is offline
#27
Old 06-10-2013, 10:25 AM
AntonTheMeh
NSB, DKSAB....
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: En el Carajo
Posts: 21,962
Rep Power: 60 AntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond reputeAntonTheMeh has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 2,176,383,424.21
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 2,176,383,424.21
That RJJ clip... LMAOOOOO - sweet pea 50 Hard cold cash. - Hard Dick thx man.. - !! AI-Holmes!! Miller Time - !! AI-Holmes!! No Message - Old Coward 
solid posts mate - Alx. have a sneakers homie - Warrios or have a snickers lol - Warrios 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - codey 
Default

i think he did. i mean, he was knocked down, but that wasn't a ktfo kinda punch. dude was rolling around like a upside down turtle for a second. even the crowd could tell which is why they started booing. i still think he would have been humiliated though.
Reply With Quote
AntonTheMeh is offline
#28
Old 06-10-2013, 02:26 PM
Cardinal Buck
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 12 Cardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond reputeCardinal Buck has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,000,046,944.50
Cheers to that! - E.P.T. 
Default

Why did he get up then? By definition, that isn't a dive. If anything, the time keeper was crooked
Reply With Quote
Cardinal Buck is offline
#29
Old 06-11-2013, 01:27 PM
res
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,336
Rep Power: 23 res has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond reputeres has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 107,806,395.78
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 107,806,395.78
Thanks for your help! - Bendigo To the 80's cartoons. - WTFBALLZ 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by antk View Post
There's no dispute that a punch was landed but it was not a knockout punch-certainly not enough to make Liston roll over as if poleaxed.
In 42 fights after Liston, Ali had only 6 KO'S. In his 62 fights he had only one other first round KO (ROBINSON 1-2-0). Ali was not a puncher. The phantom punch was never seen again-either before or after Liston! Liston took a dive!
You combine those stats proving that Ali wasn't a puncher, the fact that Liston had a legendary chin, and the idea of a first round Ko and it just doesn't compute. You'd think that if Ali packed that kind of power he would just koed Floyd Patterson sheerly by accident by the time round 11 had rolled around.
Reply With Quote
res is offline
#30
Old 06-11-2013, 02:08 PM
Scott9945
Gonna be more suspicious
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,390
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 75 Scott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond reputeScott9945 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 11,280,051,307,510.07
Bank: 4,774,594,106,197,382.00
Total Points: 4,785,874,157,504,892.00
not sure if u drink beer so i bought u a pepsi - writeright you're ok with me too bro - Left Hook Tua a bribe for free porn. lol - Left Hook Tua Cheers - T-97 Meant to send this to you earlier but sent to myself by mistake lol. Cheers - joseph5620 
First round on me - mrpain81 8K Posts - T-97 You're killing them in the political debates! lol. - joseph5620 Cheers amigo - anonymousboxing Have a tuna melt homey - mangler 
for being a heavyweight in history section - led top poster - JAB5239 Great poster. - Barnburner Yes lets ban the troll - McGoorty In honor of Joe Frazier - Terry A 
Merry Christmas - The Surgeon good poster - jazluvr thanks for the swift e-points payment - jas one of the great posters in the history forum - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by res View Post
You combine those stats proving that Ali wasn't a puncher, the fact that Liston had a legendary chin, and the idea of a first round Ko and it just doesn't compute. You'd think that if Ali packed that kind of power he would just koed Floyd Patterson sheerly by accident by the time round 11 had rolled around.
Your points are all valid, but it should be noted that Ali carried Patterson that long to punish him for what he considered disrespect to his new religion.
Reply With Quote
Scott9945 is offline
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dive?, sonny

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright 2003-2014 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.