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#1
Old 04-03-2013, 01:45 AM
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Post Comments Thread For: Role Models - The Heart and Soul of Boxing

By Thomas Gerbasi - This shouldn’t be the time to put any pressure on Floyd Mayweather, Robert Guerrero, Saul Alvarez, Austin Trout, Nonito Donaire, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Wladimir Klitschko, or any of the other boxers competing in big fights this spring, but let’s say it anyway. Let’s say that for everyone who steps into a boxing ring, the recent Mike Alvarado vs. Brandon Rios and Timothy Bradley vs. Ruslan Provodnikov bouts should be required viewing.

What happens after that should be a renewed sense of what it means to be a prizefighter, and what it means to go into the ring and deliver a performance that fans will be talking about for weeks, one that will prevent them from going to sleep that night because the adrenalin is still pumping.

That’s what this year’s Fab Four of Alvarado, Rios, Bradley, and Provodnikov gave us. It wasn’t just about the action, the knockdowns and near knockdowns, or the high stakes involved. What we saw over two magnificent Saturday nights in March was the kind of drama Hollywood could never deliver because the silver screen version is just not real.

For Bradley, it was expected that a win over Provodnikov could never lift a profile that hit rock bottom in the dark days following his controversial win over Manny Pacquiao. As for Provodnikov, he was a tough guy, but virtually unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles, and expected to remain there win or lose on March 16.

Two weeks later, Alvarado and Rios would get acquainted again. Their first fight was an instant classic, and instant classics are rarely repeated in the rematch. The hard luck Alvarado had lost the first fight of his career to Rios by way of a referee stoppage some said was too early. But his tendency to eat power shots made most believe that the end would come even quicker the second time around. Rios? He was the guy Cus D’Amato could have prophesized about when he said those who are born round don’t die square. There were no surprises with Rios – he would fight the same way against Alvarado that he did the first time. [Click Here To Read More]
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#2
Old 04-03-2013, 01:59 AM
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Really good read, Top Rank has much more ammo now too. I don't think Crawford would have heard any of those boos if the fight wasn't on that kind of an under card, he straight out boxed Prescott and even took it to him towards the end. I think we have a new talent in the 140 division, if he intends to stay there.
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#3
Old 04-03-2013, 05:40 AM
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No no no
I enjoyed watching it but Bradley should never have been in the kind of fight he was in and never should again. Unless he wants to get to know that brain specialist he's having to go and see a whole lot better...

And even intimating that maybe mayweather should be doing something like getting, fook right off out of here, the totally one dimensional gatti was completely and utterly shown up by mayweather. All due respect to the guy but all his eggs were in the one basket - mental strength, but no mental versatility nor real intelligence, understanding of the sport, got schooled by someone who could told outclass him and made a mockery of that one single area of speciality.

Don't get me started on Ríos. Provodnikov? What the guy who's trainer has Parkinson's and was thinking for most of the Bradley fight that he should be pulling his fighter out for constantly walking into too many punches? Erm no again.
Why don't you just set up 12 round championship head butting contests where two guys repeatedly headbutt each other and nothing else, if that the kind of stupid aggression and "toughness" you wanna see


Boxing is an extremely intelligent sport and yeah once in a while it certainly is damn exciting and impressive to see the warrior coming through in boxers but no way should that be the first resource turned to otherwise every one of them shall end up punch drunk or worse and the sport will have descended into elite bar room brawling.

You talk of acting like heroes. Again picking out only a single, and the least intelligent trait of heroism. There is so much more to being a hero than that. Yes it is important to have an element of that but it sells the sport if boxing very short and justifies all the negative press that boxing receives if that's where we wish to concentrate.
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#4
Old 04-03-2013, 05:55 AM
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Excellent article.
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#5
Old 04-03-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frosty-g View Post

Don't get me started on Ríos. Provodnikov? What the guy who's trainer has Parkinson's and was thinking for most of the Bradley fight that he should be pulling his fighter out for constantly walking into too many punches? Erm no again.
Why don't you just set up 12 round championship head butting contests where two guys repeatedly headbutt each other and nothing else, if that the kind of stupid aggression and "toughness" you wanna see


Boxing is an extremely intelligent sport and yeah once in a while it certainly is damn exciting and impressive to see the warrior coming through in boxers but no way should that be the first resource turned to otherwise every one of them shall end up punch drunk or worse and the sport will have descended into elite bar room brawling.
I always find this to be a very silly, almost delusional argument. Yes boxing is a very intelligent, highly technical, and tactical sport. But it is still a sport where guys are getting their brains rattled around their skulls by professional punchers.

It is a brutal, savage sport, and the attempts by some to intellectualise it in a manner that allows them to snobbishly look down on brawlers as uncouth and unsophisticated is laughably hypocritical in a sport where guys are smashing each other in the face with punches. It's like someone who watches dog fighting claiming that its the killing technique of the well trained dog that appeals to them, as if that somehow shields them from the brutality of what's going on.

Jimmy Tobin at Esquina Boxeo wrote a wonderful article on this topic recently, with this excerpt being particularly relevant:

Quote:
In appraising a fight aesthetically, one glorifies violence and its consequences. The language of aesthetics is supposed to insulate the appraiser from facing this reality by misleading him into thinking that it is with a higher, more refined perspective that he enjoys watching men stun each other’s brains. But the lens does not mitigate the brutality of the event. Moreover, the most brutal affairs are often attributed the greatest aesthetic value.

The savage first fight between Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward, for example, is spoken of in reverential tones even though boxing artistry was neither man’s currency. The technical analyst thinks he interprets the painful physicality from a distance as well. Here a broken nose is the product of positioning, or timing, or capitalizing on mistakes. There is truth in these observations: boxers do strategize. But the analyst, however he tries to intellectualize the contest, is still guided in his observations by interest in a fundamentally cruel sport.

http://esquinaboxeo.com/english/pain...ng-and-cruelty
There is a wonderful artistry to boxing. But let's not go fooling ourselves about what the sport is. It's two men punching each other in the face for our entertainment. That is the sport's undeniable truth. Appreciating that artistry and the complexity of the sport should always be encouraged, but the pious condemnation of wilder affairs that often goes with it is utterly ridiculous, it's self-deception and pomposity in its truest form.
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#6
Old 04-03-2013, 07:15 AM
zzat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frosty-g View Post
No no no
I enjoyed watching it but Bradley should never have been in the kind of fight he was in and never should again. Unless he wants to get to know that brain specialist he's having to go and see a whole lot better...

And even intimating that maybe mayweather should be doing something like getting, fook right off out of here, the totally one dimensional gatti was completely and utterly shown up by mayweather. All due respect to the guy but all his eggs were in the one basket - mental strength, but no mental versatility nor real intelligence, understanding of the sport, got schooled by someone who could told outclass him and made a mockery of that one single area of speciality.

Don't get me started on Ríos. Provodnikov? What the guy who's trainer has Parkinson's and was thinking for most of the Bradley fight that he should be pulling his fighter out for constantly walking into too many punches? Erm no again.
Why don't you just set up 12 round championship head butting contests where two guys repeatedly headbutt each other and nothing else, if that the kind of stupid aggression and "toughness" you wanna see


Boxing is an extremely intelligent sport and yeah once in a while it certainly is damn exciting and impressive to see the warrior coming through in boxers but no way should that be the first resource turned to otherwise every one of them shall end up punch drunk or worse and the sport will have descended into elite bar room brawling.

You talk of acting like heroes. Again picking out only a single, and the least intelligent trait of heroism. There is so much more to being a hero than that. Yes it is important to have an element of that but it sells the sport if boxing very short and justifies all the negative press that boxing receives if that's where we wish to concentrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rumack View Post
I always find this to be a very silly, almost delusional argument. Yes boxing is a very intelligent, highly technical, and tactical sport. But it is still a sport where guys are getting their brains rattled around their skulls by professional punchers.

It is a brutal, savage sport, and the attempts by some to intellectualise it in a manner that allows them to snobbishly look down on brawlers as uncouth and unsophisticated is laughably hypocritical in a sport where guys are smashing each other in the face with punches. It's like someone who watches dog fighting claiming that its the killing technique of the well trained dog that appeals to them, as if that somehow shields them from the brutality of what's going on.

Jimmy Tobin at Esquina Boxeo wrote a wonderful article on this topic recently, with this excerpt being particularly relevant:



There is a wonderful artistry to boxing. But let's not go fooling ourselves about what the sport is. It's two men punching each other in the face for our entertainment. That is the sport's undeniable truth. Appreciating that artistry and the complexity of the sport should always be encouraged, but the pious condemnation of wilder affairs that often goes with it is utterly ridiculous, it's self-deception and pomposity in its truest form.
Two well written and very good posts - it's rare on these blogs. Both you guys are spot on...
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#7
Old 04-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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Default Thomas gerbasi is a neanderthal!!!

This has got to be one of the most idiotic articles I have ever read. For someone who writes on boxing to be promoting cave-men fights, it just says a lot about you.
The two fighters that you are celebrating here, Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales were both DESTROYED by Floyd Mayweather. None of them won even a single minute of any round. Not one!!

Now you are suggesting to us that these are the two guys that make boxing exciting. That they make us look at them as heroes. What kind of logic is that?
The other boxer-brawler you celebrate again is Juan Manuel Marquez who was also beaten by Floyd in another very lopsided unanimous 12 round decision. AGAIN, HE DID NOT EVEN WIN A SINGLE MINUTE OF ANY ROUND!!!!

You and I and any boxing fan knows that if Alvarado or Rios or Bradley were to ever fight Floyd, they would all get destroyed yet you are here spewing all these garbage talk about heroism and iron will that suggests they are better fighters than pure boxers like Floyd.

You are either drunk or just a buffoon but I think you are just someone who is paid to come write idiotic stuff like this so that you can generate reader outrage and in response generate thousands of response from disgruntled readers like myself. And you have succeeded.
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#8
Old 04-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzembe View Post
This has got to be one of the most idiotic articles I have ever read. For someone who writes on boxing to be promoting cave-men fights, it just says a lot about you.
The two fighters that you are celebrating here, Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales were both DESTROYED by Floyd Mayweather. None of them won even a single minute of any round. Not one!!

Now you are suggesting to us that these are the two guys that make boxing exciting. That they make us look at them as heroes. What kind of logic is that?
The other boxer-brawler you celebrate again is Juan Manuel Marquez who was also beaten by Floyd in another very lopsided unanimous 12 round decision. AGAIN, HE DID NOT EVEN WIN A SINGLE MINUTE OF ANY ROUND!!!!

You and I and any boxing fan knows that if Alvarado or Rios or Bradley were to ever fight Floyd, they would all get destroyed yet you are here spewing all these garbage talk about heroism and iron will that suggests they are better fighters than pure boxers like Floyd.

You are either drunk or just a buffoon but I think you are just someone who is paid to come write idiotic stuff like this so that you can generate reader outrage and in response generate thousands of response from disgruntled readers like myself. And you have succeeded.
Yeah, maybe your rant would make sense if the writer implied the lies you bolded. He gave props to the exciting warriors present and past. He didn't not once ever say any could beat Floyd so seems like you went on raging about stuff you made up.
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#9
Old 04-03-2013, 12:13 PM
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There is nothing cool about not being able to walk or talk when youre old. All those fighters are taking years off their lives fighting like that. The fans and writers won't give two ****s about them when they are gone. It's disgusting to encourage them to kill each other. Rios and Alvarado won't be competing at a top level for very long because of what they did to each other and their styles.
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#10
Old 04-03-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frosty-g View Post
No no no
I enjoyed watching it but Bradley should never have been in the kind of fight he was in and never should again. Unless he wants to get to know that brain specialist he's having to go and see a whole lot better...
And even intimating that maybe mayweather should be doing something like getting, fook right off out of here, the totally one dimensional gatti was completely and utterly shown up by mayweather. All due respect to the guy but all his eggs were in the one basket - mental strength, but no mental versatility nor real intelligence, understanding of the sport, got schooled by someone who could told outclass him and made a mockery of that one single area of speciality.
Don't get me started on Ríos. Provodnikov? What the guy who's trainer has Parkinson's and was thinking for most of the Bradley fight that he should be pulling his fighter out for constantly walking into too many punches? Erm no again.
Why don't you just set up 12 round championship head butting contests where two guys repeatedly headbutt each other and nothing else, if that the kind of stupid aggression and "toughness" you wanna see
Boxing is an extremely intelligent sport and yeah once in a while it certainly is damn exciting and impressive to see the warrior coming through in boxers but no way should that be the first resource turned to otherwise every one of them shall end up punch drunk or worse and the sport will have descended into elite bar room brawling.
You talk of acting like heroes. Again picking out only a single, and the least intelligent trait of heroism. There is so much more to being a hero than that. Yes it is important to have an element of that but it sells the sport if boxing very short and justifies all the negative press that boxing receives if that's where we wish to concentrate.
My thoughts and sentiments exactly, thanks for putting it so well.
I don't for the life of me understand why some would favor fights with nothing to show in terms of boxing/ring intelligence and thought. Such fights are just mindless and unintelligent, and do not do justice to the sweet science of boxing.
In fact, "fighters" in such fights devoid of the beatiful art of defence, are the human equivalent of animals/c0cks fighting, with some pathetic human beings placing bets to see them fight to the death. No difference. at all, IMHO.
P34c3

Last edited by duwdu; 04-03-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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